Did Trudeau Fail His Country On Covid-19

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

People without symptoms going to public places where people have symptoms would not be advisable. 

They do it anyway.

1 hour ago, Boges said:

Anyone with the sniffles will run to an assessment centre just to check. 

And they will be turned away without testing.

1 hour ago, Boges said:

The shortage of medical supplies globally is pretty definitive evidence this pandemic is serious. 

And definitive evidence of this government's lack of preparation.

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

I want strong follow-ship based on an appreciation for principled ethical and moral leadership.  

The left believes the public are not smart enough to make their own decisions and therefore require a strong leader. The right believes people do not require big government to act as a nanny state.

 

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Strong leadership is a left wing concept. It is incompatable with individual rights and freedom. If you want strong leadership, look to China, Russia or North Korea. 

Are you suggesting Singapore's leadership is left wing?

[Rue]

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

This link details where the virus came from early on in BC. 

5 from China, late January - they do not seem to have passed it on.

From early February on, many from Iran; that seems to have resulted in some community transmission. 

A few from Egypt, a few from Europe and India.

So for BC at least, it looks like an earlier ban from China wouldn't have done much good, but a travel ban from Iran might have. 

Although, I don't think we can actually ban our own citizens, can we?

No we could not have and hindsight as you know makes criticism easy. The point is this virus has no real symptoms making detection very difficult.

[Queenmandy85]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

Are you suggesting Singapore's leadership is left wing?

I plead ignorance with regard to Singapore's leadership.

I endorse neither right nor left. Ideology is impracticle. Some problems are solvable by conservative action and some by liberal. Some problems defy solution and sometimes luck makes all the difference. In the current situation, strong government action based on science, seems to have a positive outcome.

Ronald Reagan was considered a great President. He was smart enough to know his limitations and surrounded himself with people who were smarter than he was and he listened to their advice.

[Dougie93]

24 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Ronald Reagan was considered a great President. He was smart enough to know his limitations and surrounded himself with people who were smarter than he was and he listened to their advice.

That was only two people, Nancy and Don Regan.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The left believes the public are not smart enough to make their own decisions and therefore require a strong leader. The right believes people do not require big government to act as a nanny state.

You're a fricken' loon. 

[WestCanMan]

12 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Banning flights from China early on doesn't seem to have helped the US much.  I do think that Canada could have banned gatherings much earlier but realistically would people have put up with that when there were so few cases ?  Were the chief medical officers recommending that ?

If the US is bad off now, just imagine what it would be like there after 45 days worth of plane loads of Chinese flying in and going untested, like they did in Canada. 

Just look at the chart below to see how just one extra case can turn into hundreds.

Quote

Also - the two options above are ridiculous.  1 - obvious solutions don't work; 2 - some random idea is THE solution; PICK ONE ...

Wrong, you mischaracterized the options.

Option 1 says that you don't believe in social distancing and banning international travel, so Trudeau didn't fail us, and option 2 says that you do believe in those things - which means Trudeau failed us. If banning international travel wasn't important 45 days ago then it isn't important now. That's really easy to understand. The necessity to ban international flights didn't change at any point during those 45 days between Jan 31 and March 19th.

[WestCanMan]

8 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Canada must be doing something right. The US has twice  as many cases per capita as Canada. This is mainly due to Trudeau's government listening to people who actually know what they are talking about.

1) Our Health Minster doesn't even have a medical degree and 2), if you believe that Trudeau did the right thing then you don't believe that banning international travel is important and that's contrary to everything that we know about the importance of social distancing. 

Quote

Note to self: Never play poker with the officials standing behind President Trump at the press conference yesterday. When he said he had a feeling that the malaria treatment would be effective and that he was smart, not one of them cracked a smile or gave any perceptible facial reaction. 

He never said that the malaria treatment "would be effective", that's just your own misinterpretation. He said that it's a promising new possibility for treating people who already got covid. 

[WestCanMan]

7 hours ago, dialamah said:

This link details where the virus came from early on in BC. 

5 from China, late January - they do not seem to have passed it on.

From early February on, many from Iran; that seems to have resulted in some community transmission. 

A few from Egypt, a few from Europe and India.

So for BC at least, it looks like an earlier ban from China wouldn't have done much good, but a travel ban from Iran might have. 

Although, I don't think we can actually ban our own citizens, can we?

I read your link, in just the first 6 cases there were several people who travelled directly from China in February, after Trump's travel ban. 

Do the math:

 

[WestCanMan]

7 hours ago, dialamah said:

My favorite part is watching the people onscreen with him.  Sometimes they clearly transmit their inner thoughts. 

Who do you see on the screen with the Coward Of Our Country? No One.

You have nothing tangible to say about Trump so you're trying to say that your ability to read people's faces is proof that Trump is doing a bad job. 

This thread is about the facts & science showing exactly how Trudeau failed us miserably. 

[WestCanMan]

5 hours ago, Rue said:

I do not agree that this anyone's fault. Looking for scapegoats is pointless. I hate Trudeau as a politician but to blame him for what is happening is pointless. He is doing what he is being advised to do. He is doing his best.

I hear ya Rue, but all politicians receive varying opinions from different people. It's their job, as a leader, to choose the right path. That's why we need to choose someone intelligent and pragmatic instead of someone who talks a good game but is an actual scumbag in real life. 

Eg, I give Trump a lot of credit for success vs islamic state, but I do so knowing that the actual plans that were drawn up all came from the minds of his generals, and his job was just to decide when to nod his head. 

Trudeau definitely heard the same counsel that Trump did from at least one source - limit travel from virus hotspots - he just stayed true to form: he took an opportunity to do some virtue signalling even though everyone in this country knew that he was risking the health of Canadians. Much in the same way as he chose to let islamic state terrorists walk free. It makes him look good at the UN, but again it's an obvious risk to Canadians. 

[WestCanMan]

5 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Strong leadership is a left wing concept. It is incompatable with individual rights and freedom. If you want strong leadership, look to China, Russia or North Korea. 

You need strong leadership in any society lol. 

Britain could have had all the gay rights they wanted in 1940, it wouldn't have changed the fact that they needed Winston Churchill, and not Twiggy.

[scribblet]

Trudeau is trying now, but he has a lot to answer for in not closing the border a lot earlier as other countries did.  Dr. Tam  told us that we were racist and xenophobic for wanting a travel ban...   she has a lot to answer for also.

Trump announced a travel ban from China 40 whole days before a pandemic was declared, he got that one right. 

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The left believes the public are not smart enough to make their own decisions and therefore require a strong leader. The right believes people do not require big government to act as a nanny state.

 

You always need a strong, wise leader. Period.

The right believes that the opportunity to run a business and determine your own economic success is important, that laws are important, and that the free market economy has consistently dwarfed socialist economies all throughout history, but they still want to choose a strong leader. 

[bush_cheney2004]

17 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

....Trudeau definitely heard the same counsel that Trump did from at least one source - limit travel from virus hotspots - he just stayed true to form: he took an opportunity to do some virtue signalling even though everyone in this country knew that he was risking the health of Canadians. Much in the same way as he chose to let islamic state terrorists walk free. It makes him look good at the UN, but again it's an obvious risk to Canadians. 

 

I think this cuts to the heart of the matter regardless of what Trump or others did or didn't do.

Justin Trudeau has not demonstrated the ability to place Canadians at the highest priority for this and other issues.    As you indicate, his actions demonstrate not only a continuing virtue signaling narrative for political gain, but an underlying belief system that may be incompatible with making the hard choices for Canadians' interests.  

Justin Trudeau does not have the same stuff as his "just watch me" father.

Edited March 21, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

35 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Who do you see on the screen with the Coward Of Our Country? No One.

No One seems pretty appropriate given all the importance of social distancing you just impressed on everyone don't you think?

[Guest ProudConservative]

54 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I read your link, in just the first 6 cases there were several people who travelled directly from China in February, after Trump's travel ban. 

Do the math:

 

It all comes down to logic, and exponential growth. This is why there needs to be punishments towards sick people who break quarantine.

Edited March 21, 2020 by ProudConservative

[Argus]

58 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Justin Trudeau has not demonstrated the ability to place Canadians at the highest priority for this and other issues.

 

 

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

No One seems pretty appropriate given all the importance of social distancing you just impressed on everyone don't you think?

Trudeau is leading from behind his blankie. Love him all you want.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Trudeau is leading from behind his blankie. Love him all you want.

If you say so but the point remains you just stressed the importance of social distancing while also mocking it.

I sure hope you're not in charge of anything important, especially public safety.

 

[Shady]

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Banning flights from China early on doesn't seem to have helped the US much.  I do think that Canada could have banned gatherings much earlier but realistically would people have put up with that when there were so few cases ?  Were the chief medical officers recommending that ?

We also could have sealed off the borders, but the above questions remain.  

Also - the two options above are ridiculous.  1 - obvious solutions don't work; 2 - some random idea is THE solution; PICK ONE ...

How do you know it didn’t help?  That’s completely illogical.

[Shady]

16 hours ago, Iceni warrior said:

We banned flights from China early on and put those returning on special flights into strict quarantine but it didn't help us much. The virus arrived here in the UK via Italy instead.

I suspect that only a worldwide shutdown of all international travel would have made any real difference.

No, flights from China weren’t banned early on.  It wasn’t until much later.

[Iceni warrior]

7 minutes ago, Shady said:

No, flights from China weren’t banned early on.  It wasn’t until much later.

We stopped flights from China at thye end of January and put all returnees into quarantine.

The virus came to the UK via holiday makers going on skiing trips to Italy.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Iceni warrior

[Iceni warrior]

4 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

You need strong leadership in any society lol. 

Britain could have had all the gay rights they wanted in 1940, it wouldn't have changed the fact that they needed Winston Churchill, and not Twiggy.

The lack of gay rights in Britain killed the one man who arguably did more to win the war than any other person including Churchill.

A man called Alan Turing who was chemically castrated and comitted suicide as a result of prosecution for merely wanting to have same sex relationships.