Jump to content

Trudeau vows help after Indigenous kids' unmarked graves found, but offers no details


Recommended Posts

On 6/30/2021 at 9:58 PM, dialamah said:

So a year or three ago, Argus posted an article about the fact that both liberals/progressives and conservatives have a valuable role to play in society, in it's shaping.  I agree with that, to be honest.   To me, the argument isn't (or shouldn't be) that the "other side" is evil and "hates" or "dislikes" our country and have their head up their ass, the argument should be how can accurately assess who has the best ideas and how can bring those ideas to fruition.

 

Right now there is no conversation going back and forth, both sides do not want to hear what the other has to say, Thats how divided we have become and without conversation things are only going to get worse.  So right now all sides have their heads up their asses, and some are taking advantage of that to promote their own message..

It takes leadership with strong morals and values and a shit ton of intelligence to pick out the the best of what is being offered and then take some form of action, not by themselves but to include the opposition so something viable can come of it.. That has not happened in a long time...  

Quote

My opinion is that the trauma suffered by our ancestor's attempts to 'civilize' them for their own good is trauma passed down through generations.   The fact that until the 50's they had to ask permission attend university, and could only do so if they agreed to essentially renounce their family, roots and culture or that until 2014, they had to get a special permit in order to sell anything off-reserve matters.  And, how many years has Canada ignored the fact that many reserves don't have clean drinking water?  Children raised in institutions had no way of learning proper parenting skills, and so they abused their own children, who grew up to abuse their kids.  Alcohol/drugs to kill the pain of losing their culture, rejected by both their society and the white society, stuck in no-man's land. My opinion is that in order to help Indigenous people leave poverty behind, we have to acknowledge what happened, stop telling them what they need to do to 'heal' and listen to what they tell us they need.

First nations people have long been forgotten by the government and it's people, they have special status, they are given benefits that no other is entitled, and this sets them and us up for division, they are not on the same team, that and they are continuedly reminding us of that fact be it blocking railroads, highways, bridges etc...They somehow think they are Canada and we are just visitors. Both sides need conversation and compromise if not we will see the same thing in 100 years..

Some of these problems you high light i don't see as Canadian problems but rather first nations, some one needs to step up and say some of my problems i have caused and are not the fault of Canadians. Many people who have been abused learn from that experience and don't abuse their kids, it is a personal decision, along with taking drugs, or drinking, or poverty... it is a choice, just as it is a choice to leave it all behind.. Lots of First Nations people have become very successful in life though hard work and education they have been able to leave that life style. And without acknowledging that they will always think there is no way out.. stop whining and do something productive.   

Quote

 think the problem here is that you are so busy dismissing progressives that you aren't actually hearing what they say.   Certainly some progressives aren't deep thinkers; that's true of some conservatives.  On the other hand, many people do think pretty deeply about various issues and do have valuable things to say, even if it doesn't reflect one's own opinion. 

I have had my mind changed on this forum hundreds of times, by doing just that listening and doing some research, in fact you have changed my mind of many of things or atleast soften my  believe. I've asked dozens of liberal/ NDP/Green voters Why the vote as they do, many say, considering the alternative the conservatives no way... thats deep thinking, thats actually liberal propaganda, and I've said this a million times they have a brilliant PR guy or gal, as they think they will get the plague if they voted Conservative...or even think of a conservative idea.. And yet they can dismiss all the scandals, lies, and out right breaking the law, and policies as they see fit with no consequences at all. 

Tell me is it deep thinking when some progressives thought it would be cool to turn the gender theories upside down, and with out one shred of science boom we now have almost 75 different genders.. I could give you a long list of progressive thinking.

Quote

The indigenous have been dealt a shitty hand - by Canadian institutions - for over a hundred years.  That is why so many remain in poverty.   It's not a "choice" they made; it's a choice we - white society - made for them.  That our ancestors may have been well-intentioned doesn't mean we get to just slough off what happened, blame them for their pain that continues and expect them to thank us for saving them from "savagery".  

This is bullshit, Is there an active campaign in Canada to prevent Native Americans , from getting an education, from starting a business, to keeping them on the reserves...Ya they were dealt a shitty hand, almost everyone in poor class is, black, white, purple with warts on their " you know what" but nobody is saying you cannot change classes, open up opportunities to climb out. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

1.  Right now there is no conversation going back and forth, both sides do not want to hear what the other has to say, Thats how divided we have become and without conversation things are only going to get worse.  So right now all sides have their heads up their asses, and some are taking advantage of that to promote their own message..

2.  It takes leadership with strong morals and values and a shit ton of intelligence to pick out the the best of what is being offered and then take some form of action, not by themselves but to include the opposition so something viable can come of it.. That has not happened in a long time...  

1.  I think there are people trying to have these conversations, but they are too often drowned out by less reasonable voices.

2.  I agree.

9 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Tell me is it deep thinking when some progressives thought it would be cool to turn the gender theories upside down, and with out one shred of science boom we now have almost 75 different genders.. I could give you a long list of progressive thinking.

Maybe it was kids attempting or committing suicide because they felt trapped in the wrong body that made someone (who knows if they were progressive or not when they carried out the research) to take a closer look at gender identity?   I don't necessarily agree that we need 75 "different genders" named, but I do believe that gender and sexuality are on a spectrum; some people are noticeably more masculine or feminine than other individuals of their gender.  It's not like somebody woke up one morning, and decided "Let's just turn gender theories upside down" (cue rubbing of hands and evil laugh). 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

This is bullshit, Is there an active campaign in Canada to prevent Native Americans , from getting an education, from starting a business, to keeping them on the reserves

I don't know about now, but there certainly was as recently as the 1980s.  Why else would they be required to obtain a permit from the government to sell stuff off their reserve?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

I don't know about now, but there certainly was as recently as the 1980s.  Why else would they be required to obtain a permit from the government to sell stuff off their reserve?

Maybe had something to do with the contraband cigarettes?   On reserve benefits mean exactly that.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Maybe had something to do with the contraband cigarettes?   

Nope.

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

On reserve benefits mean exactly that

Ok.  You only get your medical and pension paid if you never leave your neighborhood.  Sound fair?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have all those burned churches been Catholic churches? At least that is the impression I get from the news.

If that is the case one can admire how theologically knowledgeable the vandals have been.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I've said before about these 'unmarked graves' that were suddenly 'discovered'...

“There’s no discovery, we knew it was there, it’s a graveyard,” Pierre said. “The fact there are graves inside a graveyard shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.”

According to Pierre, wooden crosses that originally marked the gravesites had been burned or deteriorated over the years.  Using a wooden marker at a gravesite remains a practice that continues to this day in many Indigenous communities across Canada.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7996606/cranbrook-residential-school-graves-chief/

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

1.  I think there are people trying to have these conversations, but they are too often drowned out by less reasonable voices.

2.  I agree.

Maybe it was kids attempting or committing suicide because they felt trapped in the wrong body that made someone (who knows if they were progressive or not when they carried out the research) to take a closer look at gender identity?   I don't necessarily agree that we need 75 "different genders" named, but I do believe that gender and sexuality are on a spectrum; some people are noticeably more masculine or feminine than other individuals of their gender.  It's not like somebody woke up one morning, and decided "Let's just turn gender theories upside down" (cue rubbing of hands and evil laugh). 

 

 

1. I really hope ther4e is, but i don't think it is the people who are making decisions.

2. I think there is someone out there fitting that description, but they are employed in other jobs, that pay more..

3. Someone put a lot of thought into it, and without any of it backed up by science or facts people eat that up and now it is being taught in our schools, why,? someone preached loud enough , often enough that it is acceptable now... Special interest groups are doing this across a wide spectrum.. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

I don't know about now, but there certainly was as recently as the 1980s.  Why else would they be required to obtain a permit from the government to sell stuff off their reserve?

I can't say for sure, but any goods bought and delivered to the reserve are considered tax free... And you know the government they want there dime. I am pretty sure there was no cruel intent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Nope.

Ok.  You only get your medical and pension paid if you never leave your neighborhood.  Sound fair?

Life is not fair, being in the military has taught me that, some of my comrades are still fighting the government in courts for medical benefits available to most Canadians and despite everyone knowing that, nothing is being done...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

Nope.

Ok.  You only get your medical and pension paid if you never leave your neighborhood.  Sound fair?

First off, medical and education are covered everywhere without taxation for income earned on reserve.  You can’t expect to smuggle cigarettes, booze, guns, and whatever else tax-free and sell it off reserve, or can you?  I know non-Indigenous go on reserve for cheap gas and gambling. Sweet deal for Indigenous.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, dialamah said:

I don't know about now, but there certainly was as recently as the 1980s.  Why else would they be required to obtain a permit from the government to sell stuff off their reserve?

You see, if you introduce pumpkinseed (fish) into a lake, the chances are , a lot of the native fish in the lake will suffer or even disappear completely.

The situation with the indigenous people and Europeans is not any different.  You can offer the indigenous people the same conditions to start a business, the same environment and same everything - it may not work for them. They lived in a world where there were no businesses to begin with.   There was no land ownership and buy this and buy that.

Now we have the "reserves", aptly named to allow the endangered First Nations survive and in addition they get other benefits too.  Kind of like what you would do for any endangered animal species.

The falsehood comes from the notion that everyone is equal and that everyone should have equal rights.  Obviously when you do that, some "minorities" will not survive.

Then supposedly we should not discriminate against other people of color, but the government has already legitimized that by treating all First Nations differently and giving them a different set of rights.

There is no fixing our messed up system.  Maybe I could fix it, if I could pass laws and everyone would follow them, but the way things are.......

A Queen Elizabeth II statue was removed today.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No genocide was committed and no proof of murder exists for any of the dead in these graveyards.  These are media events choreographed for the main purpose of disparaging Canada, extracting more money from taxpayers, and making Canadians who didn’t start residential schools feel badly about themselves.  Anti-Canadian vandals are destroying the country and must be stopped or our leaders must be sent packing.  Violence is being permitted and property is being destroyed without consequence.  Acts of hate against religious groups are being overlooked.  What are the police doing to stop this?  What are our governments doing to end this?  It appears that nothing is sacred.  Religious symbols are desecrated.  Images of our head of state are openly toppled.  
https://apple.news/Aw9Q1KOcrSlm0zvHLz3dAtQ

https://apple.news/AjtiapemYQLK9zec2rqvImg

Edited by Zeitgeist
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I suspect China using covert psy-ops to undermine Canadian society. It is their trademark.

Yes, but I also think this is what happens when you grant special status and entitlements to certain groups.  Really the option to privatize reserves should be available to all bands.  “Indian” or “Métis” status should be grandfathered and ended, because it grants privileges such as free higher education and not having to pay taxes for no other reason than ethnicity.  Only in parts of the far north and remote locations are some Indigenous living an authentic non-western lifestyle, but probably not even then.  I realize that we are stuck with this mess because any decisions that come from non-Indigenous, even if they’re the ones footing the bill for all health, education, and infrastructure, will be deemed colonial.  It’s a no win.  The best course of action is simply to maintain current levels of spending that rise with inflation, let Indigenous make any land claims that they think the can argue run through the courts, and try to provide fair and accurate accounts of what really happened.  There was no genocide.  Public education was and is a progressive idea.  Our political leaders must defend Canada and its institutions or be kicked out of office.  I hope the Canadian public understand what’s at stake.  I’m not sure.  Lots of ignorance and complaisance out there.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes, but I also think this is what happens when you grant special status and entitlements to certain groups.  Really the option to privatize reserves should be available to all bands.  “Indian” or “Métis” status should be grandfathered and ended, because it grants privileges such as free higher education and not having to pay taxes for no other reason than ethnicity.  Only in parts of the far north and remote locations are some Indigenous living an authentic non-western lifestyle, but probably not even then.  I realize that we are stuck with this mess because any decisions that come from non-Indigenous, even if they’re the ones footing the bill for all health, education, and infrastructure, will be deemed colonial.  It’s a no win.  The best course of action is simply to maintain current levels of spending that rise with inflation, let Indigenous make any land claims that they think the can argue run through the courts, and try to provide fair and accurate accounts of what really happened.  There was no genocide.  Public education was and is a progressive idea.  Our political leaders must defend Canada and its institutions or be kicked out of office.  I hope the Canadian public understand what’s at stake.  I’m not sure.  Lots of ignorance and complaisance out there.  

Ok, very reasonable.

Here is a general observation-

Mr. Trudeau : "What Canada has done in the past is bad. We must all acknowledge the failures of Canada's past."

The former Canada, not a good country. We are a racist country... systemically. No one cares to mention the man's father was also a former PM for many years, and had the opportunity to make things right then.

Mr. Trudeau: "I admire China for their basic dictatorship".

Yes... very basic. As in direct. Succinct. No bending of the government's will.

As in brutal.

Like one who smashes insects

with a hammer

Edited by OftenWrong
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Canadians like me who had nothing whatsoever to do with this mess have already contributed $3.3B to families and "survivors". No more public money is necessary.

I went to school too. I was smacked with a ruler. I was cuffed in the head. I was strapped. I was kicked in the shin. I'm talking public school in the 1960's and 70's with nothing but caucasian kids in the class. Am a I "survivor" as well?

Edited by RedDog
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, RedDog said:

Canadians like me who had nothing whatsoever to do with this mess have already contributed $3.3B to families and "survivors". No more public money is necessary.

I went to school too. I was smacked with a ruler. I was cuffed in the head. I was strapped. I was kicked in the shin. I'm talking public school in the 1960's and 70's with nothing but caucasian kids in the class. Am a I "survivor" as well?

We’re all survivors of residential schools in a way.  Indigenous are just calling it out.  Fine, where to from here?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

We’re all survivors of residential schools in a way.  Indigenous are just calling it out.  Fine, where to from here?

I have no complaints about my government residential education at the RCR Battleschool

best education a boy could ever have

of course,  at the time we were fighting against the Communists who have taken over in Ottawa now

we were the best small army in the world

vigilamus pro te

 

Edited by Dougie93
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/4/2021 at 9:46 AM, RedDog said:

Am a I "survivor" as well?

Depends.  Do you remember any of your school mates dying and disappearing for unexplained reasons or seen any of them being buried in the back yard?

I got the ruler treatment too.  I had a custodian grab me by my neck till I screamed with pain (and this one was for just running up a staircase).  Got hit by a car after my grade 3 teacher yelled at me and asked me to show up in class ASAP. (I had forgotten about a special event).  Only my arm got broken, fortunately.  There is probably more.  But I will not call myself a survivor.  

Yesterday I am listening to some "scarred" 34 year old Afghan veteran who retired at 27 because of too much stress.

Many of us will work past 65 , handle even more stress over the course of time and never complain.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/4/2021 at 9:46 AM, RedDog said:

Canadians like me who had nothing whatsoever to do with this mess have already contributed $3.3B to families and "survivors". No more public money is necessary.

I went to school too. I was smacked with a ruler. I was cuffed in the head. I was strapped. I was kicked in the shin. I'm talking public school in the 1960's and 70's with nothing but caucasian kids in the class. Am a I "survivor" as well?

No. You're just ignorant.

Were you ripped away from your parents, never to see them again, with your native language beaten out of you, and did you watch some of the people who looked like you, never experience adulthood?

Canada's system broke generations of people.

The first step towards fixing this situation is to listen, learn, and acknowledge what really happened, before coming to coclusions:

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, marcus said:

No. You're just ignorant.

Were you ripped away from your parents, never to see them again, with your native language beaten out of you, and did you watch some of the people who looked like you, never experience adulthood?

Death was a familiar visitor for almost all families during this time. And while some native kids were indeed forced to go to residential schools, the great majority returned home again. No need to overly dramatize. 

 

Edited by Argus
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, cougar said:

Depends.  Do you remember any of your school mates dying and disappearing for unexplained reasons or seen any of them being buried in the back yard?

I got the ruler treatment too.  I had a custodian grab me by my neck till I screamed with pain (and this one was for just running up a staircase).  Got hit by a car after my grade 3 teacher yelled at me and asked me to show up in class ASAP. (I had forgotten about a special event).  Only my arm got broken, fortunately.  There is probably more.  But I will not call myself a survivor.  

Yesterday I am listening to some "scarred" 34 year old Afghan veteran who retired at 27 because of too much stress.

Many of us will work past 65 , handle even more stress over the course of time and never complain.  

“Do you remember any of your schoolmates dying” and “seen any of them being buried in the backyard”.  These and other comments are so irresponsible.  You want to believe that murder of Indigenous by school authorities was rampant when there’s no evidence presented of even one such incident.  Your comments are irresponsible.  You want to get an anti-Canada bandwagon going, clearly, but comments like these just confirm how sensationalized and misleading the child graveyard and other residential school headlines really are.  I’d expect to find at least a few examples of murder because murder happens in all circles on at least a minute level, yet you can’t produce evidence of one in residential schools.   It undermines your credibility.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Tell a friend

    Love Repolitics.com - Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      10,714
    • Most Online
      1,403

    Newest Member
    wopsas
    Joined
  • Recent Achievements

    • Jeary earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Venandi went up a rank
      Apprentice
    • Gaétan earned a badge
      Very Popular
    • Dictatords earned a badge
      First Post
    • babetteteets earned a badge
      One Year In
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...