Is Canada becoming a Communist state?

[cougar]

On 7/18/2021 at 6:30 AM, OftenWrong said:

Well for example one could write them letters, and such.

I see.  You and Mike must have written letters and seen results ???  Curious to know what you managed to achieve with your letters other than wasting 20 minutes of your time plus the 92 cent postage, tax and envelope.

Edited July 19, 2021 by cougar

[taxme]

On 4/10/2021 at 4:42 AM, blackbird said:

While I don't agree with the anti-vaxers and the anti-Covid crowd, I still believe Canadians have freedom of speech.  This guy Chris Sky has just been put on the no-fly list for being an anti-vaxer, anti-Covid protestor/speaker for exercising his right to freedom speech.  The government appears to be shutting him down and preventing him from travel so he cannot go to protest rallies and speak. This while a convicted terrorist, who killed someone when he was fighting for al Qaida in Afghanistan, received 10.5 million dollars and an apology, is not on the no fly list and is free to fly. This is Trudeau's Canada.  Trudeau did express his admiration for the Chinese Communist system about six years ago.  Are we fast becoming a Communist state?  Could the pandemic and Trudeau government's response be the trigger that removes our fundamental freedoms and establishes Canada as a Communist dictatorship?  Should there be a difference between the way a Communist dictatorship acts and the way a western democracy acts toward people who differ in their beliefs and speech about the pandemic and government response?

https://www.rebelnews.com/chris_sky_lands_on_canadas_no_fly_list?utm_campaign=rr_04_09_2021&utm_medium=email&utm_source=therebel

Canada has pretty much now become a communist state. Chris Sky is a great Canadian patriot and look what communist Fidel Trudeau has done to this patriot. No one can honestly say today that Canada is pretty much on it's way to becoming a communist country. It's getting pretty sad and looking pretty bad out there for Canada. Just saying. 

[OftenWrong]

25 minutes ago, cougar said:

I see.  You and Mike must have written letters and seen results ???  Curious to know what you managed to achieve with your letters other than wasting 20 minutes of your time plus the 92 cent postage, tax and envelope.

I appreciate the skepticism. At least you can be safely ignored compared to communism, where once you open your mouth, they might come a-lookin.    

Besides sometimes it works, vote the bastards out. Not just out, no party status. Wish them behind the cornfield.

Politically speaking.

 

 

[cougar]

29 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Besides sometimes it works, vote the bastards out.

Doesn't work either.  They have already played all possible scenarios in their heads.  They always win ; we always lose.

The political party is just a face for the big private companies in the country.  You can change the face, but the companies remain the same and they will exert pressure to achieve their objectives under any government.  If the going gets tough for them, they just up and leave leaving the mess for us to sort out.

 

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, cougar said:

Doesn't work either.  They have already played all possible scenarios in their heads.  They always win ; we always lose.

You and Myata should form your own Sad Eeyore Club... Everything sucks all the time with you.  If it's a sunny day, that just means it's going to rain.

Harper WAS the PM remember?  The liberals lost three elections...

[cougar]

54 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You and Myata should form your own Sad Eeyore Club... Everything sucks all the time with you.  If it's a sunny day, that just means it's going to rain.

 

The Club of those who think vs. those who don't you mean.

How is this 50'C sunny day with no rain working out for you?

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, cougar said:

1. The Club of those who think vs. those who don't you mean.

2. How is this 50'C sunny day with no rain working out for you?

1. Hahaha.  You mean like when you said you always lose and I pointed out 3 Liberal losses in a row.  Have a piece of cake, do some yoga and do something that makes you happy ok ?  Seriously.
2. It rained yesterday.

[myata]

11 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You and Myata should form your own Sad Eeyore Club... Everything sucks all the time with you.  If it's a sunny day, that just means it's going to rain.

We can think of bicentennial Canada 50 years from now:

1. 80 million population, Toronto 20 million; asphalted and concreted all the way from lake to lake; MP salary, half a million (and that's modest by the current rates); public minister salary over a million; GG figurehead still a cornerstone of a 21st century democracy, scandals, abusing employees not to worry; last old-growth forest long cut and sold; last salmon fished out and sold; the last place in developed world with gas trucks still running, Europe 30 years as switched to electric; greenhouse targets blown again and again, by multiple governments of varying stripe, not to worry always next time; third of the population on the dole / UBI some decades in the queue / lottery for envied PS positions.

or

2. A dynamic, vibrant and modern democracy with great participation of all citizens. Transparent, responsive and responsible governments, top-notch public services including health care, free life-long education, great job mobility, flexible and enjoyable work environment, public or private great universally available benefits.

So which one? And importantly, how; and from where?

Edited July 20, 2021 by myata

[Michael Hardner]

26 minutes ago, myata said:

We can think of bicentennial Canada 50 years from now:

1. 80 million population, Toronto 20 million; asphalted and concreted all the way from lake to lake; MP salary, half a million (and that's modest by the current rates); public minister salary over a million; GG figurehead still a cornerstone of a 21st democracy, scandals, abusing employees not to worry; last old-growth forest long cut and sold; last salmon fished out and sold; the last place in developed world with gas trucks still running, Europe 30 years as switched to electric; greenhouse targets blown again and again, by multiple governments of varying stripe, not to worry; third of the population on the dole / UBI some decades in the queue / lottery for envied PS positions.

or

2. A dynamic, vibrant and modern democracy with great participation of all citizens. Transparent, responsive and responsible governments, top-notch public services including health care, free life-long education, great job mobility, flexible and enjoyable work environment, public or private great universally available benefits.

So which one? And importantly, how; and from where?

1. Sounds like paradise.  I hate salmon and my house prices will mean I can buy a great air purifier.
2. Boo.

[Yzermandius19]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Hahaha.  You mean like when you said you always lose and I pointed out 3 Liberal losses in a row.  Have a piece of cake, do some yoga and do something that makes you happy ok ?  Seriously.
2. It rained yesterday.

you say that as if the Liberals losing didn't result in continued Liberal governance

Harper is a prime example of you can't vote the bastards out, even when you vote them out, it's still more of the same

the biggest difference between the major parties is simply the colors they rock

would you like the Red Liberals or Blue Liberals today? such a variety of choice for people to choose between

Edited July 20, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1. you say that as if the Liberals losing didn't result in continued Liberal governance

2. Harper is a prime example of you can't vote the bastards out, even when you vote them out, it's still more of the same

3. the biggest difference between the major parties is simply the colors they rock

4. would you like the Red Liberals or Blue Liberals today? such a variety of choice for people to choose between

1. 2. Ah, ok fair enough... I didn't consider that Coug and Myata might be lamenting that the two main parties are the same.
3. I got kudos for someone recently for saying they're the same but one party pretends to be caring and the other pretends to be pragmatic.
4. And yet, when have we not had a Liberal or Conservative government ?  And is Canada not a success when ranked against the world ?  And do people not want to come here ?  

I'll give you that it's not heaven on earth but utopian dreamers who complain that the golden land has never arrived as promised... they never seem to be able to describe how it would come about, and yet simultaneously seem to think how simple it would be for it to arrive.  I'm a little guilty of that myself sometimes.

[myata]

8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Sounds like paradise.  I hate salmon and my house prices will mean I can buy a great air purifier.

Sure, and relocate to Africa? it could still buy something there for how long though.

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, myata said:

Sure, and relocate to Africa? it could still buy something there for how long though.

No - that will be a climate-change hellhole.  I'm thinking beachside, or at least a pool, in Nunavut.  Hopefully the Liberals and Conservatives will have merged by then; I suggest the Lie-Serves Party.  And Ontario+Quebec will finally have their victory.

[Yzermandius19]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. 2. Ah, ok fair enough... I didn't consider that Coug and Myata might be lamenting that the two main parties are the same.
3. I got kudos for someone recently for saying they're the same but one party pretends to be caring and the other pretends to be pragmatic.
4. And yet, when have we not had a Liberal or Conservative government ?  And is Canada not a success when ranked against the world ?  And do people not want to come here ?  

I'll give you that it's not heaven on earth but utopian dreamers who complain that the golden land has never arrived as promised... they never seem to be able to describe how it would come about, and yet simultaneously seem to think how simple it would be for it to arrive.  I'm a little guilty of that myself sometimes.

3)accurate

4)to the extent that Canada is a success, that is in spite of it's political leadership, not because of it

Canada had some success because of other nations successes, if it's success or failure was based only on it's own merits and no one else's, then it would be a miserable failure

Canada is propped up by it's betters, yet the Canadians give the credit to the federal government holding them back, instead of who actually deserves the credit

while maligning those who deserve the credit for it's successes as the scapegoats for it's failures, instead of looking in the mirror and seeing that the problem is Confederation itself

as for the utopians, their utopia will never come to pass and trying to achieve it is a fool's errand, but there is still room for a lot of improvement in Canada, on that they are correct

Edited July 20, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[OftenWrong]

8 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Harper is a prime example of you can't vote the bastards out,

I’ll take it over what we have now. There’s extreme liberal and there’s goofy idiot.

I said in demockracy one at least has a chance. Doesn’t mean you’re gonna get what you want. You can write letters, but they might not make any difference. However, they also might.

Conservative Party is their own worst enemy. But the liberals are more fascist, so they present an appearance that they speak with one voice.

[Michael Hardner]

14 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1)to the extent that Canada is a success, that is in spite of it's political leadership, not because of it

2) Canada had some success because of other nations successes, if it's success or failure was based only on it's own merits and no one else's, then it would be a miserable failure

3) as for the utopians, their utopia will never come to pass and trying to achieve it is a fool's errand, but there is still room for a lot of improvement in Canada, on that they are correct

1) 2) Ok.  Well when I look at failed states, it's not because their governments are well set up either.  Don't you think there's something to be said for our politics, whether you see it as right or left ?  Even if we succeeded because we live next door to a wealthy monolith, what of Cuba ?  Mexico ?  Haiti ?  

3) I agree with this, and I believe said improvement needs to come by leaving the left-right frameworks behind and thinking about new ideas that work.  Some ideas I have suggested in the past include: removing some artifacts from the political arena, fostering public-private partnerships to deliver services...

[Yzermandius19]

27 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) 2) Ok.  Well when I look at failed states, it's not because their governments are well set up either.  Don't you think there's something to be said for our politics, whether you see it as right or left ?  Even if we succeeded because we live next door to a wealthy monolith, what of Cuba ?  Mexico ?  Haiti ?

Mexico and Cuba are former Spanish colonies

Haiti is a former French colony

Spanish and French colonies were run worse than British colonies

the disparity between them is no surprise

it's a British thing, not a Canadian thing

the credit goes to Britain 

Canada simply draws a bullseye around an arrow and falsely takes credit for someone else's shot

besides being more successful than Haiti isn't exactly a major feather in the cap

Edited July 20, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Yzermandius19]

44 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I’ll take it over what we have now. There’s extreme liberal and there’s goofy idiot.

I said in demockracy one at least has a chance. Doesn’t mean you’re gonna get what you want. You can write letters, but they might not make any difference. However, they also might.

Conservative Party is their own worst enemy. But the liberals are more fascist, so they present an appearance that they speak with one voice.

there is little difference between the two when it comes to governance

what is the point of throwing the red liberals out, if they are merely making way for the blue liberals?

O'Toole vs Trudeau

that's a mirror match

whoever wins, Canada gets more of the same

whether you prefer blue liberal style rhetoric and pandering to red liberal style rhetoric and pandering, is of no actual relevance to how the parties govern once in power

Edited July 20, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said:

there is little difference between the two when it comes to governance

what is the point of throwing the red liberals out, if they are merely making way for the blue liberals?

O'Toole vs Trudeau

that's a mirror match

whoever wins, Canada gets more of the same

whether you prefer blue liberal style rhetoric and pandering to red liberal style rhetoric and pandering, is of no actual relevance to how the parties govern once in power

I mean,

I can only agree. Far be it from me to defend government chivatos.

Anything looks better than communism.

On the other hand perhaps it is better to live in a society where the political differences are more subtle, because that means things are pretty good and we are only fine-tuning the equation. I'm not saying we have this now, but the larger the differences get, the more problems we're going to have. Until finally it breaks down.

That's why it needs to be liberalism and conservatism applied in specific, controlled ways. The specifics are what we bandy about here daily.

For voters it isn't even about the message. It's all about the medium.

[OftenWrong]

"Is Canada becoming a communist state?"

- Yes, a little.

"Why did Harper win?"

- Good hair.

[myata]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

No - that will be a climate-change hellhole.  I'm thinking beachside, or at least a pool, in Nunavut. 

Sounds like a plan, time to act about now.

[myata]

40 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

"Is Canada becoming a communist state?"

- Yes, a little.

"Why did Harper win?"

- Good hair.

Maybe we're missing the point? Change can be real or superficial, in appearance mostly or only. What has changed in the country essentially and for the better in the last two generations, 1980 - now, Liberals no Liberals, Martin-Harper? The permanent healthcare crisis? Tuition that keeps creeping up whatever the government? MP and GG wages show no ideological bias. Face of the PM in the paper? Real action on emissions? One can continue long but was is one example to the contrary?

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1. Mexico and Cuba are former Spanish colonies. Haiti is a former French colony. Spanish and French colonies were run worse than British colonies. the disparity between them is no surprise. it's a British thing, not a Canadian thing, the credit goes to Britain 

2. Canada simply draws a bullseye around an arrow and falsely takes credit for someone else's shot

3. besides being more successful than Haiti isn't exactly a major feather in the cap

1. Haven't you just given an implied compliment to British/Canadian Governance though ?  Hard to separate them.
2. Canada had challenges that Britain didn't have, either.  
3. Sad trombone.

[Yzermandius19]

53 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I mean,

I can only agree. Far be it from me to defend government chivatos.

Anything looks better than communism.

On the other hand perhaps it is better to live in a society where the political differences are more subtle, because that means things are pretty good and we are only fine-tuning the equation. I'm not saying we have this now, but the larger the differences get, the more problems we're going to have. Until finally it breaks down.

That's why it needs to be liberalism and conservatism applied in specific, controlled ways. The specifics are what we bandy about here daily.

For voters it isn't even about the message. It's all about the medium.

if the status quo is desirable than little difference can be a benefit to keep that locked in and keep that from changing 

if the status quo is not desirable than little difference keeps that locked in and keeps that from changing

Canada is the latter, not the former, change is required and a lack of choice hinders that greatly

[Yzermandius19]

16 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Haven't you just given an implied compliment to British/Canadian Governance though ?  Hard to separate them.
2. Canada had challenges that Britain didn't have, either.  
3. Sad trombone.

1)yes I gave British governance a compliment

you can separate the British from the Canadian

because the British parts are present in more countries than just Canada, and they didn't get those parts from Canada, they got them from Britain

the countries that share that British governance are well off as a result, including Canada

countries that share the political peculiarities that separate Canada from Britain, and don't have the similarities with the British that Canada does, aren't fairing as well as Canada

it is not Canada's Canadianess that is responsible for it's successes, quite the opposite

Canada is not the model to emulate

Canada is successful only when that it emulates the most successful models and has close ties with those models to prop them up, and compensate for it's staggering incompetence

Canada is not successful in trying to blaze it's own path, it's a follower country, not a leader country

it sucks innovating, much better at copycating

copycatting is a double-edged sword though

as Canada copies the bad as well as the good

as seen with how quickly the woke have conquered Canada, despite it being a recent importation from America

Edited July 20, 2021 by Yzermandius19