Should Don Cherry Have Been Fired?

[Zeitgeist]

I read a Royson James (Toronto Star GTA columnist) column yesterday that called Cherry's comments a kind of racist "dog whistle", as though Cherry was consciously trying to rouse white supremacists everywhere.  While I was sympathetic to James' comments about how minorities have had to endure racist and biased language since the beginning of our shared history, and Cherry's "you people" was yet another example, James' characterizations of Cherry didn't ring true.  As we all have, I'm sure Cherry has unconscious biases, especially as he comes from an older generation, but I don't think he was consciously attacking visible minorities.  Was he calling out immigrants in general for not wearing poppies?  Yes.  Was he right to do this?  He shouldn't have generalized his comments to an entire group of people.  I think back on how Cherry used to complement P.K. Subban on his play and snappy wardrobe.  Cherry never referred to colour.  He did used to attack the European style of hockey, which he considered soft.  No doubt Cherry has a bruttish old school aspect, but that's part of his bombast.  He's a colourful character.  It's sad to see how those two words, "you people", inappropriate but somewhat open to interpretation, can undo the career of someone who has done a lot for hockey development in Canada, including for women and Indigenous.  How quickly it is all dismissed by someone that uses such charged metaphorical language as "dog whistle", which wouldn't be familiar to someone like Cherry in the context James used.  Was it worth it to fire Cherry and lose Coach's Corner?  Are the vast majority of hockey fans happy with this result?  Is it really an improvement on social cohesion and race relations?  I think it would've been better to have a national conversation that involves Cherry and to hear him explain his thinking in dialogue with his critics.  Instead we're using expulsion, which can lead to bigger problems.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[OftenWrong]

Ronnie's show was hard to watch. I nearly shut it off.

Edited November 17, 2019 by OftenWrong

[Michael Hardner]

Not that this is an interesting topic or anything but someone pointed out a few issues with Cherry's observations:

- There are barely any poppies for sale downtown and they only take cash.  Not 100% sure of this but for sure in the banking district there weren't many around.  The Legion needs to get their lazy asses down there and start selling. ABC=Always Be Closing

- There's not enough effort to explain to new immigrants what this day is.  Ironically, Don thinks that they watch Coach's Corner, so he can just tell them there.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I read a Royson James (Toronto Star GTA columnist) column yesterday that called Cherry's comments a kind of racist "dog whistle",

Ah yes, the 'dog whistle' has become one of those new lefty pejorative terms for something they believe is 'meant' to be racist even if it isn't racist. The funny thing about the term is that supposedly only dogs can hear dog whistles yet lefties ears perk up far more readily than those on the right at these alleged racist 'whistles'. Perhaps that's because to much of the Left, everything is about race and power, and thus their ears are constantly attuned to anything that is or can be defined or redefined in racial terms.

Often enough you hear them squeal about something that is a 'racist dog whistle' and then conservative frown at them and say something like "How is that racist" and they'll reply that only racists can hear it, and yet THEY hear it where others don't.

[Right To Left]

12 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Your giving Chretien way to much credit, It was the military that shut him down,  we were not manned or equipped enough for Afghanistan what would make you think we could handle Iraq, which was equipped better than we were, but that is a source of pride in Canada..... that was the Ongoing joke we could always use capture equipment to bring home.... ....It was Chretien that had to save face, and against being advised to stay out of Afghanistan as well due to lack of training and proper equipment he sent us anyways, and it cost more than a few lives in the process...Martin is another liberal that wanted to be the military's friend....He moved us to Kandahar , the home of the Taliban, and we were smack in the middle of it, because it was where we could make the most difference the government said.......I spent 3 tours in that shit hole as an Infanteer and I can tell you the Taliban did not care who you where,  every coalition soldier had a price on their heads including Canadians , You had to be aggressive to survive, read OP medusa...and tell me thats not aggressive.. like I said we were sent by our government  to close with and destroy the bad guys, ALL of the bad guys, we even had the support of the people back home then....then you guys got bored shortly after and we started to pay for that lack of support with our lives..

A lot of the euro nations could not or did not get involved in the fighting....it was all political...we pushed the Taliban out of the Kandahar area , not by handing out blankets and teddy bears, but by putting them in the ground...It was during this time that most of Canadians back home lost interest, sure most of them bought those bumper stickers ,,,, but thats were the support stopped... Afghanistan went from a Canadian mission to a DND mission it was up to our military members to carry this mission, the entire mission costs came out of DND budget, meaning it ran in the red ,  routine training in Canada was stopped, if you we not training to go over to Afghanistan there was no training dollars, no ammo, no nothing no equipment , no training , unless it was free, and today even getting someone opinion cost money.......what DND did not cover,  we the soldiers took out of our pockets , to build fire halls , hospitals , schools, etc all of it paid by our donations...SO when you attack someone , one of the few that supported soldiers , they tend to get defensive...Don Cherry knew all to well the score, he visited the trauma center in Kandahar which was constantly filled...with soldiers in various battle field wounds, he listened to soldiers stories.. For some one dimensional clown, he was passionate about bragging up soldiers, showing support, shaking hands , listening to every soldier story,  more than I can say about the majority of Canadians..  

He has already said he should have chosen his words differently, and if he had to do it over he would....

 

 

It's easy to portray people as animals after they have been subjected to invasions and occupations for 30 years, BUT would there have been a Taleban takeover or non-stop fighting between greedy, ruthless warlord if Afghanistan hadn't been used as a proxy war between the US and the Soviet Union? 

Afghanistan 1970s And Now | Afghanistan Before Taliban: this 5 minute video of life in Afghanistan...focusing primarily on the major cities like Kabul, in the 60's and 70's blows all of the war porn propaganda that these people are innately savages or the "we have to liberate their women crapolla etc." out of the water!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7TDSUqdN2c

Under the comments section I found this one from some dirty hippie who travelled through Afghanistan with a few friends in1971 on their way to "enlightenment" in Katmandu or some bullshit, BUT the story is a match for stories one of my older brothers' friends described when he did something similar in the early 70's:

spellbound 1 year ago

In early 1971, during the Hippie era, I travelled with three friends and my sister overland to Kathmandu in Nepal. Travelling from Herat and Kandahar we reached Kabul. Then we travelled to Mazar e-Sharif and Balkh.  It was an amazing liberal land of modern and ancient. We were made welcome everywhere we went, the people of Afghanistan were wonderful to us in both the cities and the small villages. I wish things could be as it was before those horrible wars and let the people of Afghanistan have peace, freedom and happiness once again.

 

Aside from all that, what I do know of Operation Medusa was that it was an ATTACK led by Canadian Forces. What else do you expect when you go on the attack in a country where you don't know the language, the culture or the history of what's already happened there...as one psychology professional described, people who live in these long term war zones exhibit all the effects of ptsd and are trying to live in a dysfunctional country because of all the guns and constant fighting....or they're trying to escape!

[Dougie93]

34 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

Aside from all that, what I do know of Operation Medusa was that it was an ATTACK led by Canadian Forces. What else do you expect when you go on the attack in a country where you don't know the language, the culture or the history of what's already happened there...as one psychology professional described, people who live in these long term war zones exhibit all the effects of ptsd and are trying to live in a dysfunctional country because of all the guns and constant fighting....or they're trying to escape!

You're going to throw the army under the bus for Op Medusa as if it was a wanton assault on the Afghan people?

Wow. Canadians are pathetic.

[jacee]

21 hours ago, Argus said:

I think people like Jacee are delighted in causing hurt to anyone who is white and male and straight.

So your theory is that all straight white males are racist misogynist homophobes like you?  Lol 

You are not exactly  'mainstream'. You are part of a deviant minuscule minority - a white supremacist.

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Ronnie's show was hard to watch. I nearly shut it off.

Talk about pathetic.  The things Canadians do to grovel to their media elites.  Sad.

[jacee]

6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

You're going to throw the army under the bus for Op Medusa as if it was a wanton assault on the Afghan people?

Wow. Canadians are pathetic.

All of the US imperialist wars are wanton assaults on the people of countries they invade for their resources or just to sell war equipment. 

Surely you have figured that out by now, Dougie93.

[Dougie93]

6 minutes ago, jacee said:

All of the US imperialist wars are wanton assaults on the people of countries they invade for their resources or just to sell war equipment. 

Surely you have figured that out by now, Dougie93.

That's not what Op Medusa was about, but you leftists will make it about that, inevitably, and Canadians will  lie down for it, which is, as I say, pathetic.

[Cannucklehead]

7 minutes ago, jacee said:

All of the US imperialist wars are wanton assaults on the people of countries they invade for their resources or just to sell war equipment. 

Surely you have figured that out by now, Dougie93.

Following the September 11 attacks in 2001 on the US, which President George W. Bush blamed on Osama bin Laden who was living or hiding in Afghanistan and had already been wanted since 1998, President Bush demanded that the Taliban, who were de facto ruling the country, hand over bin Laden.^[63] The Taliban declined to extradite him unless they were provided clear evidence of his involvement in the attacks, which the US refused to provide and dismissed as a delaying tactic^[64] and then on 7 October 2001 launched Operation Enduring Freedom with the United Kingdom.

 

After 9/11 they should consider themselves fortunate the u.s. did not use the nukes imo. 

[jacee]

21 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Another racist comment.
You’re a hideous racist jacee, and it’s not surprising that you don’t even see it based on how seriously lacking all of your other observations are. 

Are you not familiar with research on hiring practices? 

Pay attention to the science. It makes the world more understandable. It's less frightening to fragile egos that way.

Edited November 17, 2019 by jacee

[Dougie93]

I know Frank Mellish's kids wonder why he had to die, but it certainly wasn't for some imperial design, it was for the men to the left and right of him, for Rick Nolan, and the Regiment.

 

[jacee]

22 hours ago, Argus said:

Canada has done nothing to cause mass migrations. Unless you're talking about Trudeau tweeting out that Canada welcomed all, and thus inspiring tens of thousands to jump the queue by coming to our border and calling themselves refuygees.

Nonsense. Get to know your country better: Most of the migrant caravans are Indigenous people from Honduras, pushed off their land by Canadian mining companies that 'own' 70% of the mines in Honduras. 

Canadian mining companies ride the wave of US imperialism into many countries, destroying lives and livelihoods and environments.

Edited November 17, 2019 by jacee

[jacee]

6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I know Frank Mellish's kids wonder why he had to die, but it certainly wasn't for some imperial design, it was for the men to the left and right of him, for Rick Nolan, and the Regiment.

 

I respect that.

But all Canadians are responsible for putting soldiers in those situations, just fodder in wars for private profit.

[Dougie93]

Just now, jacee said:

I respect that.

But all Canadians are responsible for putting soldiers in those situations, just fodder in wars for private profit.

They did their duty, NATO Article V under the Washington Treaty.

As an American, I salute them.

[Dougie93]

And never forget why Rick Nolan died ; lack of equipment, they didn't have enough armored vehicles, so he had to go in a jeep, and the RPG went right through the front window.

God bless you, Cpl. Dove.

[Argus]

46 minutes ago, jacee said:

Nonsense. Get to know your country better: Most of the migrant caravans are Indigenous people from Honduras, pushed off their land by Canadian mining companies that 'own' 70% of the mines in Honduras. 

From what I read the people fleeing Honduras are fleeing corrupt government and crime gangs

 

[Argus]

56 minutes ago, jacee said:

Are you not familiar with research on hiring practices?

Is that the research which shows east Indians tend to hire east Indians and Chinese tend to hire Chinese?

[Argus]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

All of the US imperialist wars are wanton assaults on the people of countries they invade for their resources or just to sell war equipment. 

Surely you have figured that out by now, Dougie93.

Right. Somalia had so much oil and gas and resources.

[WestCanMan]

44 minutes ago, jacee said:

Are you not familiar with research on hiring practices? 

Pay attention to the science. It makes the world more understandable. It's less frightening to fragile egos that way.

Blah blah blah. You made a racist comment weeks ago and you're still citing stats from inside of your own head to back them up. You've had ample time to trot out your bogus stats and by some great mystery you haven't been able to do so. No surprises there.

FYI the addition of sandbox insults to your post doesn't count as any sort of verification here, but I understand that it is the kind of thing that makes your fellow SJRs (social justice racists) howl in approval.

On the street, surrounded by Antifa losers, your M.O. of yelling serious accusations with no statistical merit which are backed by platitudes and sandbox insults, is like tot's killer. In a forum like this your racist claims are just that - racist comments.

You are a racist jacee. Period. Deal with that instead of making childish accusations.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

So your theory is that all straight white males are racist misogynist homophobes like you?  Lol 

You are not exactly  'mainstream'. You are part of a deviant minuscule minority - a white supremacist.

Meh. You're a shrill, brainless Marxist with the same violent intolerance towards differing views which leads to death camps and gulags everywhere Marxists take power. There isn't a view I've expressed which isn't mainstream, whereas yours are shared only among the fringes of the authoritarian Left.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Right To Left said:

It's easy to portray people as animals after they have been subjected to invasions and occupations for 30 years, BUT would there have been a Taleban takeover or non-stop fighting between greedy, ruthless warlord if Afghanistan hadn't been used as a proxy war between the US and the Soviet Union?

You think it might instead have become a paradise like Yemen or Sudan or Somalia?

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, Right To Left said:

It's easy to portray people as animals after they have been subjected to invasions and occupations for 30 years, BUT would there have been a Taleban takeover or non-stop fighting between greedy, ruthless warlord if Afghanistan hadn't been used as a proxy war between the US and the Soviet Union? 

Afghanistan 1970s And Now | Afghanistan Before Taliban: this 5 minute video of life in Afghanistan...focusing primarily on the major cities like Kabul, in the 60's and 70's blows all of the war porn propaganda that these people are innately savages or the "we have to liberate their women crapolla etc." out of the water!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7TDSUqdN2c

Under the comments section I found this one from some dirty hippie who travelled through Afghanistan with a few friends in1971 on their way to "enlightenment" in Katmandu or some bullshit, BUT the story is a match for stories one of my older brothers' friends described when he did something similar in the early 70's:

spellbound 1 year ago

In early 1971, during the Hippie era, I travelled with three friends and my sister overland to Kathmandu in Nepal. Travelling from Herat and Kandahar we reached Kabul. Then we travelled to Mazar e-Sharif and Balkh.  It was an amazing liberal land of modern and ancient. We were made welcome everywhere we went, the people of Afghanistan were wonderful to us in both the cities and the small villages. I wish things could be as it was before those horrible wars and let the people of Afghanistan have peace, freedom and happiness once again.

 

Aside from all that, what I do know of Operation Medusa was that it was an ATTACK led by Canadian Forces. What else do you expect when you go on the attack in a country where you don't know the language, the culture or the history of what's already happened there...as one psychology professional described, people who live in these long term war zones exhibit all the effects of ptsd and are trying to live in a dysfunctional country because of all the guns and constant fighting....or they're trying to escape!

What do you want me to say yes,the city of Kabul was beautiful in the 1970's, it was , but then so was Berlin prior to WWII, so was most of France prior to WWI, Afghanistan's corrupt government and the Russians turned all that around....It happens when there is conflict....There has been tribal warfare in Afghanistan through out time, well before the Russians and well before the Americans came ...to bad you didn't read up on the entire history....And nobody is calling them animals thats your words not mine..the Taliban , and the rest of the many terrorist groups that roamed freely in that country were made up of mostly foreign Muslims...fighting the great Jihad... they deserved much more than NATO could give them...

Ya google what these Taliban / and terrorist did to the people of Afghanistan  nd then tell me that these scumbags deserved any mercy... while on patrol  I had shared a part of my lunch with a young girl  who's father had been killed in front of her, her mother raped and beaten, and once that was done they cut both her hands off, and left her to die...she was only 8 years old at the time...Her crime was going to school...The Russians had nothing to do with that.....on another occasion we talked to a village elder about digging a well for his village, the next morning when we came back he was staked out on the ground at the entrance to the village in the morning sun, the Taliban had skinned him alive, and left him to bake in the morning sun...he died several hours later in our care... I got many more stories, that these scumbags did to their own people, ....Don't give me this bullshit that we did this, we turned them into scumbags....Every man and women is responsible for his own actions...for carving out there own destiny in this world....

The day after 9/11 was when their regime and days of terror came to an end....an attack on one allied is an attack on all of them....it makes up one of the largest defensive pacts our nation signed on to....that day over 60 Canadians were killed in those towers....save your tears for those guys...So to answer your statement Yes we Attacked them, during Op Medusa with everything we had and a little bit more...It would be the last attack that the Taliban stayed and fought us in one location...ALLAH had his hands full that week trying to find virgins for all those dedicated terrorist who should have been ducking instead of weaving … 

[Dougie93]

33 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

 Yes we Attacked them, during Op Medusa with everything we had and a little bit more...

Bravo Zulu.  Victoria Regina Imperatrix.  Pro Patria.