Is Canada becoming a Communist state?

[cougar]

41 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

My apologies for assuming that most socialists would care about the environment, but I'm shocked to see that you're advocating for selling off every square inch of the country for development purposes to pay off our debt. k here in reality.

Hurts to lose the argument; doesn't it?  You know pretty well what the point I want to make was.

Money when it comes to those huge numbers has no value!  You can buy nothing with it, because there is nothing left to buy.  And you do not need to "print money" to devalue it as you suggested.  It is all digital these days.  Meaningless numbers in meaningless accounts.

Money is a promise, nothing more.  You are looking now at mountains of promises that someone has accumulated and is hoping to collect on with the following small problem : not enough resources left to buy even if you want to factor in the future productivity of land over the next 100 years or more.

 

 

[WestCanMan]

4 minutes ago, cougar said:

Hurts to lose the argument; doesn't it?  You know pretty well what the point I want to make was.

Money when it comes to those huge numbers has no value!  You can buy nothing with it, because there is nothing left to buy.  And you do not need to "print money" to devalue it as you suggested.  It is all digital these days.  Meaningless numbers in meaningless accounts.

Money is a promise, nothing more.  You are looking now at mountains of promises that someone has accumulated and is hoping to collect on with the following small problem : not enough resources left to buy even if you want to factor in the future productivity of land over the next 100 years or more.

Lol, I was being overly polite. You know that you said something ridiculous.

This is no different. You're just proving, once again, that you have no idea what kind of a role money plays in having a complex economy. 

[cougar]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

Living in a Marxist/communist country does not make everyone equal. It makes the ordinary people equal. It makes the Marxist leadership elite rich. Many of the elite members of any Marxist/communist party in any communist country are pretty much all filthy rich.

Speak about the pre 1990 era when we had USSR and the Eastern block was all socialist countries.  The presidents used properties that were government owned and they had indeed more rights than the average person did but nothing too extravagant.  You could not see a rich person to covet.  All drove the same cars, if they had a car, ate the same food, went to the same places.

[cougar]

27 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

a complex economy. 

We can try to hide behind the word "complex" like the Emperor was wearing his new clothes.  Doesn't change a thing - the naked truth shines on.

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, cougar said:

We can try to hide behind the word "complex" like the Emperor was wearing his new clothes.  Doesn't change a thing - the naked truth shines on.

I'm trying to imagine a world where you exchange goods and services at the speed of modern commerce, even at a local level, without some form of monetary system and it's eluding me. Internationally lol, forget about it.

Eg, in your perfect world, how does the fact that you cut Timothy's hair make it so that you can buy a sandwich from Dorothy? 

If you cut the hair of 10,000 people, how does that translate into your ability to buy a car that was made in Japan, Cougar? 

Do you think that communist and socialist countries get by without a form of currency? Do you think that the leaders of those countries live modestly? 

Would you be shocked to find out that being the family member or close friend of Xi or Putin (or Biden for that matter) guaranteed you a fantastic position (I intentionally avoided the word 'job' because that would imply actually doing something in the position that you were gifted) and an opulent lifestyle, regardless of whether you were qualified to hold that position or not?

Sorry to burst your bubble cougar, maybe you need to post in a liberal echo chamber. 

[myata]

25 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Do you think that communist and socialist countries get by without a form of currency? Do you think that the leaders of those countries live modestly?

They can do it because the population is basically, their serfs, and they can sell the goods that the serfs (or slaves) produce abroad for real money to buy mansions, yachts, Swiss bank accounts etc.

[OftenWrong]

7 hours ago, myata said:

People getting (very) rich entirely at the public's expense is very common in communism. Interesting paradox...

You nailed it, fella. That is reality. There was a wealthy bourgeoisie in the USSR, and it was those in the communist party. All others were equally treated, but like dogs. You hef problem, komrad?
#Disappeared

Second, was the effect communism had on the attitude of the people. People became stupider. Simply put, nobody gave much of a shit about anything anymore. And why should they?

The soviet union failed partly because of this. Accidents like the huge oil spill from their rotten pipeline in the Baltic, and the Chernobyl disaster were harbingers of the Soviet Union's demise.

Those commie bastards reaped what they had sewn, to put it in biblical terms... and so my friend shall we.

[OftenWrong]

5 hours ago, cougar said:

Speak about the pre 1990 era when we had USSR and the Eastern block was all socialist countries.  The presidents used properties that were government owned and they had indeed more rights than the average person did but nothing too extravagant.  You could not see a rich person to covet.  All drove the same cars, if they had a car, ate the same food, went to the same places.

I know it sounds romantic. The New Soviet Man, was almost a good idea.

But then that old motherin' human greed came in and kicked em right in the... whoopsie.
As Gorbachev said, Sorry, plan failed komrads. Let's go home.

[blackbird]

7 hours ago, cougar said:

Can't even continue to read further than this.  Communism and Marxism make people EQUAL.  You can not covet the wealth of another who has exactly what you have!

I suggest you confine your comments to the bible.  Your knowledge there is hopefully better.

Where does it say that you are entitled to have the equal of anyone else?  Communism is a lie because there is no right to people being equal and there is no such utopia or ever will be.  Those in power will always look after themselves and their friends first and always have more, even in so-called Communist countries.  Secondly, why should anyone receive what belongs to others without having to earn it or work for it?  Thieves should be behind bars, not receiving other's property or wealth for doing nothing.

[cougar]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

Where does it say that you are entitled to have the equal of anyone else?  Communism is a lie because there is no right to people being equal and there is no such utopia or ever will be.  Those in power will always look after themselves and their friends first and always have more, even in so-called Communist countries.  Secondly, why should anyone receive what belongs to others without having to earn it or work for it?  Thieves should be behind bars, not receiving other's property or wealth for doing nothing.

It comes down to one word -  "conscience".  If one can elevate himself over the small stuff and be fair, honest and hard working, if one can put greed and jealousy behind, they can recognize that the person next door , holding the same values is equal and deserves the same; deserves fair treatment.  Same person will recognize animals also have rights and should be protected no less than a criminal who is found "not criminally responsible".  Same people will recognize you cannot produce anything unless it is biodegradable or you have a bulletproof strategy to collect 100% of what is produced and recycle it.

The problem, therefore, is lack of conscience both among individuals in the socialist and capitalist societies.

What do we do with these people and how do we make sure they do not reappear?  Do we put all of them in a gas chamber?  I wish I could do exactly that, but then I will be a Nazi.

[cougar]

5 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I'm trying to imagine a world where you exchange goods and services at the speed of modern commerce, even at a local level, without some form of monetary system and it's eluding me. Internationally lol, forget about it.

Eg, in your perfect world, how does the fact that you cut Timothy's hair make it so that you can buy a sandwich from Dorothy? 

If you cut the hair of 10,000 people, how does that translate into your ability to buy a car that was made in Japan, Cougar? 

Do you think that communist and socialist countries get by without a form of currency? Do you think that the leaders of those countries live modestly? 

Would you be shocked to find out that being the family member or close friend of Xi or Putin (or Biden for that matter) guaranteed you a fantastic position (I intentionally avoided the word 'job' because that would imply actually doing something in the position that you were gifted) and an opulent lifestyle, regardless of whether you were qualified to hold that position or not?

Sorry to burst your bubble cougar, maybe you need to post in a liberal echo chamber. 

I went through my bottle of....let me see...Folonari Pinot Grigio - white wine and I have 75% of its contents in my stomach but believe me there is only 1 thing I can't get:  How did those too morons give you a like for the pile of nonsense you posted above? :-)

Can't make sense myself.  Maybe it is the wine.  Maybe it is my foreign background - lack of English skills.  Or I am just plain dumb - sober or drunk!  :-)

Watch and think hard about the concept of 'have" and "do not have".

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by cougar

[blackbird]

Freedom of expression in Canada has been under attack for some time, but now the Liberal government is seriously working on a way to reduce  it significantly.  Trudeau and his minister are working on removing freedom of speech on the internet under the cover of eliminating hate speech, disinformation and misinformation.  If this isn't Communist or Marxist over reach, I don't know what is.

"According to True North, Guilbeault was tasked by Prime Minister Trudeau with "crafting several pieces of legislation including a revamping of Canada’s Broadcasting Act and a new regulatory system meant to address online hate, disinformation and misinformation."

"He went on, stating that to combat the rise of online hate, the government would introduce a "new body", in charge of enforcing any new regulations. Guilbeault said that the body could possibly have the power to use "blocking orders", essentially the ability to prevent Canadians from accessing websites that go against the rules. “It's pretty extreme", he admitted, "but theoretically it is a tool that is out there and could potentially be used. But really no decisions have been made on that. This is something you would see as part of the regulations most likely.”"

Read the full article:

WATCH: Trudeau minister suggests online hate bill might allow government to block access to        websites | The Post Millennial

Canadians should be ready to challenge these kind of regulations under the Charter of Rights which guarantees "freedom of expression", either individually or through class action lawsuits.

Edited April 15, 2021 by blackbird

[myata]

From Day 1 of these events the authorities have not been open and honest with the society: here's what we know, here's what we don't here's what we're trying to achieve and here's how we will know if it works. None. Not a problem and here's the next seemingly arbitrary directive to obey blindly, no explanations given, common sense or not.

Now, a question: does it look like an open and dynamic democracy in the 21st century? Or like something else?

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, myata said:

Now, a question:

What's your solution?  Or do you even have one?  What is the point of all your ranting and "proof" that  Canada is descending into communism?  

[Nefarious Banana]

23 minutes ago, dialamah said:

What's your solution?  Or do you even have one?  What is the point of all your ranting and "proof" that  Canada is descending into communism?  

What's your solution . . . . total acceptance, without question, of everything the 'sock monkey & crew' are doing to this once great country?

[dialamah]

28 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

What's your solution . . . . total acceptance, without question, of everything the 'sock monkey & crew' are doing to this once great country?

"Once" great country?  What is the matter with Canada, exactly?  Where else would you rather live because it's so much better?   

Sure there are problems - we ought to have been MUCH better prepared for a pandemic, and that we weren't is due to the lack of action of both liberal and Conservative governments.  And the disinterest of citizens.  

Yes Trudeau has spent a lot of money trying to prevent our economy from collapsing, keep people in their homes and food on the table.  It's laughable to claim that a Conservative gov would somehow have done better; Harper spent like a fiend to keep our economy afloat after the 2008 crash, just as a Liberal gov would have done.  Not to mention virtually every country in the world has spent huge amounts of money trying to cope with this pandemic.

Government communication can always be better, no doubt, but assuming a gov is lying or hiding info because they're giving updated information as we learn more about this virus, and vaccines, as time goes on, is ridiculous.  

There's a stark difference between hyperbolic criticism (Canada is turning into a communist country!  The sky is falling!) and criticism that considers all relevant factors.  Relevant factors exclude things like sock styles and hair styles.  

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by dialamah

[blackbird]

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Edited April 15, 2021 by blackbird

[blackbird]

26 minutes ago, dialamah said:

"Once" great country?  What is the matter with Canada, exactly?  Where else would you rather live because it's so much better?   

Sure there are problems - we ought to have been MUCH better prepared for a pandemic, and that we weren't is due to the lack of action of both liberal and Conservative governments.  And the disinterest of citizens.  

Yes Trudeau has spent a lot of money trying to prevent our economy from collapsing, people in their homes and food on the table.  It's laughable to claim that a Conservative gov would somehow have done better; Harper spent like a fiend to keep our economy afloat after the 2008 crash, just as a Liberal gov would have done.  Not to mention virtually every country in the world has spent huge amounts of money trying to cope with this pandemic.

Government communication can always be better, no doubt, but assuming a gov is lying or hiding info because they're giving updated information as we learn more about this virus, and vaccines, as time goes on, is ridiculous.  

There's a stark difference between hyperbolic criticism (Canada is turning into a communist country!  The sky is falling!) and criticism that considers all relevant factors.  Relevant factors exclude things like sock styles and hair styles.  

 

Trudeau attempted to slip 900 million dollars of taxpayer's money to his friends in WE charity.  That' almost a billion dollars.  That is like a banana republic where dictators are in it for themselves.  Could we be heading into being some kind of Communist/Marxist/banana republic dictatorship?

Canada is a federation of provinces.  Trudeau's way is to dictate to the provinces.  Trudeau's imposition of carbon taxes on provinces is a prime example of his way of governing Canada.  He operates like some kind of Marxist dictator.   A democratic leader would not be dictating things but would be listening to provinces and cooperating with them.

Edited April 15, 2021 by blackbird

[WestCanMan]

10 hours ago, cougar said:

  How did those too morons give you a like for the pile of nonsense you posted above? :-)

You said earlier:

Quote

2. - FYI money has significantly departed from the barter system in the way that now it has no real physical backing.  This is why we can have cyber currencies and all kinds of non tangible "assets" on books.  The reality is there is nothing there.  The concept of "growing money" is pure BS.  You can not get something out of nothing.

3.  Wealth under socialism was measured in knowledge and happiness.   As mentioned before one person can only live on so much land and have 2 properties.  Under the fucked up capitalist system you can buy everything that you do not reasonably need or can reasonably use, only to exercise influence and power on those who were dispossessed and left with nothing.

2 is crap. Money has value, if you don't agree with me then give me yours and we'll call it a draw. Good luck getting more wine.

3 is naive lunacy. A) You can choose to value and aspire to whatever you want in a capitalist society, deep human connection or chattels, and b) your belief that the people at the top of the heap in socialist societies don't want 2 houses is only correct because, like Bernie Sanders, they want 3 or more. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by WestCanMan
capital b makes an emoji

[cougar]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

You said earlier: " FYI money has significantly departed from the barter system in the way that now it has no real physical backing.  "

2 is crap. Money has value, if you don't agree with me then give me yours and we'll call it a draw. Good luck getting more wine.

Can't give you mine because I am a guy who is being controlled by money; not one of the guys who uses money to control the rest of us.  I said "money in small amounts has a meaning" - those small amounts that correspond to our small abilities to work and produce.

Those trillions of dollars are meaningless because there is nothing to back those up.  You can start buying planets from the outer space with the aliens on them - the aliens will not even know they were bought.  What good will that be to you, I have no idea.

So, no, it is not crap but the reality.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Trudeau attempted to slip 900 million dollars of taxpayer's money to his friends in WE charity.  That' almost a billion dollars.  That is like a banana republic where dictators are in it for themselves. 

And our democratic institutions - free press, freedom of information - worked as they should-the public was informed, JT was (at least) embarrassed and many Canadians are looking at Trudeau differently.  The organization that benefitted has shut down.  That is pretty far from a banana republic.

That the Conservatives aren't a shoe-in for the next election isn't because Canadians are stupid, or that they want to destroy Canada and live under communism; it's because Conservatives are not offering what Canadians want.  That is how democracy works: the people decide which party/ideology they want for some limited period of time.  Far from being communist, our democracy is working as it should.  Blaming everyone else for the failures of Conservative leadership and core supporters isn't helping.

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

Canada is a federation of provinces.  Trudeau's way is to dictate to the provinces.  Trudeau's imposition of carbon taxes on provinces is a prime example of his way of governing Canada.  He operates like some kind of Marxist dictator.   A democratic leader would not be dictating things but would be listening to provinces and cooperating with them.

If Conservatives weren't so determined to downplay, dismiss and ignore environmental and climate issues, and made an effort to come up with a better plan, maybe the "imposition" of carbon taxes would become a non-issue.

All governments impose stuff on lower levels of government, and to some degree, on the citizens.  That's business-as-usual, not "dictatorship.'. And just because you don't like a policy doesn't equal dictatorship; my opinion is that carbon taxes help reduce emissions and at this point, is better than nothing.

But a better plan would be very welcome, whether from Conservatives or NDP or Liberal.

[myata]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

Sure there are problems - we ought to have been MUCH better prepared for a pandemic, and that we weren't is due to the lack of action of both liberal and Conservative governments.  And the disinterest of citizens. 

And that was 18 years after SARS and twelve, after MERS. And will it be any different with the next pandemic? Here's what I think is wrong: we lost the ability to learn; change and adapt. We aren't interested, we don't want to, we're actively avoiding it, and in the end, we cannot. And that cannot be good.

[blackbird]

39 minutes ago, dialamah said:

If Conservatives weren't so determined to downplay, dismiss and ignore environmental and climate issues, and made an effort to come up with a better plan, maybe the "imposition" of carbon taxes would become a non-issue.

All governments impose stuff on lower levels of government, and to some degree, on the citizens.  That's business-as-usual, not "dictatorship.'. And just because you don't like a policy doesn't equal dictatorship; my opinion is that carbon taxes help reduce emissions and at this point, is better than nothing.

But a better plan would be very welcome, whether from Conservatives or NDP or Liberal.

Man-made climate change is a fraud and scam.  The argument in favour of it is very subjective and has never been proven.  It can't be proven because it is impossible to replicate in an experiment.  It boils down to speculation.  People who don't believe in God tend to blame man for everything that happens, including the weather and climate. It is ridiculous.  Trudeau, liberals, and left tend to believe man is responsible for everything and believe man can control everything.  They live in la la land.  They trust the Marxist U.N. and the global liberal elites who pushed this man-made climate change fraud on everyone.  But not everyone is buying it.  It already has been proven that it is a political scam more than science.  

Edited April 15, 2021 by blackbird

[dialamah]

46 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Man-made climate change is a fraud and scam.  The argument in favour of it is very subjective and has never been proven.  It can't be proven because it is impossible to replicate in an experiment.

What if you are wrong?  For the sake of argument, I'll agree that there is a God, who created this world and everything on it, including humans.  He gave himans curiousity, intelligence, the ability to learn and build on knowledge.  Using those gifts, man created plastic, and now that plastic ends up in the ocean, in the gut and flesh of marine animals; who do we blame for that?   Bees around the world are dying as a result of pesticides humans created and put on crops, who do we blame for that?  Those are just two tiny examples of how human behavior has impacted nature.  There are many more.

If God has given us intelligence, curiousity and the ability to learn, and we use those gifts in ways that destroy the gift of his earth, perhaps he also expects us to use the gifts he gave us to turn that around - to treat his gift with respect, rather than burying our heads in the sand and declare "it's not happening".   Or blaming the liberals if it is happening.

Anyway, attitudes like yours as a mainstay of the Conservative party are part of the reason why so many remain hesitant to vote Conservative, even if they don't like JT; at least Liberals acknowledge the problem, even if they're shit at actually doing anything about it.