Trudeau test drives his smear campaign

[DogOnPorch]

46 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Toto I'm not in Kansas anymore  

shame people buy into liberal talking points which most people understand are lies

 

I think they should take it up a notch and perhaps hold some rallies with banners & signs and lots of speakers underscoring how over half of Canada are now...heh...Nazis. 

They could propose some sort of solution to this Nazi problem...perhaps some holding camps for the interim while some better solution is decided upon. You know...concentrate them in one place.

 

 

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

It was not a loaded question. She asked a very pointed question.

 

So what is your ultimate solution?

[GostHacked]

7 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

So what is your ultimate solution?

Let's get back to the topic shall we?  Let's not get into this shit pissing match where Charles has to lock the thread.

Trudeau is not going to get elected again,and for damn good reason.

(goes back through) OH I see where the thread got derailed, as soon as you started to post it all went 'south'.

Ok so, let's see if we can catch up then.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/goldstein-liberal-smears-of-wilson-raybould-a-disgrace

Quote

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says he expelled former Liberal attorney general Jody Wilson-Raybould from caucus because she failed to practice his high standard of integrity.

Having chosen this hill to die on, Liberal MPs gave Trudeau a standing ovation because it was the only hill they had left, all previous Liberal attempts to smear Wilson-Raybould having failed.

Trudeau has no standard of integrity at all. 

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Let's get back to the topic shall we?

 

The topic is that anybody not part of the Liberal Party and their supporters are "white supremacists/nationalists/Nazis/KKK"...take your pick...or pick them all!

 #Trudeau-test-drives-his-smear-campaign

Perhaps some Conservatives need to be punched.

[PIK]

3 hours ago, jacee said:

More amazing that Scheer says "Vote for me! I'm an ultra-Christian Nazi with dimples!"

And the answer is obvious ... vote for neither of the idiots. 

It is hate filled people like you jacee that are actually the problem. The extreme left wing and all fringe parties need to be taken down a few notches. And it is happening as we speak ,no matter who you called a racist. Canadians are taking their country back. This is a revolution. Canadian style.

Edited April 17, 2019 by PIK

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, scribblet said:

Well,  Kenney won in Alberta which tells me people aren't al going to buy into Trudeau's campaign of smear and slander:  to do so and brand millions of patriotic Canadians as ‘racists,’ spending the whole campaign fearmongering will result in punishment at the polls.  

So...count on savvy conservative political parties to continue walking a fine line between concern and racism - dividends for divisiveness.  Everyone's the mug in this game.

Edited April 17, 2019 by eyeball

[Michael Hardner]

8 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Is it Islamophobic?   

"We don't live in a Sharia controlled society"

So simple that it's ridiculous to have to state it.  No, not racist but retarded.  I'm actually not interest in spoon feeding you answers to retarded questions so please cut it out.

[Army Guy]

7 hours ago, jacee said:

White supremacists vote Conservative.

The Conservative Party courts their votes.

Like white supremacists, the Conservative Party tries to hide their racism in 'anti-immigration' propaganda. 

 

Gays vote liberal , what is your point here....was it all liberals are gay, because I know a lot and they are straight.....

You don't think the liberals don't court votes, once again does that make them gay....

speaking of hiding stuff did the liberals not just hide major changes to the immigration policy in another bill. bringing it more in line with conservative policy....

[eyeball]

26 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

speaking of hiding stuff did the liberals not just hide major changes to the immigration policy in another bill. bringing it more in line with conservative policy....

And he still sells weapons to dictators, busts people for pot, helps corporations widen the wealth gap in Canada. I've never really understood what it was that conservatives don't like about him.  He's just not right wing enough I guess. 

[Argus]

All right, people. So we've been talking about the great and terrible threat of the massive white supremacy movement - as has been repeatedly and breathlessly told to us by the Liberal party and their party propaganda organ the CBC. But has anyone actually gone to look up the report it's allegedly based on?

Because here it is. And it says virtually nothing about white supremacy. It has five whole paragraphs on 'right wing extremism' one of which finishes thusly:

However, while racism, bigotry, and misogyny may undermine the fabric of Canadian society, ultimately they do not usually result in criminal behavior or threats to national security.

Get that? There's no really much threat of terrorism or even breaking the law from these people (including hate speech laws). And I have to wonder just how much of the inclusion of a section on right wing extremism was dictated by the Liberal government. After all, the opening paragraph was quickly changed once Sikhs got upset about it. It now says:

As per the Minister of Public Safety’s statement on the 2018 Public Report on the Terrorist Threat to Canada, a review of the language used to describe extremism has been undertaken and is ongoing. The Government’s communication of threats must be clear, concise, and cannot be perceived as maligning any groups. As we continue this review, it is apparent that in outlining a threat, it must be clearly linked to an ideology rather than a community. The Government will carefully select terminology that focuses on the intent or ideology. For example, as a first step, the Government will use the term: Extremists who support violent means to establish an independent state within India; rather than terminology that unintentionally impugns an entire religion. 

 

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/pblc-rprt-trrrsm-thrt-cnd-2018/index-en.aspx#s112

Edited April 17, 2019 by Argus

[Guest]

10 hours ago, jacee said:

My statement was correct. 

 

The topic is Trudeau smearing Scheer's white supremacist associations.

The anti-Muslim trolls here always want to shift the topic to smear Muslims worldwide.  

Sharia law is not an issue in Canada.

Start a thread about Brunei if you want to discuss Brunei. 

This thread is about Canadian election tactics.

No it wasn't.  You said Sharia Law applies to Muslims only.  It doesn't.  We can start doing panto now or forget it. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

"We don't live in a Sharia controlled society"

So simple that it's ridiculous to have to state it.  No, not racist but retarded.  I'm actually not interest in spoon feeding you answers to retarded questions so please cut it out.

No, we don't.  Tell me who said we did and I'll get them for you!

As to the rest, don't make stuff up about me please?  If you can't deal with facts, just say so and I won't tell you any!

[scribblet]

Actually by liberal lights, Trudeau is a terrorist sympathizer ...

falsely accusing people of being nazis etc.  is just modern day mccarthyism and transparent attempts to stifle opposition, Alberta isn't buying, neither will the rest of Canada

[jacee]

9 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Gays vote liberal , what is your point here....was it all liberals are gay, because I know a lot and they are straight.....

You don't think the liberals don't court votes, once again does that make them gay....

speaking of hiding stuff did the liberals not just hide major changes to the immigration policy in another bill. bringing it more in line with conservative policy....

My point, already stated, is that the Conservative and Liberal leaders are both idiots, dragging the country into the gutter, with their minions happily following. 

(Side note: White supremacists are hateful scumbags. Gays are just regular people. Your comparison is ridiculous.)

Edited April 18, 2019 by jacee

[jacee]

7 hours ago, scribblet said:

Actually by liberal lights, Trudeau is a terrorist sympathizer ...

falsely accusing people of being nazis etc.  is just modern day mccarthyism and transparent attempts to stifle opposition, Alberta isn't buying, neither will the rest of Canada

So we have a gutter fight for an election, between the white supremacists and the Islamic terrorist sympathizers?

Could the Libs and Cons get any more pathetic and disgusting? 

Edited April 18, 2019 by jacee

[Michael Hardner]

11 hours ago, Argus said:

1. There is no such environment. You are paranoid.

2. ...a largely imaginary enemy.

3. Well, let's see. We could reduce the speed limit to ten km an hour on the highways. That would save many, many lives. We could force everyone to wear football padding and helmets everywhere they went. No telling how many lives that would save. Ban swimming, ban skiing and snowboarding. People die in such sports. Ban boating, too. There's no need of these things. Ban alcohol. It kills people very year. How far do you want to take this reducing of misery?

4. But it isn't. Anti-Muslim terrorism is a minuscule fraction of Muslim terrorism.

5. We have laws against hate speech, including on the internet, which I largely, though reluctantly support. That isn't what you are calling for. You are calling for laws against speech you hate. There is a difference.

6. ... there is no posting history of you having a fit over the Pittsburgh murders and demanding action to censor the internet.

7. .. where you seemed ready to get a club and mask and join ANTIFA in bashing anyone identified as 'the enemy', 

8.  Righto. Doing that now.

9.  No, it wasn't dreamed up by me. It came from Jonathan Haidt. And I'm just trying to figure out why you've gone off the deep end over these two (2) attacks at the mosques while no other terrorist event over the years seems to have similarly impacted you.

10.  Ultimately, though, I'm not willing to sacrifice my freedom of speech because you have an unreasonable and unrealistic fear of social media. 

1. Hate crimes against Muslims up 253% over 4 years. https://globalnews.ca/news/3523535/hate-crimes-canada-muslim/ Facebook groups like Yellow Vests continuously share memes that dehumanize them and paint them as evil.  The Quebec Mosque shooter followed these groups and Scheer hasn't distanced himself from some adherents.

2. We had 6 Canadians murdered in cold blood in 2017 so the threat is real.

3. I concur that it's a trade-off.  I would say you can criticize, denounce and denigrate a religion but when you try to imply that its adherents are not the same as other humans you're stepping into the area of scapegoating, hate mongering and what have you.

4. A miniscule fraction of such terrorism in Canada ?  I would say 'miniscule fraction' would mean < 10%.  Can you find me more than 60 people murdered by Muslim terrorists in Canada in 2017 ?  I'm not saying that these are hard numbers but as I have said the order of magnitude is roughly the same.

5. No - I dislike broad generalizations and disconnected logic but I'm not looking to ban that even when used in a xenophobic way.

6. I posted about it on the other board, basically saying that the same forces that foment hate against Muslims have been doing it against Jews also.  It's the same.

7. Hyperbole

8. Not enough, though, against hate mongers and anti-Muslim posters such as the ones on here.  Freedom of speech is supposed to allow for a marketplace of ideas where bad ones DIE.  Without Conservatives like Andrew Scheer taking a stand, they will not die but will increase 253 percent.

9. Please stop including an examination of my psyche in your arguments.  It brings them down.  You don't know me, based on a few posts on a few forums.  My take on personal freedom changed radically after 9/11 as did my view of politics, and the political forum.

10. I'm not afraid of social media, just of people who use unregulated media to spread hate and damage the fabric of our society.  These are foreign forces doing it also.

Tying it back to the election campaign - many Canadians take a dim view of intolerant attitudes and all Scheer has to do is denounce Faith Goldy for the racist hate-monger she is and it will take a pillar out of Trudeau's campaign.  Will he do it ?

[bush_cheney2004]

22 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Hate crimes against Muslims up 253% over 4 years. https://globalnews.ca/news/3523535/hate-crimes-canada-muslim/ Facebook groups like Yellow Vests continuously share memes that dehumanize them and paint them as evil.  The Quebec Mosque shooter followed these groups and Scheer hasn't distanced himself from some adherents.

 

Seriously ?    Where were you when Canada's "aboriginals" needed your heartfelt concern and internet lobbying campaign against "hate" over the past 25 years ?

253% results from math and a small base...not so alarming.

So much growth in hate on Trudeau's watch....what is his magic secret ?

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

46 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Seriously ?    Where were you when... 

I am loving how posters here are now looking at me for general leadership on more issues.  I am also vocal on first Nations interests though.

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I am loving how posters here are now looking at me for general leadership on more issues.  I am also vocal on first Nations interests though.

 

That's nice....but "Muslims" appear to be your current favourite for your own partisan reasons.

Black people have been impacted the most by Trudeau's failed leadership on hate crimes, but that doesn't really serve your purpose here.

 

Quote

Black people major targets, StatsCan reports

Across Canada, black people remained the most common targets of hate crimes based on race or ethnicity. Some 16 per cent of all incidents involved black victims.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/statistics-canada-2017-hate-crime-numbers-1.4925399

 

Your leadership is badly needed...so much more hate and lack of unity in Canada under the current government.   Will you hold the Liberal's accountable for the increases in hate rhetoric and crimes ?    Or will you continue to blame "alt-right" nationalists ?

Trudeau's smear campaign traffics in hate for political gain.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[Argus]

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Hate crimes against Muslims up 253% over 4 years. https://globalnews.ca/news/3523535/hate-crimes-canada-muslim/ Facebook groups like Yellow Vests continuously share memes that dehumanize them and paint them as evil.  The Quebec Mosque shooter followed these groups and Scheer hasn't distanced himself from some adherents.

First of all, despite your large percentage increase they're a tiny actually number. Just 159. Of these, most were words or mischief to buildings, while approximately 12 were assaults. By way of context, there were 219,000 assaults in Canada that year. So despite what memes people are sharing there doesn't seem to be much violence involved.

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. We had 6 Canadians murdered in cold blood in 2017 so the threat is real.

Crazy people gotta crazy. There's no evidence he was driven by memes from the likes of the yellow vest. He was a nut, and if he was incited by anything online it was Trump and the American nut movement.

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. I concur that it's a trade-off.  I would say you can criticize, denounce and denigrate a religion but when you try to imply that its adherents are not the same as other humans you're stepping into the area of scapegoating, hate mongering and what have you.

Has anyone done that? I think all people are pointing out is that there is so much about Islam which is violently hostile to unbelievers, and that this hostility is reflected in the cultural value system of Muslims around the world.

Btw, the people who incite violence the most on the internet are Muslims. Would you agree to banning all mention of the Koran and Islamic laws which preach hatred towards unbelievers on the internet?

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

4. A miniscule fraction of such terrorism in Canada ?  I would say 'miniscule fraction' would mean < 10%.  Can you find me more than 60 people murdered by Muslim terrorists in Canada in 2017 ?  I'm not saying that these are hard numbers but as I have said the order of magnitude is roughly the same.

Only because you're taking the actions of one crazy guy (according to the crown and judge), the one and only such attack, as indicative of a trend, and because the police have managed to stop all kinds of Islamic terrorist plans before they come to fruition or before they could kill many people (like the Somali refugee trying to grab the cop's gun and run people down in Edmonton) or the Muslim convert who was stopped by police in a taxi and blew himself up last year on the way to the mall or the two guys arrested before they could derail a train, or the guy arrested two blocks from my house a couple of years back for planning a bomb attack.

[Michael Hardner]

13 hours ago, Argus said:

1. First of all, despite your large percentage increase they're a tiny actually number. Just 159. Of these, most were words or mischief to buildings, while approximately 12 were assaults. By way of context, there were 219,000 assaults in Canada that year. So despite what memes people are sharing there doesn't seem to be much violence involved.

2. Crazy people gotta crazy. There's no evidence he was driven by memes from the likes of the yellow vest. He was a nut, and if he was incited by anything online it was Trump and the American nut movement.

3. Has anyone done that?  

4. Btw, the people who incite violence the most on the internet are Muslims.  

5. Only because you're taking the actions of one crazy guy (according to the crown and judge), the one and only such attack, as indicative of a trend, and because the police have managed to stop all kinds of Islamic terrorist plans before they come to fruition or before they could kill many people (like the Somali refugee trying to grab the cop's gun and run people down in Edmonton) or the Muslim convert who was stopped by police in a taxi and blew himself up last year on the way to the mall or the two guys arrested before they could derail a train, or the guy arrested two blocks from my house a couple of years back for planning a bomb attack.

1. I offer the statistics as a backup to the actual concern of increased hate rhetoric being published.  The increase of assaults is an indicator of where we are going, and we shouldn't have to wait until the numbers increase more to react.  History shows us where these things go.

2. He was mentally ill and he followed news sources that vilified Muslims then he killed Muslims.  I think that you would take that as evidence if the tables were turned and it was a so-called Islamist terrorist.

3. Yes - people are constantly dehumanizing them online, calling them inhuman, lying about them (the Toronto SUN did this

4. This is unprovable.  For you to state that blankly as a fact shows flawed thinking.

5. You're applying different criteria to those two kinds of terrorism.  For example - how many of the so-called Islamist terrorists are mentally ill ?  How many alt-right terrorist plans have been stopped.  These are also hard to know.  I maintain that such attacks of these two types are on the same order of magnitude - we're talking single-digit fatalities in a given year.  But we put a lot of effort into stopping so-called Islamists, so there's no reason to NOT reuse that surveillance for alt-right terrorist threats.

 

[Shady]

I’m looking forward to more Trudeau brand politics.  It’s done so well for the Liberals so far! 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I offer the statistics as a backup to the actual concern of increased hate rhetoric being published.  The increase of assaults is an indicator of where we are going, and we shouldn't have to wait until the numbers increase more to react.  History shows us where these things go.

The numbers are tiny and of little concern. Jews have worse (often from Muslims) despite being about one third as numerous as Muslims in Canada.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. He was mentally ill and he followed news sources that vilified Muslims then he killed Muslims.  I think that you would take that as evidence if the tables were turned and it was a so-called Islamist terrorist.

Mentally ill people can be inspired by such things. But the prevalence of Muslim hate on the internet vastly outweighs hatred for Muslims.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. Yes - people are constantly dehumanizing them online, calling them inhuman, lying about them (the Toronto SUN did this

Some of the things some Muslims do can definitely be described that way. The slaughter of those two nordic girls hiking in Morocco late last year, for example.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

4. This is unprovable.  For you to state that blankly as a fact shows flawed thinking.

Have you ever paid any attention to the Koran quotes or the other sayings from the Hadith which are liberally scattered throughout so many sites? Seen the number of videos of 'blessed attacks' on infidels which are widely available? Seen the gleeful chatter and mockery about the burning of Notre Dame? Hatred of Muslims has nothing to back it up except, for the most part, their own religion and the things done in the name of it throughout the world. Remember that this didn't really exist until Islamic attacks on the West began.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

5. You're applying different criteria to those two kinds of terrorism.  For example - how many of the so-called Islamist terrorists are mentally ill ?  How many alt-right terrorist plans have been stopped.  These are also hard to know.  I maintain that such attacks of these two types are on the same order of magnitude - we're talking single-digit fatalities in a given year.  But we put a lot of effort into stopping so-called Islamists, so there's no reason to NOT reuse that surveillance for alt-right terrorist threats.

I can't recall of a far right terrorist attack ever mentioned by the media in Canada, to be honest. either one that took place or one that was stopped by police before it could take place. I can't recall that so-and so planned to set off bombs in a public space, or derail a train, or blow up an airplane or the CN tower, or attack parliament and behead the prime minister. 

And again, if you're worried about incitement, it's patently clear that the agency most responsible for inciting violence against the innocent is Islam.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

1. Have you ever paid any attention to the Koran quotes or the other sayings from the Hadith  

2. I can't recall of a far right terrorist attack ever mentioned by the media in Canada, to be honest.  

1. You're engaging in circular reasoning here.

2. I guess you're conveniently attributing right-terror to mental illness and Muslim-terror to rational and purpose mental state. 

[scribblet]

On 4/18/2019 at 4:06 AM, jacee said:

So we have a gutter fight for an election, between the white supremacists and the Islamic terrorist sympathizers?

Could the Libs and Cons get any more pathetic and disgusting? 

Don't  know where you dreamed that one up.  The only people in the gutter are the liberals who started this with their gutter campaign which is the lowest any party has gone...even liberals such as Warren Kinsella are speaking out against such egregious tactics, and ndp nathan Cullen also  did so.   this baseless unfounded  tactic is even more egregious considering Trudeau's promise.  Those who find it  acceptable are as scummy, pathetic  and disgusting as those who dreamed it up.      sunny ways are now scummy ways

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by scribblet