Trudeau vows help after Indigenous kids' unmarked graves found, but offers no details

[WestCanMan]

32 minutes ago, dialamah said:

The screaming seems to be coming from the far-right.  The rest of Canada is grieving.

And why shouldn't we?  We're better than we were back then, aren't we?  Why wouldn't better people, a better and more civilized society, grieve the abuse and death of children for political expediency and religious fervor?  It baffles me why some people are so wrought up about that.  

Every reasonable person is grieving the fact that small children died so far away from home. It's gut-wrenching to think about a 6 yr old child on their deathbed who hasn't seen their mom for... an hour? A day? God forbid a week or a month.... I would think that in a lot of instances it was a week or more, and that for those children, sadness and desolation must have made the difference between living and dying.  

It's unbearable for some people to think about kids not being buried where they normally would, but that's a distant second for me.

But that's not how this story is presented. 

This story is presented as "evidence of a mass murder, which is part of a genocide, until proven otherwise".

The truth is that 1) there's a very sad story to be told here, 2) there were likely several people who were taking care of those children who knew more grief every single second for years than you'll feel for those kids in your entire lifetime.

Just think about it. A lot of the people who choose childcare as a profession actually like children. SHOCKER! They don't usually take war veterans with PTSD or ex-convicts and put them in charge of orphanages, just so ya know. 

This could be a case where the adults in charge of that school were sick and dying as well as the kids. You just don't know, do you dialamah? But hey, don't let that stop you from assuming the worst, or slandering people, because that's just your own nature. 

Our media is just disgusting. 

Here's a story from CTV that discusses the topic in depth and doesn't mention A SIGNLE CAUSE OF DEATH in any residential school, ever. No stats on how many children died of different causes, nothing.  https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/delicate-sensitive-process-expert-talks-on-searching-for-burial-sites-with-radar-1.5450922

They're not treating these children as children, they're treating them as pawns in la turd's anti-Canada virtue signalling campaign. Singh is out there blubbering and blowing snot bubbles because he can't afford to miss the bus. No one in the media is talking about what likely happened, and that's called "ignoring the elephant in the room". What you need to ask yourself is: "Why doesn't the media ask the most obvious questions? Why do they leave us to assume the worst?" Hmmmmmmmm. 

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

God forbid a week or a month.... I would think that in a lot of instances it was a week or more,

Try from the time they are toddlers until they are teenagers.  They were taken from their homes, driven or flown 100s of miles away so even if they escaped the school, they'd never make it back home - many died trying.  They had their hair cut, their clothing taken, given a number in place of their name, were punished for speaking their language, told they were dirty, starved, beaten and sexually abused. 

They would have been thrilled to see their family every week or month or even every year.  

Here's just a bit of one person's experience.  13 minutes to understand just how wrong your statement is.

[Dougie93]

6 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Here's the scene from the movie. It's a pretty decent one by today's standards.

Side note: I always feel like 'fix bayonets' is a uniquely awful command to hear.

The age old equivalent would be something like 'hold the line', but it was normal back then. Modern soldiers don't expect to smell the breath of the person they're killing.

my Canadian uncle fought in that battle, or rather flew in that battle, as a helicopter pilot

he was turned down by the RCAF, so he went to America and joined the US Army

1st Cavalry Division ( Airmobile ) at the Ia Drang Valley, Landing Zone X-Ray & Landing Zone Albany, 1965

the lament 'Sgt. MacKenize' however, is about Charles Stuart MacKenzie of the Seaforth Highlanders in the Great War

[Dougie93]

8 hours ago, dialamah said:

The screaming seems to be coming from the far-right.  The rest of Canada is grieving.

the "rest of Canada" are the far left then

those who put on airs as if they are grieving for people they didn't know from a hundred years ago

are obviously being phonies, fake, lying 

what you leftists call the "far right", is just normal people getting on with their lives

Edited June 4, 2021 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

I just did a quick unscientific poll

I went to the gas station, the convenience store & McDonald's

I polled people I met there

asked them if they were "grieving about the residential school mass graves in Kamloops ?"

far from "grieving", none of them had even heard about it

they asked me what this was about

I said some far leftist lunatic on the internet claims that "all of Canada is grieving about it"

so I'm checking to see if that's true

they just laughed

then I told them that according to this leftist lunatic, if they weren't "grieving" about it ?

that's puts them on the "far right"

they just rolled their eyes

Edited June 4, 2021 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

Quote

 

Chinese media see a propaganda opportunity in 215 children’s graves

But China is not the first country with an abysmal rights record to deflect rebukes from Canada by citing treatment of this country's Indigenous people

For many Canadians, the discovery of 215 unmarked graves at a former B.C. residential school was a shocking reminder of a system designed to forcibly assimilate First Nations children.

For China’s English-language media, it appears to have also been a prime propaganda opportunity.

Major Chinese news outlets published editorials both decrying residential schools, and asserting that Canada had no right criticizing other countries’ human-rights records until it “put its own house in order.”

There’s even a term for the rhetorical technique — whataboutism.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/unfit-to-preach-residential-school-graves-show-canada-has-no-right-to-criticize-others-chinese-media-say

 

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

7 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Our media is just disgusting. 

it's hardly limited to the media

this is the entire ruling class in Canada

this is all of government, political parties, public education, and corporations

at some point, you have to concede that there is no Canada which exists outside of this ideology

if you don't follow the ideologies of the far left, you're not even Canadian anymore

not that I mind, "Canada" is an embarrassment, international laughing stock, please do disavow me, "Canada"

 

[WestCanMan]

8 hours ago, dialamah said:

Try from the time they are toddlers until they are teenagers.  They were taken from their homes, driven or flown 100s of miles away so even if they escaped the school, they'd never make it back home - many died trying.  They had their hair cut, their clothing taken, given a number in place of their name, were punished for speaking their language, told they were dirty, starved, beaten and sexually abused. 

They would have been thrilled to see their family every week or month or even every year.  

Here's just a bit of one person's experience.  13 minutes to understand just how wrong your statement is.

Remember this school was in Kamloops, which is in a heavily populated area, so it's not as if every kid who went there was from 2,000 miles away. A lot of their families would have lived well within a day's journey. 

[WestCanMan]

It's weird how carefully scripted this whole media event actually is.

Everywhere that we see this story covered, in print or on air, they're always careful to steer the story away from the obvious question: "How is it possible that kids were dying at their school?" because they know that in order for the story to keep building momentum, they need people to have the murder angle looming large in the background. 

They're careful not to mention murder when they talk about those bodies, because it opens up that whole subject, but then they switch away to the story about people who were murdered, and that's their 'in'. 

This 'discovery' is being used to build up focus on Trudeau's shiny new virtue signalling campaign and nothing else. It has replaced covid as the new drug of choice to hook the stupid viewers who are experiencing covid withdrawal. 

[Dougie93]

51 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

It's weird how carefully scripted this whole media event actually is. 

that only works on totally Ameicanized Canadians

the Canadian media has simply become the farm team for the American media, which has gone Woke

so really this is just layering American Wokeness on top of a Canadian paradigm

if you are British North American however, you know Canada is a not a republic, so Kamloops is not your problem

Queen Elizabeth rules it, Queen Elizabeth owns it, everything in Canada is the responsibility of the Crown

I am not the Crown, you are not the Crown, so technically neither you nor I ever gassed any Indians

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Remember this school was in Kamloops, which is in a heavily populated area, so it's not as if every kid who went there was from 2,000 miles away. A lot of their families would have lived well within a day's journey. 

Here's how Sir John A viewed the necessity of keeping these kids from their families:

Indian children should be withdrawn as much as possible from the parental influence, and the only way to do that would be to put them in central training industrial schools where they will acquire the habits and modes of thought of white men.”

If these kids were among the day scholars, or saw their family every week or even month, they would not have been tossed into unmarked graves. 

If your kid didn't arrive home for their regularly scheduled visit, you'd notice and go looking.  But if you didn't know where your kid was, and did not know when you'd see them, then you'd not be surprised when they didn't show up.  That made it easy for the authorities to simply bury these kids when they died - no need to notify family, or send the body home; the family would just never know what happened.

[Dougie93]

one is only subject to this sort of emotional blackmail if one feels guilty about something

so the absurd leftist fops are able to leverage the white guilt Liberals with it

doesn't work on me tho, I don't cry for Indians, they are not my people

they themselves say they are not my people, they themselves say they are sovereign states

so whatever, if they want to go war with Canada about this, go right ahead, I won't stop them

other than that tho, I am not the British Crown, so this is not my problem

if I can live with Canada gassing 22,000 children in the concentration camps of the Boer War ?

I can live with this easily, Canada is not a moral crusade and never was

if the South African Boer are want to take it up with the Crown of Canada, be my guest

Edited June 4, 2021 by Dougie93

[dialamah]

57 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Everywhere that we see this story covered, in print or on air, they're always careful to steer the story away from the obvious question: "How is it possible that kids were dying at their school?" because they know that in order for the story to keep building momentum, they need people to have the murder angle looming large in the background. 

Residential school students were subject to physical and sexual abuse by staff, were often malnourished or underfed, and lived in poor housing conditions that threatened their safety, according to the TRC reports. Infectious diseases like tuberculosis and influenza often ran rampant among the students, leading to many deaths.

Indigenous children in residential schools died at far higher rates than other Canadian children, even for the time, the report notes.

Why are you so eager to write this story off as nothing more than an overblown media story to make Trudeau look good?  Maybe it's because none of the kids in your family have been taken involuntarily from their homes, dumped into an institution, abused to the point of death, and all of that ignored for decades.  Maybe it's because your privilege makes you blind to the suffering of others.

[Army Guy]

13 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

However, we are human, and in order to judge our predecessors fairly we need to compare ourselves to the whole spectrum of human behaviour in the past. We also need to judge people from the past by comparing them to their contemporaries, and the people from their own recent and distant past, not by comparing them to people who grew up in a world which in no way resembles the one that they grew up in. 

 

What went on pre-1492 was far crazier than what we did to the natives in Canada, by a lot.

 

This society is like this because CANADIANS (our ancestors) MADE IT THIS WAY and for no other reason. No one forced us to treat other people like equals. We had the power to be worse than we are and it was our ancestors who dragged civilization from the dark ages to exactly where we are today.

Look at all of the lakefront in BC's lower mainland. FN people own most of it, they can hunt and fish without quotas while other Canadians sometimes aren't allowed to do either at any point during the year, or just seasonally - with quotas. They don't pay property taxes, and if they live on res sometimes they don't even pay income tax. They get more medical and dental benefits than the rest of the country. They get free university. It's not a bad gig.

Can you find me a place anywhere else on earth where the minorities get those kinds of benefits over and above the majority culture? Don't kid yourself, it doesn't exist. 

No other culture would have been this good to FN people if they got here first, period. We were still shitty by today's standards, but those are standards which we created and which no other culture has ever lived up to. 

I do agree more or less about judging our past transgressions, but there are a few other points that concern me, one this entire system was not ended until 1980, that is not so long ago, and I'm sure we did not just discover compassion, human rights, or todays moral values...

Second the Catholic church does not have a stellar reputation when it comes to the treatment of children, infact they were in the media every second day in reference to abuses of children be it sexual or physical even towards white Canadians, let alone native children, another point that is known but is it recorded in history or even taught... At the very most after an investigation is completed maybe it should be new policy that the church can never be placed in charge or around children again, this incident is just the straw that broke the camels back..

The disrespect of the dead here is disheartening, even poopers graves were given a a marker and records kept for future reference, and not notifying the parents is just another slap in the face, like there was a deep hatred of these people, and it was expected to treat them this way... keep in mind things don't change until 1980.. which puts a lot of things into perspective...

And while I'm not a big fan of the current way we treat Native Americans, because of treaties dating back 300 years, ceded or unceded lands, i don't think any of those policies have done anyone any good, they may of worked back in the day, but today, we should be moving forward, with everyone being treated the same..as a Canadian, nothing more nothing less, all being treated the same...not a nation with in a nation either for natives or Quebecor's or any other special interest groups we give special treatment to...   

This nation was built upon a lot of morals and values that still ring true today, but we are also finding out that maybe our ancestors were not the gods we paint them out to be.. That things like racism, greed, quest for power were driving factors to building the nation, shit Justin has made a living apologizing for past transgressions makes it clear we are not clearly the a nation above the rest as we think we are, but we do have our warts, big warts.... 

I think all the benefits first nations get today, is because we as a nation feel guilty, or obligated by some 300 year old treaty.  we need to move forward at some point.

 

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

   This nation was built upon a lot of morals and values that still ring true today

that's not actually true

the morals & values of Canada today are nothing more than imported American far left Wokeness

these people actually hate you

my British side is your brother in arms, we swore the same oath to defend the Queen

but my American side ?

that side of me wonders why you feel the need to pander to people who call you a "White Supremacist Insurrectionist"

[Dougie93]

I mean, wake up, these leftist Canadians hate us as sworn enemies

anything they say is just an attempt to gain power for their lunatic ideoology

that ideology itself is racist, while they go around accusing everyone else of being racist

not only is this a con, but if these people had their druthers, they would put us in camps and gas us

if I had my druthers,  I would hang them from the lampposts as traitors to the Crown

the only thing standing between us,  is Elizabeth Windsor

moreover, that Crown of Canada is responsible for gassing the Indians, not me

Edited June 4, 2021 by Dougie93

[WestCanMan]

49 minutes ago, dialamah said:

If your kid didn't arrive home for their regularly scheduled visit, you'd notice and go looking.  But if you didn't know where your kid was, and did not know when you'd see them, then you'd not be surprised when they didn't show up.  That made it easy for the authorities to simply bury these kids when they died - no need to notify family, or send the body home; the family would just never know what happened.

OMG, get a grip.

You're honestly saying that you believe that schools would just let the kids die and bury them, thinking that their parents would just forget about them?

"Heyyy, didn't we used to have 4 kids? Where's the other one?"

"No, I think we actually had like, 7 or something." 

OK dialamah. Makes sense.

[Zeitgeist]

As always, the loudest and most radical voices dominate media and race to announce their opinions first to sway public opinion, but the truth is usually more reasonable and mundane than we choose to see:

https://apple.news/AUoiwUu2_RGOmfqLKDRtNrA

Edited June 4, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[WestCanMan]

42 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Residential school students were subject to physical and sexual abuse by staff

 

Do you understand how factually inaccurate that sentence is?

If I said that "the kids there were fed hamburgers", that would mean that all of the kids were fed hamburgers.

If I said that "the kids there were subject to physical and sexual abuse", that would mean that all of the kids were sexually abused.

By the same token, I could say that Jr hockey players in Saskatchewan were abused, just because of what happened to a few kids on one team. It's atrocious what happened to those few Jr hockey players, and to whatever native children who were abused, but understand this:

IT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO KEEP THINGS HONEST AND IN PERSPECTIVE. THE FACT THAT YOU CHOOSE TO DO THE OPPOSITE IN EVERY SINGLE POST THAT YOU MAKE SAYS EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU.

It would be completely honest, by your standards, to say that Native children were subject to physical and sexual abuse from their parents and siblings. Is that a useful part of a conversation? No, it is not. It's misleading and idiotic, so why does it resemble your writing style?

Quote

Indigenous children in residential schools died at far higher rates than other Canadian children, even for the time, the report notes.

This is one of the downfalls of all types of communal living. It's why members of the military are forced to shave their heads, for instance. 

Science would predict this correctly 112,254,924 times in a row. 

Quote

Why are you so eager to write this story off as nothing more than an overblown media story to make Trudeau look good?  

I'm eager to have media in this country that presents stories from a factual perspective, and not with a political agenda. 

Does that make sense to you dialamah?

Why are you so protective of their 'right' to be dishonest? What does that say about you? 

The jumping off point for productive dialogue is an honest, objective and comprehensive article or story. 

As long as people like you keep on waving pom poms for CTV, CBC and Global they'll just continue to feed you more of the same shit. Just know that at some point they'll be encouraging your kids to fight in a war, and you've allowed them to be liars and helped build up their false 'credibility'.

[Argus]

15 hours ago, dialamah said:

The screaming seems to be coming from the far-right.  The rest of Canada is grieving.

Grieving? Grieving over what? Over kids who died before your parents were born who you never knew? Are you grieving for all the other kids in unmarked graves who died back then of similar diseases? Nope! Why not? What about the poor, mistreated orphans!? What about their misery!? You don't care. Of course not. They're not the flavour of the month. 

Quote

And why shouldn't we?  We're better than we were back then, aren't we?  Why wouldn't better people, a better and more civilized society, grieve the abuse and death of children for political expediency and religious fervor?  It baffles me why some people are so wrought up about that.  

I'm not wrought up about it. I don't CARE about it. There's no new information here to surprise or shock me. My response to "They found dead childrens' bodies buried near where there was a residential school" is "Well, yeah, so what? It's not like that's a surprise. We knew that."

 History is filled with miserable things having been done to entirely innocent people all across the breadth of the planet. There are way worse things which happened to people in the same time frame. Hell, arguably worse things happened to the Duplesssis orphans and that was in the 1950s! But they were white so who cares?

Do you grieve over the ones laying in unmarked graves? Nope. Are you grieving for the thousands of Irish men, women and children laying in unmarked graves on Grosse Isle? They travelled for weeks on creaky sailing ships only to be buried there as they were overcome with Typhus shortly after arrival. I'm guessing you don't care because the media hasn't been sobbing about it. 

Spare  me your grief for this media manufactured tragedy from the distant past. 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Argus

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I do agree more or less about judging our past transgressions, but there are a few other points that concern me, one this entire system was not ended until 1980, that is not so long ago, and I'm sure we did not just discover compassion, human rights, or todays moral values...

I'm not sure the schools operated with the same rules and requirements by then. Some of the natives apparently willingly sent their kids off by then, and there was contact between parents and children. 

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

The disrespect of the dead here is disheartening, even poopers graves were given a a marker and records kept for future reference, and not notifying the parents is just another slap in the face, like there was a deep hatred of these people, and it was expected to treat them this way... keep in mind things don't change until 1980.. which puts a lot of things into perspective...

I've seen reports which say there were markings, but that decades of weather and prairie fires did away with most of them. Not notifying the parents is inexcusable, I agree, though I'm not sure how difficult that would have been in those days, getting word to parents who didn't speak English and lived on isolated reservations.

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

OMG, get a grip.

You're honestly saying that you believe that schools would just let the kids die and bury them, thinking that their parents would just forget about them?

It's not that they thought the parents would forget them, they just didn't care.   They probably didn't even bother to keep records about the kids' families because the absolutely stated goal of the government was to deprive the kids from any contact with their culture - that's why the kids had their given name changed and were punished for speaking their language or following any of their customs.   They outlawed all the Native customs for the adults, confined them to their reservations, but figured the only way to truly "save" the kids was to completely remove them from any contact from those adults.

Why would you think the government or schools would care enough to let families know their children had died?  

[Dougie93]

it's not that they didn't care

it was the old Victorian missionary impulse of the 19th century

the road to hell is paved with good intentions

and priggish Canadians want to save the world by authoritarian central planning

[Dougie93]

Dialamah is exactly the sort of Canadian who would have put these kids in the camps

this was done by the leftist feminist do gooders of 1890

the conservatives of the time said that Indians were savages by nature and you couldn't cure them of that

it was the leftist "progressives" of the day who were out to prove that the Indian savages could be "civilized"

[bush_cheney2004]

4 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

the morals & values of Canada today are nothing more than imported American far left Wokeness

 

True...one of the CBC News talking heads expressed that it took importing America's Black Lives Matter (BLM) "activism" into Canada to set the stage for sufficient outrage and actions over this and other native issues....lit a fire under their asses that could no longer be ignored as before.

Now the Canadian statues are routinely coming down....buildings are getting new names...as are streets and parkways.

Blame those goddamn Americans...too much freedom !