Is climate change, a major concern for Canadians ....

[Army Guy]

So here is a real question to Canadians.... How much do we really care about climate change ? And while polls are not the end all to be all how much credit do we give this poll.... 50 % don't want to use tax dollars or added costs....only 8 % of Canadian are willing to spend a whopping $100.00 or more.  WOW...

I guess thats saying something, even the left does not really believe in climate change enough to pay for it..., let me rephrase that they don't care about climate change thats better... I say that because most of us say we believe in climate change, kind of like the catch phrase we support our troops during the Afghan conflict....you had to say that or be attacked, or not taken serious on any topic......same here, we all believe in climate change, the science is out there.....and yet still not even a majority is convinced enough to put money towards it........

Maybe Justin had polled these numbers before and came up with the half ass carbon tax....because really Canadians don't really give a crap about climate change.... according to this poll. 

Quote

 

Especially in light of another bit of evidence: while most Canadians cite climate change as a pressing issue, they don’t want to do much about it. Just last month, Ipsos released a poll showing that roughly half of Canadians don’t want to spend even a single penny in either taxes or added costs to reduce carbon emissions. Only eight per cent of Canadians — eight per cent! — were willing to pay more than $100 a year to combat something the majority of us apparently believe is an existential threat to human civilization.

Would a better climate-change plan have helped the Tories? Probably. Would it have made a huge difference? Or even a meaningful one? It’s hard to look at these numbers and answer yes.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/matt-gurney-the-numbers-dont-back-up-any-claim-that-climate-change-sank-scheer/ar-AAJDtDb

Edited November 2, 2019 by Army Guy

[-1=e^ipi]

I would be willing to pay the pigouvian level of taxation of my emissions. Average annual CO2 emissions per capita for Canada is about $20 per metric ton. The pigouvian level of taxation is around $40 per metric ton maybe. So I guess $800 for me.

 

I guess you just put me in the extremist camp with your poll.

 

Edit: the cost of the pigouvian tax would be offset by lowering other taxes, so maybe less than $800 Canadian for me. I would have to consult integrated assessment models such as by Nobel Prize winner William Nordhaus.

Edited November 2, 2019 by -1=e^ipi

[eyeball]

It's not clear at all from this poll that Canadians don't give a crap about the climate but what has long been known already was reflected quite accurately in the poll.

Quote

The number of those surveyed who said they are unwilling to pay any extra costs rose to 56 per cent among individuals who identified as Conservative voters.

 

Scheer didn't gain any traction on the climate front during the election because Canadians know that Conservatives at heart are a bunch of hard-boiled deniers and any sort of nod they do give to climate change is pure virtue-signalling.

 

Meanwhile the poll clearly shows that the more progressive a Canadian is the more willing they are to pay more.

Quote

NDP voters on average said they would be willing to pay $375, while Liberal supporters said they would be willing to pay an extra $326.

I would suggest the poll is more reflective of a hesitancy to give any more money to the government just on general principles especially in today's dodgy economy. 

[Army Guy]

If the cons had 56 percent of vote we would not be talking about Justin second term...… the conservatives would be ripping it up like if Toronto won the Stanly cup again.....so I would assume that some of the left thinks the same way. 

 

Thats one way to see it, another would be that Canadians do not buy into this climate emergency, and are not willing to spend a lot of time or money on it...the poll does not reflect the numbers of Justins carbon taxs already in place...

[eyeball]

44 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

If the cons had 56 percent of vote we would not be talking about Justin second term...… the conservatives would be ripping it up like if Toronto won the Stanly cup again.....so I would assume that some of the left thinks the same way. 

 

Thats one way to see it, another would be that Canadians do not buy into this climate emergency, and are not willing to spend a lot of time or money on it...the poll does not reflect the numbers of Justins carbon taxs already in place...

Another way to look at it and our stupid electoral system notwithstanding, is that Trudeau really didn't do much better than Scheer at capturing Canadians hearts and minds.  This could also help explain why less progressive Canadians are less eager to part with their money.

They all know both major political parties are serial virtue-signalling bull-shitters.  IOW I bet more Canadians would be willing to part with more money if they could trust it was going to be used for its intended purpose and actually make a difference.

Jacking up carbon-taxes while promising to sell more oil really is a bit of a stretch. 

Edited November 2, 2019 by eyeball

[Cannucklehead]

 

I always laughed when I read this, but now with all this talk about climate change maybe he really was on to something.  

[-TSS-]

I think climate-change activists who are serious about their concern are doing themselves a disservice to keep that silly Swedish brainwashed child as a mascot for the cause. Especially as she has travelled across the world to spread her message even though in today's possibilities you can send your message online to the whole wide world without moving anywhere. She travelled by boat to America and the crew who helped her flew back home. Remember, flying is a no-no.

This whole Greta-thing how uncritisizingly the MSM views it is another nail in the coffin in the credibility of the MSM.

 

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

... in today's possibilities you can send your message online to the whole wide world without moving anywhere.

Climate scientists have been putting the message out to the whole wide world for decades and getting nowhere too.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Climate scientists have been putting the message out to the whole wide world for decades and getting nowhere too.

Yep, not much point in us beating ourselves up over it...

[jacee]

10 hours ago, eyeball said:

Climate scientists have been putting the message out to the whole wide world for decades and getting nowhere too.

I wouldn't say "nowhere". 

As it stands right now, fossil fuel production is on life support, kept alive only by public subsidies. All Canadians have to do is shift some subsidies from fossil fuels to renewable energy, and it's all over: Renewables are then more profitable than fossil fuels, investments go where the profits are, and the free market works as it should.  

The corporate welfare inflating fossil fuel profits has to end as it's interfering with the free market. The politicians in the pockets of the fossil fuel industry are the problem, using our money to artificially create profits that don't exist.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, jacee said:

I wouldn't say "nowhere". 

As it stands right now, fossil fuel production is on life support, kept alive only by public subsidies. 

Total crap. What the extremist left calls 'subsidies' is the govenrment not heavily taxing them because of the pollution fossil fuel causes. Fossil fuel production continues to rise and will be our primary energy source for decades to come.

2 hours ago, jacee said:

All Canadians have to do is shift some subsidies from fossil fuels to renewable energy, and it's all over:

These subsidies are a figment of your imagination. Wind and solar are not economically viable nor are they reliable sources of energy. I'm all in favor of going nuclear, but the Left doesn't like that either.

Nothing the frenzied left does is going to have the slightest impact on global warming. The only thing which is going to slow the use of fossil fuels is technological development in the area of battery power and life, and the development of alternative energy sources such as hydrogen and fusion.

 

[Moonlight Graham]

Technological advances got us into this mess, and they will get us out of it too.  We just need to be a bit more patient, as tons of brilliant people across the globe are working on the problem as we speak.  Luckily we still have some time.

Even if we can't stop it in time, the technology we'll have in 50-100 years will be unfathomable to anything people today could ever even imagine.

[Moonlight Graham]

12 hours ago, jacee said:

The corporate welfare inflating fossil fuel profits has to end as it's interfering with the free market. The politicians in the pockets of the fossil fuel industry are the problem, using our money to artificially create profits that don't exist.

I agree.  I haven't seen any evidence though that ending them or putting them to renewables will make renewables more profitable and cheaper than fossil fuels though.  It could be the case, but i've never seen any evidence, though i've never looked either.  Worth a shot though.

Quote

As it stands right now, fossil fuel production is on life support, kept alive only by public subsidies. All Canadians have to do is shift some subsidies from fossil fuels to renewable energy, and it's all over: Renewables are then more profitable than fossil fuels, investments go where the profits are, and the free market works as it should.  

Please provide a link to this claim.  Or is this just a wishful guess?

[QuebecOverCanada]

It's a scam.

[cannuck]

15 hours ago, jacee said:

I wouldn't say "nowhere". 

As it stands right now, fossil fuel production is on life support, kept alive only by public subsidies. All Canadians have to do is shift some subsidies from fossil fuels to renewable energy, and it's all over: Renewables are then more profitable than fossil fuels, investments go where the profits are, and the free market works as it should.  

The corporate welfare inflating fossil fuel profits has to end as it's interfering with the free market. The politicians in the pockets of the fossil fuel industry are the problem, using our money to artificially create profits that don't exist.

I have been around various parts of that fossil fuel industry upstream, midstream and downstream for about a half century, and have as yet to see any "subsidy" of any kind.   In fact, quite the opposite for royalties, taxes, permits, licenses, bonding, etc.   Put those same costs on the unicorn fart industry, and it is even MORE ridiculously expensive.

[Anthony]

 

It is assumed that climate change will be disastrous for the planet/ vast population of people, yet there is very little talk on how it might benefit the planet/vast pollution of people.

Ignoring the causes, I would like to see a real debate between two professional scientists on opposing sides, one pro climate change and one against. But as far as I know, for phd climatologists and physicists that would be a career wrecker if they were seen to be debating on the "wrong" side. When did science become a religion? Where if you show opposing views of the climate status quo, you are a blasphemer/denier.

 

[marcus]

17 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Technological advances got us into this mess, and they will get us out of it too.  We just need to be a bit more patient, as tons of brilliant people across the globe are working on the problem as we speak.  Luckily we still have some time.

Even if we can't stop it in time, the technology we'll have in 50-100 years will be unfathomable to anything people today could ever even imagine.

That's my hope. That technology will save us from what is obvious to me, which is the accelerated speed of change in our climate.

[marcus]

On 11/2/2019 at 6:26 AM, jacee said:

I wouldn't say "nowhere". 

As it stands right now, fossil fuel production is on life support, kept alive only by public subsidies. All Canadians have to do is shift some subsidies from fossil fuels to renewable energy, and it's all over: Renewables are then more profitable than fossil fuels, investments go where the profits are, and the free market works as it should.  

The corporate welfare inflating fossil fuel profits has to end as it's interfering with the free market. The politicians in the pockets of the fossil fuel industry are the problem, using our money to artificially create profits that don't exist.

Not sure why the so-called free-market proponents are not speaking out against the corporate welfare system OR are flat out in denial. Here are some of the largest current subsidies in Canada:

Subsidy name	Who gives it?	Who gets it?	How much is it worth?*
Flow-through shares**	Canada	Oil and gas companies	CAD 265 million
Direct spending & budgetary transfers***	Canada	Oil and gas companies	CAD 112 million
Crown royalty reductions	Alberta	Oil and gas companies	CAD 1.162 billion
Tax exemptions for certain fuels & uses in industry	Alberta	Industry	CAD 298 million
Royalty reductions, including deep drilling and infrastructure credits†	British Columbia	Oil and gas companies	CAD 631 million
Reduced tax for aviation fuel	Ontario	Aviation Industry	CAD 292 million
Tax exemption for coloured fuels used in agriculture	Ontario	Agricultural industry	CAD 248 million
Fuel tax exemptions and reductions ‡	Quebec	Industry and other consumers	CAD 301 million

 

 

[Army Guy]

On 11/2/2019 at 10:26 AM, jacee said:

I wouldn't say "nowhere". 

As it stands right now, fossil fuel production is on life support, kept alive only by public subsidies. All Canadians have to do is shift some subsidies from fossil fuels to renewable energy, and it's all over: Renewables are then more profitable than fossil fuels, investments go where the profits are, and the free market works as it should.  

The corporate welfare inflating fossil fuel profits has to end as it's interfering with the free market. The politicians in the pockets of the fossil fuel industry are the problem, using our money to artificially create profits that don't exist.

Not sure where you got this but as Argus said Total crap...Corporate welfare to the gas and oil sector across candida, was 2.7 bil this year, mean while the same sector had profits of 170 BIL close to 7 % of our total GDP....I'd say they are doing very well , but I'm no accountant....I did leave sources over on the post about Do you support Western Oil & Gas?

Edited November 3, 2019 by Army Guy

[eyeball]

23 hours ago, marcus said:

That's my hope. That technology will save us from what is obvious to me, which is the accelerated speed of change in our climate.

Like a car racing against a train towards a crossing. It's going to be a close one with the room for error shrinking.  Personally I think we have too much baggage on board...dictators, disdain verging on disgust for virtue notwithstanding joe-lunchpail pays his bills on time.

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Like a car racing against a train towards a crossing. It's going to be a close one with the room for error shrinking.  Personally I think we have too much baggage on board...dictators, disdain verging on disgust for virtue notwithstanding joe-lunchpail pays his bills on time.

You have airbags, right, Joe?

[Cannucklehead]

https://news.google.ca/articles/CBMiUWh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmNiYy5jYS9uZXdzL3RlY2hub2xvZ3kvc2NpZW50aXN0cy1kZWNsYXJlLWNsaW1hdGUtZW1lcmdlbmN5LTEuNTM0NzQ4NtIBIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmNiYy5jYS9hbXAvMS41MzQ3NDg2?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen

 

11,000 scientists.

"What worries me is that our government is not taking this issue seriously enough from a policy perspective and … short-sighted priorities fail to acknowledge the tremendous cost of inaction," she said.

 

what worries me is that some people(with degrees I assume) think everyone is just going to stop everything and go green.  

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Cannucklehead said:

https://news.google.ca/articles/CBMiUWh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmNiYy5jYS9uZXdzL3RlY2hub2xvZ3kvc2NpZW50aXN0cy1kZWNsYXJlLWNsaW1hdGUtZW1lcmdlbmN5LTEuNTM0NzQ4NtIBIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmNiYy5jYS9hbXAvMS41MzQ3NDg2?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen

 

11,000 scientists.

"What worries me is that our government is not taking this issue seriously enough from a policy perspective and … short-sighted priorities fail to acknowledge the tremendous cost of inaction," she said.

 

what worries me is that some people(with degrees I assume) think everyone is just going to stop everything and go green.  

I had to laugh at the National tonight.  "11000 scientists...  are raising the alarm"  What???

Edited November 6, 2019 by bcsapper

[bush_cheney2004]

Only 11,000 scientists ?   Then the vast majority of scientists did not sign it.  They must be "deniers".

[Yzermandius19]

On 11/3/2019 at 5:55 PM, Army Guy said:

Not sure where you got this but as Argus said Total crap...Corporate welfare to the gas and oil sector across candida, was 2.7 bil this year, mean while the same sector had profits of 170 BIL close to 7 % of our total GDP....I'd say they are doing very well , but I'm no accountant....I did leave sources over on the post about Do you support Western Oil & Gas?

If you took out the subsidies they'd be raking in $167 billion in profits. Jacee of course wants to believe that fossil fuels aren't profitable without subsidies and green energy would take over without them, but as usual, she is wrong due to engaging in wishful thinking. Thankfully her solution to is to level the playing field and allow the market to sort things out, based on that delusion, so it all works out.

One thing this poll shows is that even Canadians do not support giant government power grabs to address the climate change issue, fake environmentalists using the threat of climate doomsday to push far left extremist policies should take notes, their strategy is failing miserably. Even NDP and Liberal voters don't want to give up more than $500 a year to the government to "fight climate change", this attachment to the "climate crisis" angle to try and guilt people into giving more power to the government is an anchor around the neck of the environmentalist movement.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19