Pipeline protestors need to be jailed

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, jacee said:

Wow. You don't know?!  

Gas is now known to be as bad or worse than coal, because of methane leaks in production and consumption.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/19/world/methane-emissions-humans-fossil-fuels-underestimated-climate-change/index.html

So China is now going from coal to renewables, strongly enforcing their law that renewables must be purchased first.

At the same time, China is buying massive amounts of oil and gas, China's oil imports surged by 9.5% this year, setting a growth record for the 17th year in a row, and China is the worlds biggest oil importer.

[DogOnPorch]

Want to SEE who is polluting the most?

https://earth.nullschool.net/

[Guest]

6 hours ago, jacee said:

Wow. YOU DON'T KNOW?! 

All it takes is for investors to abandon oil and gas for renewable energy investments, when profitability tips to renewables.

All it takes for profitability to tip is to switch some federal subsidies to renewables. 

In a free market, renewables would already be more profitable, but Canada doesn't have a free market in energy, because we are propping up oil & gas with corporate welfare.

When investment tips, the ramp up and rollout of renewables will happen massively and swiftly.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/aug/01/fossil-fuel-subsidy-cash-pay-green-energy-transition

Switching just some of the huge subsidies supporting fossil fuels to renewables would unleash a runaway clean energy revolution

 

6 hours ago, jacee said:

It seems there's a serious lack of knowledge among oil and gas supporters. 

I'm a reality supporter.

"All it takes..."

"All it takes..."

"When investment tips..."

"Switching just some..."

You kinda proved my point there.

That said, if there's a silver lining to the Corona virus, it is that it gives us an idea of what it takes.  Pollution has been seen to drop dramatically over Hubei province, where everything has stopped.  (I think it was NOx, but still...)  I bet we see a noticeable drop in CO2 emissions too, when all travel and gatherings are banned.  But instead of looking around them and saying "hey, we might be twigging something here!", I bet they let travel start up again and let people go back to watching football matches in stadiums when they fix the thing.

Edited March 6, 2020 by bcsapper

[Zeitgeist]

A worldwide recession where millions lose their jobs and companies shut down will reduce greenhouse gas emissions. So would the end of humanity.  Gaia will persist with or without humanity.  We need to be careful that we don’t put fear and stories about what could happen because of global warming (add Coronavirus or other crises) ahead of what is actually happening.  Whatever we do has to be first and foremost about helping people to survive and thrive.  There’s a lot of anti-human sadism out there in the name of “protecting the environment”.  

Edited March 6, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Army Guy]

12 hours ago, jacee said:

So stay home. 

Nobody cares. 

Now that is a liberal type answer, once again how did your rights trump those of others, want to protest then fine take it to the people you have a beef with federal and provincial governments door steps, or their homes, etc...you really think your going to garner more citizens support by blocking rail lines, bridges, etc.... your wrong, it does not work that way. 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

There’s a lot of anti-human sadism out there in the name of “protecting the environment”.  

/facepalm

[Argus]

13 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Our natural gas isn’t fracked.  Wake up!  Warren Buffett just pulled 9 billion from Canadian resource development.  It will take opportunities away from Indigenous.  Talk about shooting yourselves in the feet.  

You're wasting your time. Like most of the Left she couldn't care less about natives except as a handy tool to use against the capitalist system she hates.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Now that is a liberal type answer, once again how did your rights trump those of others,

Because others don't count. When you're way over there on the Left you take up the mantle of noble, godly enabler of all that is good and righteous. Every policy you espouse is designed to 'help' . Therefore, anyone who opposes your policies wants to 'hurt' and is thus evil and must be silenced and made to stop. This is why every group in history which has espoused far left principles has turned into a brutal dictatorship once in power. It's the nature of the ideology. It attracts the soulless who care far more about the ends than the means.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Argus

[Argus]

7 hours ago, jacee said:

So China is now going from coal to renewables, strongly enforcing their law that renewables must be purchased first.

SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China raised its coal-fired power capacity by 42.9 gigawatts (GW), or about 4.5%, in the 18 months to June, connecting new projects to the grid at a time when capacity in the rest of the world shrank, according to a study published on Wednesday.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-climate-change-china-coal/china-coal-fired-power-capacity-still-rising-bucking-global-trend-study-idUSKBN1XU07Y

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China raised its coal-fired power capacity by 42.9 gigawatts (GW), or about 4.5%, in the 18 months to June, connecting new projects to the grid at a time when capacity in the rest of the world shrank, according to a study published on Wednesday.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-climate-change-china-coal/china-coal-fired-power-capacity-still-rising-bucking-global-trend-study-idUSKBN1XU07Y

If only they had some natural gas! 

[Dougie93]

4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Now that is a liberal type answer, once again how did your rights trump those of others, want to protest then fine take it to the people you have a beef with federal and provincial governments door steps, or their homes, etc...you really think your going to garner more citizens support by blocking rail lines, bridges, etc.... your wrong, it does not work that way. 

You don't have a right to protest in Canada, Section 1 of the Charter only extends a right to Peaceful Assembly

It is none the less subject to Section 63 of the Criminal Code;

Any assembly of three or more persons which makes another person fear that they will "disturb the peace tumultuously" is an "unlawful assembly"

Section 31 of the Criminal Code additionally ensures the Queen's Peace is upheld, at the discretion of the police, who will determine who is in breach and/or about to breach.

Right to Protest is an American law, under the 1st Amendment to the threshold of Brandenburg v. Ohio

Perhaps Canadians prefer the American law now, but that is simply Manifest Destiny, American monoculture Information Age Revolution

Edited March 6, 2020 by Dougie93

[taxme]

On 3/2/2020 at 3:14 PM, jacee said:

1 What is it you wanted them to do? Is the feeling mutual? 

2 Horgan is 'the Crown' who has a duty to consult when the government contemplates actions that may infringe on Aboriginal rights - ie, BEFORE he grants the permits.  He didn't.

3 Evidence/links please. 

Horgan has the duty to enforce the law and not just sit back and watch the law being ignored and violated. That is all the evidence you need to know.

Horgan is a socialist so what else can one expect from a socialist except not very much. Horgan should be condemning these terrorists outright and get them removed and out of the way of  those Marxizt terrorists interfering with the movement of the hard working Canadians who have to go to work every day to try and make and earn a living while those lazy good for nothing terrorists get to interfere with those working people every day who probably do not pay any taxes at all. It is the the taxpayer's that are being ignored here. But go ahead and ask Horgan if he really gives a dam? 

[Dougie93]

Even if Horgan failed to uphold the law in any way, that does not impart a mandate to the protestors to breach the Queen's Peace in Unlawful Assembly

Canada is a monarchy, you never have a right to revolution, Canadian law allows for revolution to be put down,  by force as necessary.

All laws are not created equal, jaywalking is not murder,  upholding the Queen's Peace supersedes all other laws in the face of Unlawful Assembly.

Blockading is not Peaceful Assembly, blockading is an act of revolutionary war, at which point, the gloves can come off.

To wit, British North America is in fact a nanny police state, and the nanny is Queen Victoria, Mother Canada.

Three or more persons who are making people nervous, is an Unlawful Assembly, draconian laws, of the British Empire.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Dougie93

[mowich]

19 hours ago, jacee said:

You are such a blatant and clumsy propagandist. And you're still pushing the old line. You need an update. 

World knowledge has changed since this pipeline was conceived in 2012. 

Gas emissions + methane leaks are as bad as coal.

China is going from coal to renewable energy. 

The price of gas is in the toilet and ... flush! 

Fracking is poisoning communities.

The pipeline is already a stranded asset. Flush.

LOL.....tell that garbage to the numerous FN bands who are working towards buying the line which I fully and completely support.  As Stephen Buffalo - head of the IRC - stated "“The pipeline, in my view is safe.  When First Nations own it then they can protect it a lot better,” says Buffalo." 

Buffalo says the fact is, in western Canada, oil and gas is all around First Nations and he believes its warranted they participate.

Buffalo says most of the communities are not trying to be “oil rich tycoons” they’re just trying to tackle issues of poverty, the opioid crisis, missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls.

“As we continue forward, 643 First Nations will not see very much increase in their federal funding under the Indian Act. So, we have to find a different way and economic development is probably our only way and for some of our communities it’s being involved in the sector.  And if that means partnering with a US based company operating out of Calgary, that’s what its going to be” says Buffalo."

aptnnews.ca/2020/03/03/energy-sector-advocate-wonders-whos-pulling-the-strings-in-opposing-oil-and-gas-projects-in-canada/

Best you go peddle your mantra to Stephen who I am more than sure will put you in your place in a heartbeat.

[mowich]

18 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Your attitude represents the reckless new Luddites.  Opportunities will leave.  I hope you have a big trust fund, because good employment will shrink, and eventually, so will welfare and social programs.  

Ah, it's easy for her to whinge about pipelines, oil and natural gas, Zeitgeist she has no skin in the game - unlike a majority of FNs in remote communities who welcome the chance to sign with resource companies.  For all her whinging and finger-pointing, she cares not about the people in those communities and would gladly see them left to live off the public dole.  For shame.

[mowich]

On 3/5/2020 at 10:12 AM, Zeitgeist said:

I’m not even sure it’s the traditional left as I knew it, trying to help workers and the little guy get more opportunities.  That left has been hijacked by radical green elites who don’t need to work and don’t care about the impact of driving away all resource development and driving up the cost of living through massive carbon taxes and regulations.  They are keen to sacrifice the masses for their high-end rarefied real estate.  They will keep the natives poor on their reserves and use them as a symbol of harmony with nature to implement controls over how the masses live, probably in a form of subsistence poverty.  Clever marketing.  

"Buffalo believes there are groups that want to land lock Canada’s natural resources and using environmental concerns to do it.

“And some of our people have been more or less taken, involved in that but spinning to a form that I want to protect mother earth,” says Buffalo.

Buffalo says he has heard of environmental groups coming on reserve and offering $300 per person and “$500 if they’re wearing feathers” to come out and participate in protests."

https://aptnnews.ca/2020/03/03/energy-sector-advocate-wonders-whos-pulling-the-strings-in-opposing-oil-and-gas-projects-in-canada/

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, mowich said:

Ah, it's easy for her to whinge about pipelines, oil and natural gas, Zeitgeist she has no skin in the game - 

Anyone who cares about the environment on this planet has skin in this game.  Perhaps you should move to Mars or perhaps Venus would be more to your liking - no one seems the least bit concerned about CO2 there.

[Army Guy]

20 hours ago, jacee said:

You are such a blatant and clumsy propagandist. And you're still pushing the old line. You need an update. 

World knowledge has changed since this pipeline was conceived in 2012. 

Gas emissions + methane leaks are as bad as coal.

China is going from coal to renewable energy. 

The price of gas is in the toilet and ... flush! 

Fracking is poisoning communities.

The pipeline is already a stranded asset. Flush.

What hole did you pull this from, can you provide a few sources to back this crap up with, or do you make it as you go.. maybe if you spent some time on research you might be taken some what serious... now your just one of those born again environments that have NO clue on what they are talking about.. you hear some message on some back woods media format and then try to spew it on this media platform, only you've forgotten all the good and important parts.  

[Army Guy]

51 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Anyone who cares about the environment on this planet has skin in this game.  Perhaps you should move to Mars or perhaps Venus would be more to your liking - no one seems the least bit concerned about CO2 there.

Maybe if all you tree huggers would get on the same page, you don't like coal but your province is one of the largest west coast exporters of coal, but lets not protest that....I  mean you also hate natural gas and jobs, lets not mention investment in your province to the tune of 40 bil dollars, the largest investment in Canada....you pissed that away...natural gas is it not cleaner  than coal, can't be doing that …..but you hate that, you don't like fossil fuels at all, but you can't get by for one day without them, you don't like nuclear power because it's dirty and dangerous, shit some of you don't even like hydro power, because what it does to the environment.... but one thing for sure you love your power, gotta to keep that phone charged....love driving your fossil fuel cars and bikes, ....your not environmentalists, your hypocrites like the rest of us.  let us enjoy our last years in peace. without all the bleating and tears....Nobody cares enough about climate change to make a difference. , Oh they say they do, but they are just hypocrites as well  . Because they do not want to sacrifice what it takes , not just Canadians but around the globe....  

Edited March 6, 2020 by Army Guy

[eyeball]

16 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Maybe if all you tree huggers would get on the same page, you don't like coal but your province is one of the largest west coast exporters of coal, but lets not protest that...

...you don't like nuclear power because it's dirty and dangerous...

Why not protest that? Get off your ass and boycott BC, please. I've also repeatedly said the only issue I have with nuclear power is slipshod oversight of the industry and especially oversight of the government regulators.

I honesty don't think you people care about accountability anymore than you do the environment.

Everything else you said is just a bunch of left-wing derangement syndrome hooey.

[Zeitgeist]

Canada is a bit player in the climate change fight.  We will pay a huge economic price for fighting it on our own, and we won’t get results.  Climate has no borders.  Without the superpowers on the task, especially the US and China, the structure of the economy won’t fundamentally change.  The current US administration won’t sign onto the Paris Accord because China faces much more lenient targets under the pact.  Already the US can’t compete on labour costs.  The country doesn’t want to have to take on added regulation and taxation costs.  I want those superpowers to sign onto the same targets, and for all countries to sign onto reducing emissions, so that industry regulations require the same compliance and Canada is playing on a level playing field with similar climate policy.  

This farce of radical activists shutting down cleaner energy distribution such as pipelines, and killing relatively clean energy options like natural gas, will delay real greenhouse gas emissions reductions and eliminate job opportunities for the country’s most vulnerable, including the Indigenous.  Without tax revenue from business there simply won’t be jobs, social programs, or self-sustainability on poorer reserves.  

Edited March 7, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canada is a bit player in the climate change fight.

No we're not.

Quote

 

'Clean hands,' climate change and the problem with saying Canada's not the problem

Andrew Scheer's climate platform for last year's election prominently included a claim that Canada is a "small contributor" to a global problem — supported by a line graph comparing Canada's emissions to the output of China, the United States, India and the European Union.

But such attempts to downplay Canada's contribution have to contend with both the math of global emissions and the example of one of the country's more successful federal conservatives — Brian Mulroney.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/climate-change-carbon-pricing-peter-mackay-conservative-party-1.5482284

 

Canada should build on it's reputation for punching above our weight.

 

Quote

 

"I believe you clean up your own act first before you can expect major concessions from someone with whom you are bargaining," Mulroney said at the time. 

Years later, Mulroney argued that his "clean hands" approach was not merely "the right thing to do" — it undercut American doubts about Canada's motivations, he said, and gave Canada "moral leverage" in its discussions with the United States.

Canada's role in creating the acid rain threat was perhaps more straightforward than its role in climate change, and it may have been easier to convince our closest ally to join our efforts.

But four months ago, Mulroney cited his own approach in the context of global climate change and the responsibility of Canadian leaders.

Reading aloud from a recent media report, Mulroney noted criticism of Canada's climate targets and the fact that Canada's per-capita emissions were second among the G20.

"So, what are we, as Canadians, to do?" Mulroney asked. "Lead."

 

This is the sort of stuff that makes today's right-wing puke in disgust.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Canada should build on it's reputation for punching above our weight.

 

Already does for GHG emissions per capita.   Salute !

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Already does for GHG emissions per capita.   Salute !

 

Well...it was -15 C here this morning...crank that LNG to high.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

No we're not.

Canada should build on it's reputation for punching above our weight.

 

This is the sort of stuff that makes today's right-wing puke in disgust.

I’m all for sensible policies that fight climate change whilst serving other purposes, such as helping us cut commute times, move people and goods more efficiently, create energy efficient complete communities where workplaces, retail, nature, and agriculture are available locally to residents in vibrant walkable streets. We want a more productive economy and a higher quality of life.

Changing building codes to incorporate green energy will cut energy usage and create greater energy security.  Natural gas will still play an important role, however, because it’s abundant and relatively clean.  Coal should be phased out.  As electric vehicles become cheaper, battery ranges increase, and clean forms of energy production (to charge those batteries) become more widespread, the demand for oil will decrease somewhat, but that supply is finite anyway.  Nuclear will have to be part of the mix. The most advanced green economies can’t currently get to 50% of energy production through green renewable energy without vast available waterways for hydro, and such projects still take an environmental toll, given the masses of concrete and forest/flora clearance. Wind and sun are inconsistent and we don’t have the capacitor tech to store all the energy we don’t use when the sun and wind are full bore.  

As we transition, let’s use pipelines instead of dirtier and more dangerous rail and trucks.  Let’s create economic opportunities through high tech resource development in the hinterland and for Indigenous.  That’s Canada’s bread and butter.  Use some of the revenue to build the green economy of the future.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Zeitgeist