The purpose or logic behind mass shootings.

[Dougie93]

10 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

He could have killed more if he aimed instead of spraying aimlessly. You are talking out of your ass if you think simply holding down the trigger until the ammo runs out is the most effective way to kill people quickly, even in a crowd, it is not.

Indeed. The mechanism by which he could kill more, would have been for him to have become more militarized and so professionalized at the art of mass murder.

This is why people who say "more mental healthcare!" are just as delusional as the gun grabbers.

The shooters are not crazy, you would not be able to detect them as being crazy, this is war, more mental healthcare is not effective against ISIS and it's not effective against ideologically committed domestic terrorists neither.

El Paso shooter was more effective because he was more militarized in his approach, but Incelter Skelter is an ideology too, and they are getting more lethal as they go because they are militarizing too, because they are learning from  the John Brown Bleeding Kansas types.

Information Warfare, this is what war looks like in the 21st century future.

The Pentagon predicted and projected all this back in the 90's, and now that future has arrived.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Dougie93

[Argus]

Another interesting view of these mass shootings. Although I think they're lumping in gang killings with the kind of nutjob shootings we found on the weekend. Still, their point is correct in that the media lumps all mass shootings together when they give out the numbers, too.

The perception that mass shootings are a “white man’s problem” lingers around the country because white mass shooters tend to get more publicity. And, the twisted young male who goes on a public shooting spree fits a certain kind of media narrative. But when we actually study the mass shootings that took place in 2019, it’s clear that Patrick Crusius and Connor Betts are not the norm, but aberrations.

Mass shooters have no particular ideology. Crusius and Betts were opposites ideologically. (Though both cared deeply about the environment.) Nor are mass shooters a white problem or a black problem. Over the same bloody weekend, William Patrick Williams, who is African-American, appeared in court after being arrested by the FBI for planning to shoot up a Texas hotel with an AK-47 rifle.

Looking at the data from the Mass Shooting Tracker, widely utilized by the media, as of this writing, of the 72 mass shooters, perpetrators in shootings that killed or wounded 4 or more people, whose race is known, 21 were white, 37 were black, 8 were Latino, and 6 were members of other groups.

51% of mass shooters in 2019 were black, 29% were white, and 11% were Latino

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/274538/51-mass-shooters-2019-were-black-only-29-were-daniel-greenfield

[Shady]

Interesting.

[Michael Hardner]

@Shady forgive the skeptic please, but can we have a more specific cite than OECD, WHO, CDC ?

[Dougie93]

6 hours ago, Argus said:

Mass shooters have no particular ideology. Crusius and Betts were opposites ideologically.

No particular ideology, but everybody has an ideology, Crusius has an ideology, Betts has an ideology, ideology is just synonym for beliefs, ideals principles.

Now how much of their alleged statements online were their true ideology and how much is just media manipulation, that's another question.

The manifestos that go along with these shootings tend to be overwrought, like they are written with the media in mind, in order to get maximum attention.

 

[Dougie93]

In terms of how crazy they are?

It doesn't present as classic psychopaths obviously because they are not trying to avoid detection nor the consequences, they are turning themselves in and/or being shot.

Could be psychosis, like Harvey the Rabbit told them to do it and they just wrote the manifesto cause Harvey said that would get the maximum attention, perhaps.

But it could simply be extreme narcissism, monstrous cry for attention because they've been spoiled rotten to the point of being homicidal and suicidal; A Clockwork Orange.

[scribblet]

 

17 hours ago, Argus said:

An.......

Looking at the data from the Mass Shooting Tracker, widely utilized by the media, as of this writing, of the 72 mass shooters, perpetrators in shootings that killed or wounded 4 or more people, whose race is known, 21 were white, 37 were black, 8 were Latino, and 6 were members of other groups.

51% of mass shooters in 2019 were black, 29% were white, and 11% were Latino

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/274538/51-mass-shooters-2019-were-black-only-29-were-daniel-greenfield

That inconveniently doesn't fit the narrative as the steady drumbeat of racism and white supremacy charges increase which is more than likely angering moderate people as the  rhetoric of the left aided by the MSM, continues unabated, which could lead to violence.  It is the unfettered hyperbole and rhetoric of the left that is causing people to shift further to the right in retaliation.   White supremacists are a small group but could grow if the race baiters continue spewing B.S. and labelling everything they disagree with as `racist` when it is not.    It is this that is undermining society, along with IMO the decline of the family unit, morals, lack of fathers in many households while sex, violence and drugs are glorified.

 Take the story yesterday when the leftists did not approve of the New York Times accurate, non partisan front page headline so protested and tweeted up such a storm that the  Times actually took their unofficial marching orders and changed it to something more satisfying to the left.   

This is the second headline, first one said  Trump Urges Unity not Hate...      can't have that now,    the pic is too big but I'm unable to delete it. 

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by scribblet

[scribblet]

The author here, Angelo M. Codevilla is an Italian-US professor emeritus of international relations at what is now the Pardee School of Global Studies at BostonUniversity.   He sums it up pretty well here 

https://amgreatness.com/2019/08/06/igniting-civil-war/

excerpted:

The story of the contemporary American Left’s sponsorship of hate and violence begins around 1964, when the Democratic Party chose to abandon the Southern constituencies that had been its mainstay since the time of Jefferson and Jackson. In less than a decade, the party found itself increasingly dependent on gaining super-majorities among blacks, upscale liberals, and constituencies of resentment in general—and hence on stoking their hate.

For the past half century, America’s political history has been driven by the Democratic Party’s effort to fire up these constituencies by denigrating the rest of America. As elements of cynical calculation melded into self-images of righteous entitlement to rule inferiors, the boundaries between the party and the constituencies’ most radical parts have eroded.

[Shady]

13 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

@Shady forgive the skeptic please, but can we have a more specific cite than OECD, WHO, CDC ?

I’ll look for a better source.

[betsy]

On 8/4/2019 at 5:21 PM, Argus said:

I struggle to find any sort of logic in them. Except for the Muslims, of course. There IS a consistent logic with that because their religion says that if they die fighting the unbeliever in a holy war they go to heaven and are richly rewarded. No matter how stupid you might think that is they believe it, so there's a consistent logic behind killing people.

There's no logic behind what the guy in Texas did. Killing a dozen, or two or three dozen, or two or three hundred Hispanics is not going to accomplish anything in the way of stopping Hispanic immigration, legal and illegal, nor going to make even the slightest dent in the Hispanic population of El Paso, which approaches 90%. And it will effectively end his life. So what's the point?

I'm not even discussing the morality. Some people are immoral and lack all empathy for others. That's a known fact. I'm talking about the rationality - which does not appear to exist. Even if you want to kill people, being an immoral sadist or something, there are ways of doing it that don't end your life. All humans are built with an instinct for self-preservation. Going against that is not rational unless you think your life is shit to begin with, essentially worth nothing. So we have to figure that as a starting point.

But even there, even if your life is shit, there are rational things to do to change it, even if drastic (because what's more drastic than ending it). And these characters don't go in for that.

They're almost always young, white males who do not appear to be fully integrated into society. They don't have girlfriends, decent jobs, prospects, or much in the way of friends. And they all seem to be pretty computer literate. Angry at the world, it seems to me they just say "F*k it" and go kill people so they can "go out in a blaze of glory". They've likely played a lot of video games and this is, to some extent, bringing that to life.

What I don't understand is why this happens mostly in the US. Yes, guns are easily available. But they're not that hard to get here, either. If you have no history of psychological problems or a criminal record, you can go through the courses and get your license. Then you can buy an AR-15 if that's what you want. So how come almost nobody ever does that? I have not seen or heard of anyone going on a mass shooting spree even remotely like what happens with dreary regularity down south with a legally obtained firearm.Is it just the delay? The time it takes to go through the process? Or is there something more about the US cultural background which encourages this? And if there is, why did it not exist back in the 1950s or 1960s?

 

I think video gaming is a big contributing factor!  One could get disensitized when you're always shooting up people (in games) - it doesn't take much for someone with psychological problems to get pushed over the edge.

Like one of these two hunted teens from BC - he was apparently big in playing war video games that he had expressed his fantasy of mass killings to a neighbor.

[dialamah]

All countries have violent video games, often developed in the States.  Among developed nations, only the States has so many mass shootings.  If video games were causative or even correlated, other countries would also have high levels of mass shootings.

[betsy]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

All countries have violent video games, often developed in the States.  Among developed nations, only the States has so many mass shootings.  If video games were causative or even correlated, other countries would also have high levels of mass shootings.

I'm not saying it's the only factor. 

True that all countries have access to violent video games (I'm thinking more of the ones they have online) - but how many from other countries can afford them, compared to the population of the USA that can? 

How many of these shooters are on drugs?  A lot of them have psychological problems.

Hollywood is another factor!  So many violent movies - the higher the body count, the more exciting and thrilling!  Need we say more about society having this hero-worship of movie characters?  Like the Matrix, as an example.   The Columbine killers wore coats like the ones worn by Reaves in that movie!

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by betsy

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

All countries have violent video games, often developed in the States.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Murder rate for G7 per 100K citizens:
US 5.3
Canada 1.8
France 1.3
UK 1.2
Germany 1.0
Italy .67
Japan .2


Oh - US has 4.46 gun homicides per 100K

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

 

 

All have access to video games and hollywood culture.   Not sure what the US's problem is - I suggest a spiritual sickness.

[J4L]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Murder rate for G7 per 100K citizens:
US 5.3
Canada 1.8
France 1.3
UK 1.2
Germany 1.0
Italy .67
Japan .2
 

Why is Canada so high compared to European countries?

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, J4L said:

Why is Canada so high compared to European countries?

Perhaps it's the lower population?

[Yzermandius19]

8 hours ago, betsy said:

I'm not saying it's the only factor. 

True that all countries have access to violent video games (I'm thinking more of the ones they have online) - but how many from other countries can afford them, compared to the population of the USA that can? 

How many of these shooters are on drugs?  A lot of them have psychological problems.

Hollywood is another factor!  So many violent movies - the higher the body count, the more exciting and thrilling!  Need we say more about society having this hero-worship of movie characters?  Like the Matrix, as an example.   The Columbine killers wore coats like the ones worn by Reaves in that movie!

 

Blaming video games and movies is just dumb, get a grip.

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Blaming video games and movies is just dumb, get a grip.

The Temperance Lady lives.

[Yzermandius19]

9 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

The Temperance Lady lives.

Next they'll be blaming the music, Columbine was clearly Marilyn Manson's fault.


betsy already blamed the trench coats, lulz.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Next they be blaming the music, Columbine was clearly Marilyn Manson's fault.

The Trenchcoat Mafia turned out to be a hoax, that didn't exist apparently.

The FBI investigation concluded that based on their diary entries that Harris was a brooding psychopath and Klebold was his angry depressive sidekick.

They first wrote about committing a mass murder in 1997, so clearly not inspired by the Matrix, tho that be a laughingly amusing bogey none the less.

[Yzermandius19]

Blaming The Matrix is pretty hilarious. Did they even see the movie? It had been out for only three weeks at the time of the shooting.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Blaming The Matrix is pretty hilarious. Did they even see the movie? It had been out for less than a month at the time of the shooting.

Maybe they did, but I'll take the FBI's word that they had been working themselves up to do a mass shooting for two years by that point, and the "Trenchcoat Mafia" reference in their yearbook was the 1998 yearbook, so that was prior to the Matrix as well.

[Yzermandius19]

Blaming The Matrix for Columbine is even dumber than blaming PewDiePie for Christchurch. Hilariously stupid.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Blaming The Matrix is even dumber than blaming PewDiePie for the Christchurch shooting.

What they were actually wearing was not Trench Coats, they were wearing Western Duster Coats, and it is Colorado, where those are traditional.

So I don't it was Matrix style, I think it was more Western Gunfighter.

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

What they were actually wearing was not Trench Coats, they were wearing Western Duster Coats, and it is Colorado, where those are traditional.

So I don't it was Matrix style, I think it was more Western Gunfighter.

Clearly it's Marilyn Manson's fault, they were big fans after all, and he wore similar looking coats, blame the devil's music!

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Clearly it's Marilyn Manson's fault, they were big fans after all, and he wore similar looking coats, blame the devil's music!

Culture is destiny, the Temperance Lady casts a long shadow, the Second Great Awakening is another in a series of American revolutions.