The Coronavirus

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, Independent1986 said:

if he made the right calls or not, is too early to tell.

OMFG, he told people not to wear masks and left the border open.

No other leader on the planet was that stupid. He was the only one. Hundreds of countries, only one leader dumb enough to blindly follow the advice of the WHO (they have been permanently cut off by the US now, and rightfully so.)

[Independent1986]

6 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

OMFG, he told people not to wear masks and left the border open.

No other leader on the planet was that stupid. He was the only one. Hundreds of countries, only one leader dumb enough to blindly follow the advice of the WHO (they have been permanently cut off by the US now, and rightfully so.)

Why are you blaming Trudeau ? Blame CSIS. Every politician sits down with his intelligence agencies, gets the information and then sings like a parrot. 

A lot of people are blaming the political class, but how about the intelligence agencies, who holds them responsible ?

Edited May 30, 2020 by Independent1986

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

So what's Canada's excuse, #12 in the world for deaths per million, even after worshiping the WHO ?   

I guess the WHO wasn't much help for long term care facilities, eh ?

I'm not aware of anyone making excuses and certainly none that blame the WHO for our shoddy elder care. We all knew that was happening long before COVID-19 took advantage of the situation.

[WestCanMan]

31 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

Why are you blaming Trudeau ?

Because dozens of other countries did the right things. Because it is basic common sense. Because everyone should realize that bringing people directly into your country from the centre of a pandemic is just incredibly stupid. Because drs and nurses and lab techs have been wearing masks fr 100 years. 

Instead of following Taiwan, Japan, the US, Australia, etc, etc, etc, Trudeau called them racist. Or else he called Trump racist for doing the same thing that other people were doing. Either way, Trudeau is an idiot.

I knew it was stupid. I said as much many many times before Tam admitted it.

This wasn't a difficult call. It was really easy.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

But they did catch it, what the frigg are you even talking about?

/facepalm

The WHO simply passed on to its member nations what was reported to it - it did it's job in other words. I posted links to news stories weeks ago reporting Trump administration officials calling bullshit on Trump's assertions about the WHO being in cahoots with China.  There were dozens of Americans working at the highest levels of the WHO during the time it was allegedly under China's control and that is not what they caught.

You like to foist yourself off as an intelligent person around here so what's your explanation for how the WHO was taken over by China with so many apparently suspicious Americans on the scene?  Incompetence is the only answer that doesn't involve the post-it note and string salad of Deepstate globalist collusion and conspiracies usually served up around here.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Well, if you know something the rest of world doesn't, I'm willing to listen. How so?

Don't take it from me, take it from American officials who were on scene at the WHO and who reported to US media that Trump knew everything the WHO knew when the WHO knew it.  Trump said otherwise to cover his own missteps and blunders such as downplaying concerns over the outbreak declaring it was all under control and cultivating a false sense of security.

[OftenWrong]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

The WHO simply passed on to its member nations what was reported to it - it did it's job in other words. I posted links to news stories weeks ago reporting Trump administration officials calling bullshit on Trump's assertions about the WHO being in cahoots with China.  There were dozens of Americans working at the highest levels of the WHO during the time it was allegedly under China's control and that is not what they caught.

It's an international organization, what are they supposed to fo, cut their throats at the first sign of trouble? They should make sure there is a real problem before taking a radical step like this. The world is full of bullshit information being peddled by countries like China, and naive people such as yourself.

[Zeitgeist]

17 hours ago, taxme said:

 

Do your own homework. Go check yourself. on the internet as I have done. 

It is a well known fact that vaccines cause injury and death. Go check yourself on the internet as I have done. 

I really despise pro-vaxxers. They have to be some of the most silly and stupid people on earth. Injecting foreign substances into your body is totally bloody ridiculous. Just saying. 

Buddy, vaccines have eliminated major diseases and saved millions of lives.  Stop reading unsubstantiated claims on the internet.  Read research-based scientific articles.  

[Zeitgeist]

8 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Because dozens of other countries did the right things. Because it is basic common sense. Because everyone should realize that bringing people directly into your country from the centre of a pandemic is just incredibly stupid. Because drs and nurses and lab techs have been wearing masks fr 100 years. 

Instead of following Taiwan, Japan, the US, Australia, etc, etc, etc, Trudeau called them racist. Or else he called Trump racist for doing the same thing that other people were doing. Either way, Trudeau is an idiot.

I knew it was stupid. I said as much many many times before Tam admitted it.

This wasn't a difficult call. It was really easy.

You keep leaning on Trump’s limited travel bans as justification for his other misteps.  China did a fairly good job of containing its spread through drastic measures our society wouldn’t accept. Italy did not, which is likely the origin of the cases in the eastern US.  Once the virus is in your country, which likely happened before we recognized the severity of the threat, it’s up to public health policy to slow or stop the spread.  That’s the heart of the matter.  How prepared were countries in terms of testing, tracking, availability of PPE, ventilators, and effective hygiene/social distancing policy?  How quick were countries that weren’t prepared to scale up in all those aforementioned areas? Yes there are certain things we couldn’t do much about, such as population density.

The attack on the WHO or those who don’t share Trump’s narrow definition of public safety is mostly a distraction and scapegoating.  We need widely available information and control of the virus.  The WHO provided information, test kits, and health measures, albeit in an imperfect and incomplete way. Squeezing funding from that organization is reckless and incompetent. Nevertheless, we’ve seen this show before.

We’re all trying to choose between competing approaches to the virus, and the deaths and economic hardship have focused our attention.  We need to stay focused on positive solutions going forward rather can recriminations for past mistakes that are water under the bridge.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

You keep leaning on Trump’s limited travel bans as justification for his other misteps.  China did a fairly good job of containing its spread through drastic measures our society wouldn’t accept. Italy did not, which is likely the origin of the cases in the eastern US.  Once the virus is in your country, which likely happened before we recognized the severity of the threat, it’s up to public health policy to slow or stop the spread.  That’s the heart of the matter.  How prepared were countries in terms of testing, tracking, availability of PPE, ventilators, and effective hygiene/social distancing policy?  How quick were countries that weren’t prepared to scale up in all those aforementioned areas? Yes there are certain things we couldn’t do much about, such as population density.

The attack on the WHO or those who don’t share Trump’s narrow definition of public safety is mostly a distraction and scapegoating.  We need widely available information and control of the virus.  The WHO provided information, test kits, and health measures, albeit in an imperfect and incomplete way. Squeezing funding from that organization is reckless and incompetent. Nevertheless, we’ve seen this show before.

We’re all trying to choose between competing approaches to the virus, and the deaths and economic hardship have focused our attention.  We need to stay focused on positive solutions going forward rather can recriminations for past mistakes that are water under the bridge.

Your post just shows that you don't know wtf you're talking about ZG.

Japan didn't even ban all of China, just Hubei province. That's all they had to ban, because China also had a ban on Hubei province.

TRAVEL BANS WORK.

MASKS WORK.

What other mis-steps?

 

 

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It's an international organization, what are they supposed to fo, cut their throats at the first sign of trouble? They should make sure there is a real problem before taking a radical step like this. The world is full of bullshit information being peddled by countries like China, and naive people such as yourself.

So you can't explain how or why so many Americans at the WHO could have missed China's takeover of the organization and its deliberate spread of COVID-19 disinformation either?  You have no evidence the WHO is guilty of this at all, you just know it is and that's all there is to it.  What radical step and real problem are you talking about exactly? There was no problem at the WHO the real problem was in the White House which the Americans at the WHO pointed out when Trump started spreading horseshit about WHO's complicity with China.  Whistleblowing and speaking truth to power is radical to you?  The irony is just how radical whistleblowing and speaking truth to power is in the CCP.

You have some nerve talking about naivety. 

Edited May 30, 2020 by eyeball

[Infidel Dog]

I'm having problems with the Prog logic here.

Americans were working somewhere in the WHO so the WHO couldn't be favoring China, is that the point? 

There are Chinese friendly American lobbyists, Democrats and media people up and down the scale pushing Chinese propaganda. How does that make the lies true?

And WHO didn't just fall in line with Chinese lies because they were duped like everybody else was. They pushed the lie that the ChiComm virus wasn't spreading human to human without doing any investigation. They danced and cheered about what a wonderful job the ChiComms were doing when there was no evidence for it because The ChiComms wouldn't let investigators in or share pertinent information. Even reporters were evicted while the public faces at The Who were giving the ChiComms tongue baths in the media.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[New World Disorder]

20 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Well, now you've got me confused. Are you backpedaling on this previous comment? "In light of how badly the US has handled it's outbreak." I wouldn't blame you if you were because there's no real truth to it, but can you explain to me why some people keep making it?

The US is going through a different kind of outbreak now. All of a sudden, no one seems to be talking about the covid!

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

I'm having problems with the Prog logic here.

Americans were working somewhere in the WHO so the WHO couldn't be favoring China, is that the point? 

No, the point is that Trump Administration officials working at the highest levels of the WHO called bullshit on Trump's claim that the WHO and China were/are in cahoots.  The problem you're having isn't with logic it's that something about this revelation gets your goat.

Further to the point is what should be a useful exercise in critical thinking; asking yourself how so many high ranking American officials at the WHO could have possibly missed this mythical collusion between China and the WHO?

Nobody who has their tongue up Trump's ass around here has even tried to answer that. Trump's bum is just too tasty I guess.

[eyeball]

22 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

And WHO didn't just fall in line with Chinese lies because they were duped like everybody else was. They pushed the lie that the ChiComm virus wasn't spreading human to human without doing any investigation. They danced and cheered about what a wonderful job the ChiComms were doing when there was no evidence for it because The ChiComms wouldn't let investigators in or share pertinent information. Even reporters were evicted while the public faces at The Who were giving the ChiComms tongue baths in the media.

 

Quote

 

15 times Trump praised China as coronavirus was spreading across the globe

The president has lambasted the WHO for accepting Beijing’s assurances about the outbreak, but he repeated them, as well.

 

 

[Infidel Dog]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No, the point is that Trump Administration officials working at the highest levels of the WHO called bullshit on Trump's claim that the WHO and China were/are in cahoots.  The problem you're having isn't with logic it's that something about this revelation gets your goat.

Further to the point is what should be a useful exercise in critical thinking; asking yourself how so many high ranking American officials at the WHO could have possibly missed this mythical collusion between China and the WHO?

Nobody who has their tongue up Trump's ass around here has even tried to answer that. Trump's bum is just too tasty I guess.

Well thanks for finally being specific. Now show me what you're talking about. You say there are Americans in the WHO who support the Chinese side over the American one. I'm interested. Show me what you're talking about. Give me a link to what you're claiming so we can talk specifics some more.

Are they just being diplomatic like Trump has been on occasion or have they bought into Chinese propaganda, or are they just shifty as some in the media and the opposition are. Do they find it politically or personally expedient to lie? I don't think they are supporting China's lies out of honor but if you have some evidence they are, show me.

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Well thanks for finally being specific. Now show me what you're talking about. You say there are Americans in the WHO who support the Chinese side over the American one.

No I said they called bullshit on Trump.

Here is what I'm talking about.

Quote

 

More than a dozen U.S. researchers, physicians and public health experts, many of them from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, were working full time at the Geneva headquarters of the World Health Organization as the novel coronavirus emerged late last year and transmitted real-time information about its discovery and spread in China to the Trump administration, according to U.S. and international officials.

A number of CDC staffers are regularly detailed to work at WHO in Geneva as part of a rotation that has operated for years. Senior Trump-appointed health officials also consulted regularly at the highest levels with the WHO as the crisis unfolded, the officials said.

The presence of so many U.S. officials undercuts President Trump’s charge that the WHO’s failure to communicate the extent of the threat, born of a desire to protect China, is largely responsible for the rapid spread of the virus in the United States.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/americans-at-world-health-organization-transmitted-real-time-information-about-coronavirus-to-trump-administration/2020/04/19/951c77fa-818c-11ea-9040-68981f488eed_story.html

 

 

[-TSS-]

The thing I'm afraid of here in Finland is the cry wolf-phenomenon.

Namely, people were scared absolutely shitless in March, there was all the panic-buying and other things of mass-hysteria, but until now there have been something like 300 corona-related deaths here in Finland. Many of those people have been old anyway.

The weather is getting very nice and the news are about how the epidemic is falling. If, hopefully not when, there is a second wave and people are told to take measures there could be an attitude that as there was nothing the first time around why should be there later. 

If we really get away this easily compared to many other countries we will have to listen to praises for our feminist-government how good their leadership has been, which of course is total nonsense, but I still prefer that to a serious second wave.

[Infidel Dog]

27 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No I said they called bullshit on Trump.

Here is what I'm talking about.

 

Thanks for the link but you forgot to post his bit from the WaPo article:

Quote

In a statement provided to The Washington Post after online publication of this article, Caitlin B. Oakley, a spokeswoman for the Department of Health and Human Services, confirmed that in January, HHS had 17 staff members, including 16 from the CDC, at the WHO, “working on a variety of programs, including covid-19 and Ebola.” She emphasized that the staff members were not “decision-makers.”

“Furthermore, I’d add that just because you have Americans embedded in WHO providing technical assistance does not change the information you are getting from WHO leadership,” Oakley said in an email. “We have learned now that WHO information was incorrect and relied too heavily on China.” Questioning why the WHO “did not press China harder,” she said that “the lack of transparency aided and abided by WHO leadership hampered understanding of the virus and delayed the global response.”

China “stalled for weeks” in allowing WHO experts to visit in January and February, Oakley said, “and the WHO never criticized them for the delay and even praised China for its ‘transparency.’ ”

but yes, I did also read this that followed from the Wapo opinionator masquerading as a journalist:

Quote

Until recently, Trump has repeatedly praised China for “working really hard” on the virus, and during this same period offered thanks for “their efforts and transparency.”

“It will all work out well,” he tweeted in late January. “On behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi.”

 

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Your post just shows that you don't know wtf you're talking about ZG.

Japan didn't even ban all of China, just Hubei province. That's all they had to ban, because China also had a ban on Hubei province.

TRAVEL BANS WORK.

MASKS WORK.

What other mis-steps?

 

 

You’re a Trump Republican apologist who favours ideology over science.  

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re a Trump Republican apologist who favours ideology over science.  

I'm a guy stating facts that you can't dispute. 

What are "the miss-steps"? FYI you can't just make a vague accusation like that in hopes that no one notices. This isn't a liberal echo chamber where you can refer to any random heinous Trumpian deed that you just made up and the sycophant horde will nod their empty heads in unison. 

I pointed out core issues on which Trudeau blatantly failed us. Tam even admitted it. Yet you're pointing attention away, towards "vague bullshit that's of little or no consequence, if it's even true". 

It appears that you're a lib propagandist with no facts to speak of, so you've gone back to plan A - the ad hominem bullshit attack. 

[taxme]

8 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Buddy, vaccines have eliminated major diseases and saved millions of lives.  Stop reading unsubstantiated claims on the internet.  Read research-based scientific articles.  

Buddy, you need to wake the fuk up. This has nothing to do with any virus or health but more to do with changing how the world is going to be ruled and controlled by the deep state globalists in this new normal times. Sports events, concerts and huge gatherings will not be allowed anymore. The new normal is telling you that if you do not take your vaccine shot you will never be able to get back to the good old days. There is talk that if you cannot show proof that you are immune from the China virus or have taken your vaccine shot you will not be able to board a plane. One way or the other those globalists are determined to make sure that the whole bloody world will be vaccinated or else you can stay the hell at home.

Probably that will even happen if you want to drive into America. Got your immunity ID vaccine papers, sir/madam? No? Turn around and go back to Canada. Stay home, social distance, and wear your masks are here to stay unless the trained Canadian seals out there say enough already, and tell the globalists and your politicians to take their China virus and shove up the you know what. I have already and many more have also. 5G is also something to think about. Everywhere they have been mounted those 5G towers people have been getting sick. In the UK they are being burned down buy the locals or having them removed. You need to start using the internet to further educate yourself about this hoax of this virus. 

How can you really say that the facts that you are reading are really honest to goodness well known and true facts? Scientists and experts have fukd up many times in the past or have even lied. Come on,  man, use your brain. How does a virus get to shut the whole world down? How come the world never shut down when there have been other viruses that have come on the scene. If you are unable to see the bull shit in all of this, well one day you are going to make a great globalist comrade that is if you are not one already.  Just wondering. 

 

[Independent1986]

13 hours ago, taxme said:

This has nothing to do with any virus or health but more to do with changing how the world is going to be ruled and controlled by the deep state globalists in this new normal times. 

Where do you get your information from ? I thought Alex Jones is off the air.

[OftenWrong]

19 hours ago, New World Disorder said:

The US is going through a different kind of outbreak now. All of a sudden, no one seems to be talking about the covid!

I’m sure the rioters are being diligent  with social distancing, as I saw they were all wearing masks

[Michael Hardner]

19 hours ago, eyeball said:

Nobody who has their tongue up Trump's ass around here has even tried to answer that. Trump's bum is just too tasty I guess.

  What you have to start taking seriously, eyeball, is that these people are not reachable.  The window has moved so much that we're now in the era of street violence to resolve social issues.  Politics has ended: they couldn't even use it to unify people on a common pandemic so they will have to just wait to see who wins the street fight.

 
  As I have said, you can't look inside a person's heart.  So, they may not be wilfully lying.   They might just be delusional, wilfully ignorant, and stupid ... if we are being optimistic here.