Did Trudeau Fail His Country On Covid-19

[Yzermandius19]

8 minutes ago, Charles Anthony said:

Folks, 

Do not clutter the forum with garbage.  Despite what we have all been taught, pictures are not worth thousands of words. 

When people use images or videos to help illustrate their point, that isn't garbage. There is a difference between images that clutter up the forum, and those that don't. If you don't want people posting images under any circumstances, then why even have the feature?

Edited March 22, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Argus]

9 hours ago, Iceni warrior said:

And my contribution was to say it didn't help us here it just came into the country from somewhere else.

Only shutting down all international travel as soon as it was first recorded in Wuhan would have made any difference.

Or... going to mass testing and monitoring of the health of those coming into the country as they did in Singapore.

[cannuck]

5 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Yet South Korea didn't shut down it's economy, and the sky did not fall. All these other countries assuming the sky will fall if they don't shut down the economy are doing severe economic damage for no real gain on the health side of things.

Moral of the story: Shutting down the economy is one of the worst ways to fight the virus. In fact the economy should be harnessed to fight the virus, not treated like the enemy, South Korea Knows.

As much as I enjoy throwing barbs at politicians of any kind, this is one time where their response is appropriate, but inadequate, not overblown.  In the workplace and marketplace, the level of interaction is HUGE.   Cutting that to the absolute minimum is not doing much to change the ultimate level of exposure, but it will dramatically shift the shape of the curve.  The problem is we simply don't have anything near the sick care capacity to handle even a modest number of severe cases.   Watch the numbers climbing in Italy and appreciate just what that looks like.   Also: think of the Chinese "hospital in 10 days".   That was done to keep the infected patients SEPARATE from the overall hospitalized community - and we have no such ability or intention.   We have been in economic crisis many times before, and the pain it causes is nothing like the results of a fatal infection.   I am sure if you were of the latter status, your opinion would be very different.

Edited March 22, 2020 by cannuck

[Yzermandius19]

19 minutes ago, cannuck said:

As much as I enjoy throwing barbs at politicians of any kind, this is one time where their response is appropriate, but inadequate, not overblown.

Nope. Totally inappropriate and completely overblown. The panic does not fit with the actual danger of the threat. Governments are pandering to the panickers, and the panickers of course think this is a good idea, but they would think that wouldn't they?

Edited March 22, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Argus]

25 minutes ago, cannuck said:

  Also: think of the Chinese "hospital in 10 days".   That was done to keep the infected patients SEPARATE from the overall hospitalized community - and we have no such ability or intention. 

We don't need to build a hospital building from scratch. We can use some of the now empty buildings, like hotels and convention centres.

[Argus]

9 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Nope. Totally inappropriate and completely overblown. The panic does not fit with the actual danger of the threat.

What do you imagine the actual danger is? I read this virus is as deadly as the Spanish flu but more contagious.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Argus

[Yzermandius19]

12 minutes ago, Argus said:

What do you imagine the actual danger is? I read this virus is as deadly as the Spanish flu but more contagious.

The virus seems to be less deadly than the Spanish flu, especially to those who aren't old or with underlying conditions. Something like 99% of the people dying in Italy are either old or have underlying conditions, this is barely touching young healthy people or even kids, the Spanish flu on other hand was more deadly the healthier and younger you are, as it used a healthy body's defenses against itself which resulted in a large amount of deaths, on top of taking out the old.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, marcus said:

Our government failed like most other governments did. Definitely not as bad as the governments down South. Our government had the benefit of seeing other countries experiencing the epidemic ahead of them. They didn't move fast enough. 

At the same time, other variables should also be noted, like: The citizens of countries like China, Taiwan, The Koreas, Japan and Singapore are for the most part, obedient to their government. They are less individualistic and more collective. 

Mass testing and masks for everyone are essential to control the spread. We still lack those and so we will continue to see the numbers climb up quickly.

It was clear to me very early on that we'd do worse at containing this virus than authoritarian governments. Short term thinking of a partisan nature is our biggest Achilles Heel.  The more partisan and tribal things are the worse things will be.

It's not to say we need to be more socialist or less individualist we just need to be more appreciative of our ability to switch it up on occasion and when circumstances call for it without coming unglued.  How hard can it be?

[cannuck]

9 minutes ago, Argus said:

We don't need to build a hospital building from scratch. We can use some of the now empty buildings, like hotels and convention centres.

Many of those places have shared air handling systems...thus totally inappropriate for isolation wards.   But, I guess by the time you are infected, it is the staff that needs protection.  Biggest problem I see is the equipment to FILL a convention center.  For that kind of thing, we are totally unprepared.   Further:  I LMFAO about the idea that you can call up a car manufacturer and have them start producing medical equipment overnight.   There is a little something called "tooling", not to mention experience.   Give them a couple of months to set up (as we SHOULD have done) and that would be a very different story.

[cannuck]

5 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

The virus seems to be less deadly than the Spanish flu, ....the Spanish flu on other hand was more deadly the healthier you are, as it used a healthy body's defenses against itself to kill.

As I understand it, this is exactly how the Wuhan Virus works.   Wish I could remember the exact words for the immune response and the link to where I read it.  If I can find, will post.

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, cannuck said:

As I understand it, this is exactly how the Wuhan Virus works.   Wish I could remember the exact words for the immune response and the link to where I read it.  If I can find, will post.

You understand incorrectly. The Wuhan Virus is basically only killing old people with weak or compromised immune systems, the death rate among young people with strong immune systems is around the seasonal flu mortality rate, while Spanish Flu killed these folks in droves. Spanish Flu killed loads of young people and children, Coronavirus kills loads of people with health problems and those of advanced age, totally different.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Argus]

15 minutes ago, cannuck said:

Many of those places have shared air handling systems...thus totally inappropriate for isolation wards.   But, I guess by the time you are infected, it is the staff that needs protection.  Biggest problem I see is the equipment to FILL a convention center.  For that kind of thing, we are totally unprepared.   Further:  I LMFAO about the idea that you can call up a car manufacturer and have them start producing medical equipment overnight.   There is a little something called "tooling", not to mention experience.   Give them a couple of months to set up (as we SHOULD have done) and that would be a very different story.

I didn't suggest they could retool to make ventilators overnight. It'll obviously take a couple of months for retooling, arranging parts supplies, training staff, etc. Still, soonest started, soonest done. But stuff like gowns, masks and hand sanitizer are not complicated and can be made by any number of manufacturers.

Not sure how the shared air handling system works out. Haven't heard of advise for apartment dwellers to block their air vents, for example, in case their neighbor has the virus. I realize it's technically possible for the virus to work its way through the vents but pretty unlikely, especially if the patients are wearing masks or on ventilators.

[Argus]

23 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

The virus seems to be less deadly than the Spanish flu, especially to those who aren't old or with underlying conditions.

It is less deadly only in that our medical science is much better at treating it. As long as health care systems aren't overwhelmed. And young people are not immune. Half the cases hospitalized are under 65.

[Yzermandius19]

8 minutes ago, Argus said:

It is less deadly only in that our medical science is much better at treating it. As long as health care systems aren't overwhelmed. And young people are not immune. Half the cases hospitalized are under 65.

The vast majority of those cases under 65, are among those with underlying conditions. Never said the young folks without underlying conditions were immune either, I said that the mortality rates among that group are very close to seasonal flu mortality rate levels for the general population, in and around 0.2%

Edited March 22, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Rue]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

What do you imagine the actual danger is? I read this virus is as deadly as the Spanish flu but more contagious.

Man that is a tough comparison. They have strong parallels but Spanish flu had blatant symptons, this one does not and there were not the kinds of treatments back then we now have..so say probably just as contagious but not as fatal as the Spanish flu but harder to detect than the Spanish flu  so harder to track or have accurate reports on.

[Rue]

1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said:

The vast majority of those cases under 65, are among those with underlying conditions. Never said the young folks without underlying conditions were immune either, I said that the mortality rates among that group are very close to seasonal flu mortality rate levels for the general population, in and around 0.2%

Most are for serious underlying conditions like arthritis, ms, md, als,heart disease, lupus, cancer, cpd, aids, hyperthyroidism, liver disease, kidney disease, colitis, people with stomach ulcers, measles, untreated v.d. and hypertension, I.e., high blood pressure.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Rue

[WestCanMan]

18 hours ago, eyeball said:

If you say so but the point remains you just stressed the importance of social distancing while also mocking it.

I sure hope you're not in charge of anything important, especially public safety.

 

You see the world through the eyes of a child. 

FYI Trudeau ran for election to be a leader. No one made him do it. 
 

Sometimes it’s hard, but in this instance he simply had to follow the right path after he saw people around him doing it. 

Instead he held press conferences saying it was the wrong thing to do, then he ended up doing it himself after the cat was already outta the bag. 
 

FYI there’s a big difference between “social distancing” and being a coward. Trudeau is being a total coward. 

[WestCanMan]

18 hours ago, Iceni warrior said:

The lack of gay rights in Britain killed the one man who arguably did more to win the war than any other person including Churchill.

A man called Alan Turing who was chemically castrated and comitted suicide as a result of prosecution for merely wanting to have same sex relationships.

We all saw the movie dude, and if Britain had a leader as weak as Trudeau in charge, they wouldn’t have lasted long enough to need Turing. I can promise you that. 

[marcus]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

You see the world through the eyes of a child. 

FYI Trudeau ran for election to be a leader. No one made him do it. 
 

Sometimes it’s hard, but in this instance he simply had to follow the right path after he saw people around him doing it. 

Instead he held press conferences saying it was the wrong thing to do, then he ended up doing it himself after the cat was already outta the bag. 
 

FYI there’s a big difference between “social distancing” and being a coward. Trudeau is being a total coward. 

I don't think I have ever seen you say anything positive about Trudeau. I see you try to blame Trudeau for everything negative that happens. I do wonder what your thoughts are on Trump and his response to COVID-19. 

[eyeball]

55 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

FYI there’s a big difference between “social distancing” and being a coward.

Ok but you still haven't explained the difference that would make you take social distancing seriously on the one hand while mocking it with the other.

[cannuck]

5 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

You understand incorrectly. The Wuhan Virus is basically only killing old people with weak or compromised immune systems, the death rate among young people with strong immune systems is around the seasonal flu mortality rate, while Spanish Flu killed these folks in droves. Spanish Flu killed loads of young people and children, Coronavirus kills loads of people with health problems and those of advanced age, totally different.

It was Dr. Michael Osterholm (Prof emeritus of just about everything in public medicine at U Min) who was speaking, and explained that the auto-immune response form Wuhan Virus was what complicated people with the greatest reaction.   To those who have only a minor event, it is "just" a viral inconvenience.

[cannuck]

8 hours ago, Argus said:

Not sure how the shared air handling system works out. Haven't heard of advise for apartment dwellers to block their air vents, for example, in case their neighbor has the virus. I realize it's technically possible for the virus to work its way through the vents but pretty unlikely, especially if the patients are wearing masks or on ventilators.

This is why people in cruise ships have such high infection rates.   Also why you don't quarantine them ON the ship, you get them the hell off of that float petri dish.   On the mask thing:  makes essentially no difference at all for inhalation exposure.  I looked it up this afternoon and the Wuhan Covid virus is about 100 nanometers in dia (0.1 microns).   That is 1/3 of the size of the 0.3 microns that an 95 mask will block 95% of the time.  You would need ultrafiltration cartridges and a rubber sealed and tested mask to be anywhere near blocking it for inhalation.   What they CAN do is catch droplets aerosolized by a cough or sneeze (and, of course the droplets carry the virus.).

Edited March 23, 2020 by cannuck

[Yzermandius19]

3 hours ago, cannuck said:

It was Dr. Michael Osterholm (Prof emeritus of just about everything in public medicine at U Min) who was speaking, and explained that the auto-immune response form Wuhan Virus was what complicated people with the greatest reaction.   To those who have only a minor event, it is "just" a viral inconvenience.

The Spanish Flu killed people with strong immune systems, weaponizing it against them, as well as taking out the weak. The Wuhan Flu kills people with weak immune systems, and is like the seasonal flu to those with strong immune systems, mortality wise. It's not the same at all, and the expert you are talking about doesn't disagree with anything I just said, you just misguidedly think he does, because your comprehension of what he was saying isn't very good.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Shady]

Trudeau’s pandemic team, 

[WestCanMan]

5 hours ago, marcus said:

I don't think I have ever seen you say anything positive about Trudeau. I see you try to blame Trudeau for everything negative that happens. I do wonder what your thoughts are on Trump and his response to COVID-19. 

I absolutely hate Trudeau. 

I know that people dislike Trump because they think he lied about the crowd size at his inauguration and he is crass, but Trudeau is a traitor and a hypocritical scumbag. 

I think it's pathetic that he bought the media off with $1.4B and now he can screw up all day and no one will say a thing. 

His handling of covid has been a complete joke compared to Trump, and yet we have Canadians beaking off about Trump like he somehow did worse than blankie boy. 

I have nothing positive to say about Trudeau Marcus. Not a single thing. He's a fake little maggot.