mowich Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Hussain said: I understand your perspective on the issue and I respect it. Lets say they did not steal their land but does the government still treat indigenous people well. Explain the residential schools and the trauma being faced. You do realize that no residential schools exist in Canada today, or do you? Millions of dollars have been paid out to those who attended the schools yet conditions on remote reserves have changed little due to the fact that they have absolutely no way of lifting their communities out of poverty without making use of the resources on in in their lands. If you really care about those communities best you support them in their efforts to find well-paying jobs which will not only improve conditions but address other social issues such as the high rate of suicides on some reserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, mowich said: In 2013, Wet’suwet’en received $886,959 from Pacific Trail Pipelines. In 2014, Wet’suwet’en received $504,259 from Coastal Gaslink. In 2015, Wet’suwet’en received $2,147,042 from Coastal Gaslink and $757,439 from Pacific Trail Pipelines. In 2016, Wet’suwet’en received $59,109 from Coastal Gaslink and $33,560 from Pacific Trail Pipelines. In 2017, Wet’suwet’en received $10,000 from Coastal Gaslink Pipelines In 2018, Wet’suwet’en received $13,000 from Coastal Gaslink Pipelines. PLUS government transfers!!!! After all, it is about the environment!!! The “environment” is the extortion baseball bat. Nevertheless, the Wet’suwet’en who brokered those deals are looking out for their interests. Take away these companies and the money disappears along with them. Of course, the homes still need to be electrified and heated. The demand hasn’t gone away, and if the supply doesn’t come from Canada, it will come from somewhere else, likely at a higher price because supply is reduced. Energy security and self-sufficiency are extremely important. The excuse of “environmental protection” is a great one for stealing that security, and that is happening after environmental assessments met the standards. It’s a scam. I wouldn’t be surprised if foreign powers are using an ignorant fringe on the left to monopolize energy and resource development. Gut your resource development so we can sell more. Canada’s Indigenous and rural residents will take the biggest hit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 16 hours ago, Hussain said: Look, man, I understand your anger. Imagine yourself going home after a hard day of work from Toronto to Ajax and your train stops in the middle because of the protesters. That got your attention right. These protestors need a way to get people's attention. Everyone with a cause wants to get people's attention. That doesn't give them all the right to FORCE their attention on me. 16 hours ago, Hussain said: One day a story is on the news and the next day its gone. These protesters and fighting for their right. No, they're actually not. 16 hours ago, Hussain said: The government stole their land and people don't even know the condition these people live in. They can move into the cities like millions of people from around the world have done, and get jobs and have good lives. If you live out in the boonies where there are no jobs and all you got is welfare then you have no reason to live and nothing to do but drink, fight and fk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowich Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 21 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: The “environment” is the extortion baseball bat. Nevertheless, the Wet’suwet’en who brokered those deals are looking out for their interests. Take away these companies and the money disappears along with them. Of course, the homes still need to be electrified and heated. The demand hasn’t gone away, and if the supply doesn’t come from Canada, it will come from somewhere else, likely at a higher price because supply is reduced. Energy security and self-sufficiency are extremely important. The excuse of “environmental protection” is a great one for stealing that security, and that is happening after environmental assessments met the standards. It’s a scam. I wouldn’t be surprised if foreign powers are using an ignorant fringe on the left to monopolize energy and resource development. Gut your resource development so we can sell more. Canada’s Indigenous and rural residents will take the biggest hit. "The demand hasn’t gone away, and if the supply doesn’t come from Canada, it will come from somewhere else, likely at a higher price because supply is reduced. " I would add it will come from countries whose environmental record in no way compares to the stringent protocols enforced by various levels of our governments. There are well-off Aboriginal communities fighting pipelines without a care for their poorer brethren. They obviously believe that the poorer Aboriginal communities should be left to live off the public dole - monies which never have and never will be able to address all the problems facing remote communities. I have nothing but scorn for those wealthy Aboriginal communities that continue to prolong the suffering and hardship of poorer communities by continuing to impede their ability to make agreements with resource companies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 16 hours ago, Hussain said: Look, man, I understand your anger. Imagine yourself going home after a hard day of work from Toronto to Ajax and your train stops in the middle because of the protesters. That got your attention right. These protestors need a way to get people's attention. One day a story is on the news and the next day its gone. These protesters and fighting for their right. The government stole their land and people don't even know the condition these people live in. Bro search up life on reserves, you can experience that for urself. But yeo if u guys want more information on this type of stuff checks out my youtube channel. this week I'm interviewing MP Mark Holland on the pipeline and other stuff. The channel link is below Yes on some reserves life is difficult, but don't think for a minute that it is this way across the entire country, where we have Chiefs making close to 1 million a year, and the avg chief making 60,000 plus tax free dollars a year, thats not living in poverty I can tell you that... and in a some cases they are making more than the PM, or CEO of major companies. Note these numbers do not include any funds paid for things like land claims , royalties for resource use . https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/salary-tracker-explore-the-earnings-of-first-nations-chiefs-across-canada/article20070005/ https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/267309-tax-free-chief-of-90-member-first-nation-may-be-canadas-highest-paid-politician 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowich Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 5 hours ago, jacee said: I see you drank the colonialist divide-and-conquer koolaid delivered by TCEnergy/Coastal GasLink. It's certainly "all about the money" to the oil and gas industry and they have the money to spend, buying ads on Facebook to tout the support they've bought from elected Band Councils: Groups linked to oil companies funded Facebook ads denouncing the rail blockades https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5484039?fbclid=IwAR1nghzJIEFmG2CvpNTvC-kCmy9oKZeezHU5245LKqA-7_5lwCI_RHRJgSc&__twitter_impression=true The most prolific online advertiser on the pipeline project, by far, is Coastal GasLink itself, which is building the 670-kilometre pipeline that will connect wells in British Columbia to the coast. It has run 80 ads since the start of the year — almost a quarter of all the ads in the data obtained by CBC. It spent roughly $50,000 on ads citing Indigenous support for the pipeline — almost half of all the money spent on Facebook ads about the project and the blockades. Other big spending astroturf organizations - pretending to be 'grassroots', but really financed by wealthy business and industry - include Canada Action and the 'Proud' groups, both associated with oil and gas and land developers. Also a number of Conservative leadership candidates have bought ads supporting oil and gas and opposing Indigenous protests, Peter McKay the biggest buyer, who calls women "dog" (probably loved the 'rape Greta' decals), fan of helicopter fishing paid for by us, and a supporter of vigilante attacks on Indigenous protests. I have a question about those Conservatives using tax deductible (partially publicly funded) campaign funds to buy ads in support of the oil and gas industry: WTF??!! (Aside: It's always been laughable to me how 'war hawk' Conservatives like Scheer, McKay and formerly Harper (or Trump, for that matter) are really not the macho type you'd expect to see in a battle: They're the devious smirking weenies hiding on the sidelines, inciting slow-witted, gullible people to violence: "Let's you and him fight!" Lol But I digress ...) On the other hand, support by climate activists and other Canadians for Indigenous people fighting the gas pipeline is twofold: * concern about fossil fuels' impact on climate change, and other environmental issues (fracking = groundwater contamination, etc) * concern about governments' inaction in recognizing and addressing Indigenous rights already established in Canadian law. They're not wealthy people, industries and politicians trying to cause violence or destroy the world. They're ordinary people, mostly living on a shoestring, opposing government and industry's damage to the earth and its peoples. Groups funding eco-terrorism Tides Foundation, Gordon & Betty Moore Foundation, the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation, the David & Lucile Packard Foundation, the Pew Charitable Trusts, the Rockefeller Brothers, Oak Foundation, Stand.earth, Georgia Strait Alliance, Living Oceans Society, Ecojustice, the Raincoast Conservation Foundation, etc...etc....etc.... https://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/news/local-news/anti-pipeline-funds-flow-from-unexpected-sources-1.23660942 Keep drinking the far left socialist agenda kool-aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowich Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Yes on some reserves life is difficult, but don't think for a minute that it is this way across the entire country, where we have Chiefs making close to 1 million a year, and the avg chief making 60,000 plus tax free dollars a year, thats not living in poverty I can tell you that... and in a some cases they are making more than the PM, or CEO of major companies. Note these numbers do not include any funds paid for things like land claims , royalties for resource use . https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/salary-tracker-explore-the-earnings-of-first-nations-chiefs-across-canada/article20070005/ https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/267309-tax-free-chief-of-90-member-first-nation-may-be-canadas-highest-paid-politician Many of the Aboriginal nations named in the articles are the same ones that deny other Aboriginal communities any right to a better life. Such hypocrisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, mowich said: Groups funding eco-terrorism Tides Foundation, Gordon & Betty Moore Foundation, the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation, the David & Lucile Packard Foundation, the Pew Charitable Trusts, the Rockefeller Brothers, Oak Foundation, Stand.earth, Georgia Strait Alliance, Living Oceans Society, Ecojustice, the Raincoast Conservation Foundation, etc...etc....etc.... https://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/news/local-news/anti-pipeline-funds-flow-from-unexpected-sources-1.23660942 Keep drinking the far left socialist agenda kool-aid. I’m not even sure it’s the traditional left as I knew it, trying to help workers and the little guy get more opportunities. That left has been hijacked by radical green elites who don’t need to work and don’t care about the impact of driving away all resource development and driving up the cost of living through massive carbon taxes and regulations. They are keen to sacrifice the masses for their high-end rarefied real estate. They will keep the natives poor on their reserves and use them as a symbol of harmony with nature to implement controls over how the masses live, probably in a form of subsistence poverty. Clever marketing. Edited March 5, 2020 by Zeitgeist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said: I’m not even sure it’s the traditional left as I knew it, trying to help workers and the little guy get more opportunities. That left has been hijacked by radical green elites who don’t need to work and don’t care about the impact of driving away all resource development and driving up the cost of living through massive carbon taxes and regulations. They are keen to sacrifice the masses for their high-end rarefied real estate. They will keep the natives poor on their reserves and use them as a symbol of harmony with nature to implement controls over how the masses live, probably in a form of subsistence poverty. Clever marketing. We also enjoy bleeding little baby natives and using their blood in rituals that praise and nourish Gaia. There is really nothing quite as capable as this issue when it comes to triggering left-wing derangement syndrome in you people. Edited March 5, 2020 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, eyeball said: We also enjoy bleeding little baby natives and using their blood in rituals that praise and nourish Gaia. There is really nothing quite as capable as this issue when it comes to triggering left-wing derangement syndrome in you people. I knew you were scooping the babies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, mowich said: "The demand hasn’t gone away, and if the supply doesn’t come from Canada, it will come from somewhere else, likely at a higher price because supply is reduced. " I would add it will come from countries whose environmental record in no way compares to the stringent protocols enforced by various levels of our governments. There are well-off Aboriginal communities fighting pipelines without a care for their poorer brethren. They obviously believe that the poorer Aboriginal communities should be left to live off the public dole - monies which never have and never will be able to address all the problems facing remote communities. I have nothing but scorn for those wealthy Aboriginal communities that continue to prolong the suffering and hardship of poorer communities by continuing to impede their ability to make agreements with resource companies. You are such a blatant and clumsy propagandist. And you're still pushing the old line. You need an update. World knowledge has changed since this pipeline was conceived in 2012. Gas emissions + methane leaks are as bad as coal. China is going from coal to renewable energy. The price of gas is in the toilet and ... flush! Fracking is poisoning communities. The pipeline is already a stranded asset. Flush. Edited March 6, 2020 by jacee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 8 hours ago, Argus said: Everyone with a cause wants to get people's attention. That doesn't give them all the right to FORCE their attention on me. So stay home. Nobody cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 Actually, the historical inflation adjusted price of oil has doubled In 1945 oil was $21.20 in inflation adjusted dollars, right now it is $45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, jacee said: China is going from coal to renewable energy. Actually, PetroChina owns a 15% stake in the Coastal GasLink, along with Shell, Petronas, Mitsubishi and Korea Gas Corporation Because in reality, China is switching from coal to Canadian natural gas, if Canada can deliver that is. Edited March 6, 2020 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 59 minutes ago, jacee said: You are such a blatant and clumsy propagandist. And you're still pushing the old line. You need an update. World knowledge has changed since this pipeline was conceived in 2012. Gas emissions + methane leaks are as bad as coal. China is going from coal to renewable energy. The price of gas is in the toilet and ... flush! Fracking is poisoning communities. The pipeline is already a stranded asset. Flush. Our natural gas isn’t fracked. Wake up! Warren Buffett just pulled 9 billion from Canadian resource development. It will take opportunities away from Indigenous. Talk about shooting yourselves in the feet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 40 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Actually, PetroChina owns a 15% stake in the Coastal GasLink, along with Shell, Petronas, Mitsubishi and Korea Gas Corporation Because in reality, China is switching from coal to Canadian natural gas, if Canada can deliver that is. You’re right. Some of the posters don’t know the difference between oil and natural gas and they don’t understand that renewables can only represent a fraction of our energy supply. I can’t believe the stupidity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 59 minutes ago, jacee said: So stay home. Nobody cares. Your attitude represents the reckless new Luddites. Opportunities will leave. I hope you have a big trust fund, because good employment will shrink, and eventually, so will welfare and social programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 24 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Your attitude represents the reckless new Luddites. Opportunities will leave. I hope you have a big trust fund, because good employment will shrink, and eventually, so will welfare and social programs. Nah, a Luddite is someone like me, who eschews Alexa and still reads books. Someone who thinks the world can move off fossil fuels at anything other than a glacial pace is a fantasist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 36 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: I can’t believe the stupidity. Progressivism is faith based It all goes back to the Second Great Awakening 1800-1820 From which springs Christian Socialism It's all about the Temperance Lady All Temperance leads to Hatchetation in the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) In this case, we actually have two Hyper Protestant sects going head to head. French Huguenot Work Ethic : demanding to work themselves to death at the coal face in order to gain entry into Heaven American Puritanical Temperance : demanding prohibition in order to gain entry into Heaven Alcohol has simply been replaced by oil as their new prohibitionist fetish Edited March 6, 2020 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Our natural gas isn’t fracked. Wake up! Wow. YOU DON'T KNOW?! Part of the heavily-subsidized LNG Canada project, CGL is a $6.6-billion pipeline that would ship gas from fracking fields in northeastern B.C. to an export terminal in Kitimat, B.C., locking in an additional 8.6 million tonnes of carbon pollution per year by 2030 and undermining B.C’s and Canada’s insufficient emissions reduction efforts. B.C.’s gas sector is already under fire for causing earthquakes, contaminating water, and leaking methane, a potent greenhouse gas. https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/columnists/opinion-aimcos-stake-in-gaslink-project-isnt-responsible-investing Edited March 6, 2020 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, bcsapper said: Someone who thinks the world can move off fossil fuels at anything other than a glacial pace is a fantasist. Wow. YOU DON'T KNOW?! All it takes is for investors to abandon oil and gas for renewable energy investments, when profitability tips to renewables. All it takes for profitability to tip is to switch some federal subsidies to renewables. In a free market, renewables would already be more profitable, but Canada doesn't have a free market in energy, because we are propping up oil & gas with corporate welfare. When investment tips, the ramp up and rollout of renewables will happen massively and swiftly. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/aug/01/fossil-fuel-subsidy-cash-pay-green-energy-transition Switching just some of the huge subsidies supporting fossil fuels to renewables would unleash a runaway clean energy revolution Edited March 6, 2020 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 It seems there's a serious lack of knowledge among oil and gas supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 Oil is energy stored up in biological matter over hundreds of millions of years, there is no replacement with that energy density which is also scalable Fossil fuel consumption can be reduced, but not replaced, a scalable energy source to replace oil is magical thinking at this juncture, science fiction hand waving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Dougie93 said: Because in reality, China is switching from coal to Canadian natural gas, if Canada can deliver that is. Wow. You don't know?! Gas is now known to be as bad or worse than coal, because of methane leaks in production and consumption. https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/19/world/methane-emissions-humans-fossil-fuels-underestimated-climate-change/index.html So China is now going from coal to renewables, strongly enforcing their law that renewables must be purchased first. It seems that oil and gas Luddites are not keeping up on the fast evolving climate change news. Edited March 6, 2020 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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