Warning to All MLW Members - Fear and the Cronavirus

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It's ok for you to hate right wingers though- because they're not a race, that makes it ok.

At least you can assert that they have values, behaviours and undertake actions that warrant a reaction.

You can't generalize so easily based on skin colour, eye colour or religion.  

I personally like reasonable people above all, whether religious, political or whatnot.  They will hopefully ascend again in this crisis.
 

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It's ok for you to hate right wingers though- because they're not a race, that makes it ok.

Okay.

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You can't generalize so easily based on skin colour, eye colour or religion.

Agreed but I think we can generalize to a certain extent based on people's cultural values, and the nation's political system, which are linked of course. Authoritarian systems discourage the growth of the individual. This is what I think. And this leads to a lack of true expertise on the ground, where it is most needed in emergencies. Let me put that another way- Incompetence among the proletariat is unwise, in a high-tech society.

====

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by OftenWrong

[Michael Hardner]

16 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. Agreed but I think we can generalize to a certain extent based on people's cultural values, and the nation's political system, which are linked of course.

2. Authoritarian systems discourage the growth of the individual. This is what I think. And this leads to a lack of true expertise on the ground, where it is most needed in emergencies.

3. Let me put that another way- Incompetence among the proletariat is unwise, in a high-tech society.

1. Agreed - but not easily.  And, if you haven't noticed, people hate it when an outsider makes generalizations about them.  "OK Boomer" is the latest example.  I think there's something to be said for discussing, let's say, "group characteristics" in some contexts but it's extremely difficult to pull off such discussions.

2. I agree with the first part, but the second part is a bit of a leap. You can, for example, make a general observation about China, its people, its culture and its practices all together. Authoritarian systems for sure are part of that, especially post 1948.  The results, though, conflate a lot of factors and come to a conclusion that there is a "lack" where it is "most needed".  You are necessarily looking through your own cultural lens there.  They may say that our culture is selfish-minded and won't comply with health directives.  But ok.

3. And incompetence and ignorance at the top is also deadly.

[Guest ProudConservative]

Well i'm at my cottage, and not planning on returning to Toronto until at least September. I'm impatiently waiting for the ice to melt, so I can paddle across the bay. Every country of the world needs to do what Italy is doing, we should begin the lock downs now, so we have a chance of killing this virus. The longer we wait, the more the economy will suffer.

[Guest ProudConservative]

With the CDC saying it will probably take 1.5 years to develop the vaccine, one has to wonder why we aren't conducting vaccine experiments on prisoners? I don't get why we waste precious months doing animals tests, when we could just vaccinate the pedophiles and murderers?

If they die, then the die. If they live, well perhaps we could let them out of prison early for their participation.

You wouldn't ever have to force them to take vaccines. Give them the option. If they survive the vaccine Trial, they get out of prison early. I'm sure a bunch of them would sign up, and it could potentially save millions of lives. Canada could start this right away.

It makes no sense why Americans execute prisoners, instead of offering them vaccines in exchange for a life sentence.

If we did this perhaps we could make vaccines cheaper, and get them out in 4 months, once a virus starts... Instead of having drug companies wait for federal funding, before researching new vaccines.

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by ProudConservative

[PIK]

Start with trudeau and sophie.

[PIK]

52 minutes ago, Shady said:

Which other groups of people do you wish genocide on?  You're fucked in the head.  Seriously.

Meanwhile the left fixes everything that is not broken. lol

[bush_cheney2004]

32 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

With the CDC saying

...If we did this perhaps we could make vaccines cheaper, and get them out in 4 months, once a virus starts... Instead of having drug companies wait for federal funding, before researching new vaccines.

 

 

CDC is American, not Canadian.    Canada has the PHAC, which was created after the SARS fiasco in Ontario in 2003. 

When many elderly people were dying from swine flu in 1976, members of the U.S. military (including me) were used to test a new swine flu vaccine.   President Ford received his vaccine injection on television to assuage fears about the new vaccine.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

Liberal government in Canada can declare an existential threat over climate change 50 years from now, but refuses to act for a pandemic happening right now.

Freeland is butt-hurt because Trump did not notify Canada about the EU travel ban.   Poor dear !

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Liberal government in Canada can declare an existential threat over climate change 50 years from now, but refuses to act for a pandemic happening right now.

Freeland is butt-hurt because Trump did not notify Canada about the EU travel ban.   Poor dear !

The US has its own problems with test kit shortages.  Trump is far too ignorant to be making pronouncements on Covide-19 testing and measures.  The CDC fucked up royally not accepting kits from the World Health Organization.  Trump may have single-handedly destroyed the European travel industry, yet he may have had no choice.  I don’t know whether travel bans are effective.  Screening and self-quarantine are, and numerous directives from health authorities that we should follow.  On C-19, we should trust the health and pandemic experts.  Politicians need to get out of the way.  

[Argus]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The US has its own problems with test kit shortages.  Trump is far too ignorant to be making pronouncements on Covide-19 testing and measures.  The CDC fucked up royally not accepting kits from the World Health Organization.  Trump may have single-handedly destroyed the European travel industry, yet he may have had no choice.  I don’t know whether travel bans are effective.  Screening and self-quarantine are, and numerous directives from health authorities that we should follow.  On C-19, we should trust the health and pandemic experts.  Politicians need to get out of the way.  

Of the 17 new cases Ontario just announced, 12 came from foreign visits, and five from contact with them.

Of those 12 cases who got their disease elsewhere and brought it into Canada, 7 came from the US.

This disease is spreading far and wide throughout the US while its incompetent government remains baffled about how to test for it.

I suspect that in a few weeks Europe, South Korea and China will be banning travel from the United States.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

The US has its own problems with test kit shortages.  Trump is far too ignorant to be making pronouncements on Covide-19 testing and measures.  The CDC fucked up royally not accepting kits from the World Health Organization.  Trump may have single-handedly destroyed the European travel industry, yet he may have had no choice.  I don’t know whether travel bans are effective.  Screening and self-quarantine are, and numerous directives from health authorities that we should follow.  On C-19, we should trust the health and pandemic experts.  Politicians need to get out of the way.  

 

OK, but the experts at WHO also screwed up royally by not declaring a pandemic much earlier...because of POLITICS.

No country can test its way out of this...no country has enough beds or ventilators either.

Canada still refuses to impose hard travel bans (because Trudeau still wants that coveted UNSC seat).    Now his own dumb ass is quarantined.

When the horse drawn wagon comes through your neighbourhood, bring out your dead !

 

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

OK, but the experts at WHO also screwed up royally by not declaring a pandemic much earlier...because of POLITICS.

No country can test its way out of this...no country has enough beds or ventilators either.

Canada still refuses to impose hard travel bans (because Trudeau still wants that coveted UNSC seat).    Now his own dumb ass is quarantined.

When the horse drawn wagon comes through your neighbourhood, bring out your dead !

 

You may not be allowed to bring out your dead.  Ask the Italians.  

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You may not be allowed to bring out your dead.  Ask the Italians.  

 

Then we will pile them up in the streets !

The best thing to do now is to flatten the curve and protect at-risk populations like the elderly.

Some of the best information is coming from people who have survived the infection and explained their experience, reducing doomsday anxiety.

Welcome back to a world without vaccine protections, like when I was a kid !

[WestCanMan]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

At least you can assert that they have values, behaviours and undertake actions that warrant a reaction.

You can't generalize so easily based on skin colour, eye colour or religion.  

I personally like reasonable people above all, whether religious, political or whatnot.  They will hopefully ascend again in this crisis.
 

You can easily make the case that certain religions have values, behaviours and undertake actions that warrant a reaction. In fact, there's no excuse for not being acutely aware of that by now.

[WestCanMan]

24 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canada still refuses to impose hard travel bans (because Trudeau still wants that coveted UNSC seat).    Now his own dumb ass is quarantined.

He's self-quarantined because the little prima-donna wants to keep his own fat out of the fire. 

In two weeks he'll poke his head out of his home, and if he sees his shadow he'll run back in and our country will be spared from his stupidity for two more weeks.

Honestly what kind of a leader runs home at the first sign of a "pandemic" that's killing .2% of the people in his own population demographic? His new name is sadinoeL. He's the exact opposite of Leonidas.

Edited March 12, 2020 by WestCanMan

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

He's self-quarantined because the little prima-donna wants to keep his own fat out of the fire. 

In two weeks he'll poke his head out of his home, and if he sees his shadow he'll run back in and our country will be spared from his stupidity for two more weeks.

 

Chief Gray Beard was hiding out even before the virus hit.  

 

[WestCanMan]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Chief Gray Beard was hiding out even before the virus hit.  

 

I wish he'd stay there. As a country we'd be way ahead if he just stole $50B and ran away to a foreign country.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Considering that ALL the initial coronavirus infections in Canada were related to travelers entering Canada and even now overwhelming majority are travelers related I don't understand for God's sake why they didn't close the damn borders/airports when it all started in order to save the close to 40 million who were within the borders??? Better late than never. Close the damn borders or at least impose a mandatory 14 days isolation by law before based on recent statistics 70% of Canadians will be infected and even if 2% die then that is over half a million Canadians will die in less than a year and the responsibility for this will be on the shoulders of decision makers.

Edited March 12, 2020 by CITIZEN_2015

[Shady]

Good thing the Trudeau government is all over this virus problem!

[OftenWrong]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The results, though, conflate a lot of factors and come to a conclusion that there is a "lack" where it is "most needed".  You are necessarily looking through your own cultural lens there.  They may say that our culture is selfish-minded and won't comply with health directives.

I can give real world examples, but some of them would be off-topic. In this context I can cite that the death rate of COVID-19 as evidence of a different kind of sickness altogether. For while there is no cure, there are still life-saving measures that can be taken when a person has pneumonia. There are other examples in Chinese culture that offend common sense, when it comes to controlling the outbreak of disease.

But here is the rub- we live in a modern interconnected world. Fast transport of everything from information to people to goods. What we see in this frightful tale i that we are all much more closely connected than we realize. That means what comes around, goes around and any nation is vulnerable to the shortcomings of others, those who will not abide by modern safety convention, regulations, environmental protection. This means no matter how clean we are, or how much we abide by the rules, if they do not, then we get it anyway.

And it is your modern technological society, your planes and your cars, and your computers and cell phones, and your shoes and your Kleenexes, that make these foul illnesses appear, and get transported to every remote corner of the world.

[Argus]

21 hours ago, eyeball said:

If I heard anyone spewing this bullshit around my grandkids they'd have a nice big face full of me to deal with.

So let me get this straight.  You're offended on behalf of a country whose unhygienic food practices has led to bird flu, sars, and now this latest virus afflicting the world because... because... why exactly? Why do you get angry about the thought of anyone daring to mock or criticize China over this? Because all the deaths in Europe and North America, not to mention all the economic disarray can be laid squarely at the feet of China.

China SHOULD be criticized. SEVERELY. It's got billions of dollars to spread around the world now on various propaganda and influence projects, tens of billions to spend on its military, but it still keeps the kind of unhygienic food practices you might find in a lost Amazonian tribe. Yet their people jet around the world now, carrying their filthy germs with them whenever these practices inspire yet another bloody disease. And no one has the balls to get in their face and tell them they either need to reign this shit in or stay in their own damned, shit-filled country.

 

 

[CITIZEN_2015]

Just now, Argus said:

So let me get this straight.  You're offended on behalf of a country whose unhygienic food practices has led to bird flu, sars, and now this latest virus afflicting the world because... because... why exactly? Why do you get angry about the thought of anyone daring to mock or criticize China over this? Because all the deaths in Europe and North America, not to mention all the economic disarray can be laid squarely at the feet of China.

China SHOULD be criticized. SEVERELY. It's got billions of dollars to spread around the world now on various propaganda and influence projects, tens of billions to spend on its military, but it still keeps the kind of unhygienic food practices you might find in a lost Amazonian tribe. Yet their people jet around the world now, carrying their filthy germs with them whenever these practices inspire yet another bloody disease. And no one has the balls to get in their face and tell them they either need to reign this shit in or stay in their own damned, shit-filled country.

 

 

Not sure how factual it is but I read somewhere that this disease and likely ones before all originating from China initially started from people eating live animals. If true, then What the hell. Live like humans, practice like humans and eat like humans!!!!!.

[SpankyMcFarland]

“Frankly, the testing has been going very smooth”. That was Trump TODAY with Leo Varadkar.