USA Sinks into Authoritarinism

[Wilber]

3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I think all talk of Nazis should be put on hold until Trump starts his third term.

 

 

Quote

"He's now president for life. President for life. No, he's great," Trump said. "And look, he was able to do that. I think it's great. Maybe we'll have to give that a shot some day."

 

[bush_cheney2004]

Which country actually has a head of state for life...Canada.

[dialamah]

6 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I think all talk of Nazis should be put on hold until Trump starts his third term.

Nothing like closing the barn door after the horse has escaped.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Nothing like closing the barn door after the horse has escaped.

Go ahead and close it now.  Let me know how you're doing.

[Guest]

I can't quote Wilbur's post, but in response I would say, when did we decide to take Trump at his word?

Edited October 7, 2018 by bcsapper

[Guest]

Seriously though, I really think some people have forgotten what the Nazis were actually like.  Or they have decided the Nazis weren't that bad.  Either way they need to take a pill.

I will individually apologize to all concerned and join the nearest Antifa group with placards and my trusty shotgun on the day Trump starts his third term.

I might even vote for the Liberals.

[Wilber]

11 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I can't quote Wilbur's post, but in response I would say, when did we decide to take Trump at his word?

A lot of people thought Hitler wasn't serious. 

I don't think Trump gives a crap about democracy or people, everything is about him. How actively he will pursue it is debatable but with allies like McConnell he has made a good start and there is no doubt in my mind that he would like to be Emperor if he got the chance. The American system of checks and balances looks to be turning into an empty coat. But then, any system is only as good as the people who will defend it.

[OftenWrong]

3 minutes ago, Wilber said:

A lot of people thought Hitler wasn't serious. 

I don't think Trump gives a crap about democracy or people, everything is about him. How actively he will pursue it is debatable but with allies like McConnell he has made a good start and there is no doubt in my mind that he would like to be Emperor if he got the chance. The American system of checks and balances looks to be turning into an empty coat. But then, any system is only as good as the people who will defend it.

The more the left pushes out this kind of drivel - Trump is Hitler, Republicans are Nazis, America becoming Nazi Germany -  the less credible their arguments become. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Wilber said:

A lot of people thought Hitler wasn't serious. 

I don't think Trump gives a crap about democracy or people, everything is about him. How actively he will pursue it is debatable but with allies like McConnell he has made a good start and there is no doubt in my mind that he would like to be Emperor if he got the chance. The American system of checks and balances looks to be turning into an empty coat. But then, any system is only as good as the people who will defend it.

Basic disagreement here.  I don't think it matters what Trump is.  To my mind he is an accidental president who found himself in power because too many voters figured he didn't stand a chance so they stayed home and watched The Walking Dead instead.  Of course, now he is in power he's a bull in a china shop but the vote in November should curb his excesses a bit.

As for McConnell, I agree with your assessment of many of the current batch of Republicans.  They are a bunch of religious bigots who seem to want some kind of Christian Sharia law.  Even if they do manage to overturn Roe V Wade and turn all pro choice instead on wedding cake bakers I still think it's a long way from there to president for life and death camps. 

The American people will still have a say in their future every couple of years.

Of course, generally speaking, the world is going to hell.  So who knows, eh?

[bush_cheney2004]

Last time I checked, President Trump had not implemented the following authoritarian policies found in the recent past:

• Residential schools for "aboriginals"
• Forced sterilizations
• Scoop babies
• Land/resource theft
• Forced relocations
• "Genocide"

 

I guess Trump will just have to try harder.

[Wilber]

7 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Basic disagreement here.  I don't think it matters what Trump is.  To my mind he is an accidental president who found himself in power because too many voters figured he didn't stand a chance so they stayed home and watched The Walking Dead instead.  Of course, now he is in power he's a bull in a china shop but the vote in November should curb his excesses a bit.

As for McConnell, I agree with your assessment of many of the current batch of Republicans.  They are a bunch of religious bigots who seem to want some kind of Christian Sharia law.  Even if they do manage to overturn Roe V Wade and turn all pro choice instead on wedding cake bakers I still think it's a long way from there to president for life and death camps. 

The American people will still have a say in their future every couple of years.

Of course, generally speaking, the world is going to hell.  So who knows, eh?

Trump and McConnell are doing a pretty good job of suborning the courts. One check on the way out. With Gerrymandering and voter suppression, they are working on removing Congress as another check.  I share your hope about November, the people themselves may be the only check left because the balance is being systematically destroyed by the likes of McConnell. 

[dialamah]

49 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Seriously though, I really think some people have forgotten what the Nazis were actually like.  Or they have decided the Nazis weren't that bad.  Either way they need to take a pill.

I will individually apologize to all concerned and join the nearest Antifa group with placards and my trusty shotgun on the day Trump starts his third term.

I might even vote for the Liberals.

You should actually read the essay; it's not about Trump being a Nazi, or even getting a third term.  It's the undermining of democratic institutions which may lead to an illiberal regime.  The author doesn't even say this will happen, but notes the similarity in the history that allowed Hitler to gain power and what is happening in the States now.  His notion is that the consolidation of totalitarian power, if it happens, would mean that a "Republican Party" would forever hold power, and do whatever it wanted, including the erosion of rights of individuals.  To paraphrase my brother-in-law about Egyptian elections under Mubarak:  "I don't have to vote, the Republicans know who I want." 

[bush_cheney2004]

... and if "Nazi" pigs had wings, they could fly.

President Trump is just another U.S. president who has already been slapped down by the courts (original travel bans, DACA, illegal minors, etc.).   FDR was far more excessive and he is heralded as one of America's greatest presidents.

Trump will lose party seats in Congress in the next election, just like President Obama.

 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, dialamah said:

You should actually read the essay; it's not about Trump being a Nazi, or even getting a third term.  It's the undermining of democratic institutions which may lead to an illiberal regime.  The author doesn't even say this will happen, but notes the similarity in the history that allowed Hitler to gain power and what is happening in the States now.  His notion is that the consolidation of totalitarian power, if it happens, would mean that a "Republican Party" would forever hold power, and do whatever it wanted, including the erosion of rights of individuals.  To paraphrase my brother-in-law about Egyptian elections under Mubarak:  "I don't have to vote, the Republicans know who I want." 

Can a democracy be undermined democratically?  You can say what you like about Kavanaugh and the system that has now put him into place, and I have, repeatedly, but one thing it wasn't was undemocratic.  Illiberal is a pretty vague term, the basic dictionary definition being  "opposed to liberal principles; restricting freedom of thought or behavior".  There's an awful lot of that about.

I'm not saying that there does not come a point where decent people have to stand up and do something, but that point is not reached when one simply disagrees with the politics and policies of democratically elected officials.  They all have the right to do things that piss off a lot of people.  My governments always have.  The US is no different.

Edited October 7, 2018 by bcsapper

[WestCanMan]

17 hours ago, ReeferMadness said:

When a supreme court nominee runs into problems with serious allegations of sexual predation, the president orders a sham investigation; a move right out of the playbook of Validimir Putin.  As millions of the president's useful idiots (some of whom post right here on MLW!) concoct ridiculous rationalizations, the national law enforcement agency meekly follows the president's orders without a peep.  Despite the fact that the nominee has obviously been lying to congress for weeks, he is confirmed anyway.    What has happened this week is a stride towards a descent into authoritarianism, American style.

With a supreme court justice installed in such a disgraceful and corrupt fashion, what intelligent, thinking person could believe that when he needs to rule on Trump's corruption, he will render and impartial vote towards the verdict?

Unlike Russia, we are unlikely to see President Trump become president for life (although the way Trump lives and eats, that's unlikely to be long anyway).  The USA is now an oligarchy and Trump is himself the ultimate useful idiot, a reality TV personality playing the role of president.  Trump, a sad caricature completely lacking a moral compass who bumbles from issue to issue gathering headlines, makes the billionaires richer with huge tax cuts while simultaneously driving up military spending.  The USA is a jet and he's pointed the nose straight down and pushed the throttle to the max.   When he leaves or dies, there will be other useful idiots who come along right behind him.

 

 

So ironic that you say “serious allegations” and then call other people “useful idiots”.

You let yourself get led around by the nose by people who you know are lying to you, you couldn’t actually be any more useful to them or any more.......

The actual evidence has been discussed here ad nauseum and the Democrat side even acknowledges that they don’t have any. They moved their attacks from “actual crimes” to “lacking judicial temperament (when his reputation is slandered)”. 

Reefermadness - you support a system where any unsubstantiated accusation is instantly credible enough to derail a man’s life and career, and force an entire country to be deprived of getting the most qualified person on earth into one of it’s most critical roles. What kind of country can survive as an anti-meritocracy? Should a pothead get that job reefermadness? Is that what you’re spoiling for?

Should a major US party really be encouraging activists to commit crimes against their opponents? They already got 1 man shot and another assaulted. Republicans are seriously harassed on a daily basis just for doing their jobs and you’re right in line with that sleezy crew, down in the gutter. 

If you come into wisdom one say, you’ll look back on these days and wonder how you got duped into supporting the party of actual racism and misogyny.

 

 

 

 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

For everyone who sees a Hitler in anything they disagree with,  "Nazi" speech is protected by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution...to protect Americans from the real "Nazis" who would censor and regulate free speech in the United States.

This idea is much older than President Trump, and backed up by the courts.

 

 

[WestCanMan]

13 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Already answered by President Trump....creating a "Space Force"....colonies on the Moon....men/women on Mars to claim the entire planet for the United States.    Then star ships...first one to be named "U.S.S. Enterprise".

Boom! I’m seriously laughing my ass off.

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

 oppression of "others" support an illiberal regime in the US.

Who is being oppressed d? Proof. Links. 

Do you even know what an illiberal regime really looks like? Can women in the US be raped with impunity or put in jail for wearing/refusing to wear the right headdress? (I should say, can anyone aside from Bill Clinton and his cronies whom you support rape with impunity). Is any legal American suffering some kind of rights abuses? You need to make a strong case to back such a strong accusation d. As usual, you don’t. You slide in, throw around baseless accusations and insults, and then slide on out when you’re asked to prove anything that you said.

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Which country actually has a head of state for life...Canada.

I have to give Trudeau credit for one thing: he was smart enough to use public money to pay our national broadcaster to be forever in his pocket.

 

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Nothing like closing the barn door after the horse has escaped.

This is another example of you making an unsubstantiated accusation. Do ypu have proof that Trump is trying for a third term?

[taxme]

18 hours ago, ReeferMadness said:

When a supreme court nominee runs into problems with serious allegations of sexual predation, the president orders a sham investigation; a move right out of the playbook of Validimir Putin.  As millions of the president's useful idiots (some of whom post right here on MLW!) concoct ridiculous rationalizations, the national law enforcement agency meekly follows the president's orders without a peep.  Despite the fact that the nominee has obviously been lying to congress for weeks, he is confirmed anyway.    What has happened this week is a stride towards a descent into authoritarianism, American style.

With a supreme court justice installed in such a disgraceful and corrupt fashion, what intelligent, thinking person could believe that when he needs to rule on Trump's corruption, he will render and impartial vote towards the verdict?

Unlike Russia, we are unlikely to see President Trump become president for life (although the way Trump lives and eats, that's unlikely to be long anyway).  The USA is now an oligarchy and Trump is himself the ultimate useful idiot, a reality TV personality playing the role of president.  Trump, a sad caricature completely lacking a moral compass who bumbles from issue to issue gathering headlines, makes the billionaires richer with huge tax cuts while simultaneously driving up military spending.  The USA is a jet and he's pointed the nose straight down and pushed the throttle to the max.   When he leaves or dies, there will be other useful idiots who come along right behind him.

 

 

You appear to be concoting ridiculous rationalizations here. You appear to be one of those leftist liberal actors or activists that work for CNN, MSNBC or the CBC. All talk, no proof. If Kavanagh had been found guilty on any of those lying claims by those lying biotches, he would not be a supreme court judge today. It would appear as though those that were whining and demonstrating against Kavanaugh were clearly showing that they were not living on the bright and intelligent side of life but were living more on the dumb downed zombie side of foolishness and stupidity. But what  can one expect from people dummies who cannot think for themselves?   

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Which country actually has a head of state for life...Canada.

It's a figurehead whose main function is to ensure that parliament is acting in the interests of the people.  It's other main function is recognizing the achievements of Canadians and welcoming foreign dignitaries so that the PM can focus more on policy.  The GG is nothing like a president or a PM.  What political authority does Queen Elizabeth have in Great Britain?  Okay, she has a lot more money than our GG, but it's largely a symbolic role.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

It's a figurehead whose main function is to ensure that parliament is acting in the interests of the people.  It's other main function is recognizing the achievements of Canadians and welcoming foreign dignitaries so that the PM can focus more on policy.  The GG is nothing like a president or a PM.  What political authority does Queen Elizabeth have in Great Britain?  Okay, she has a lot more money than our GG, but it's largely a symbolic role.

 

Clearly you choose to ignore the history of British/Canadian imperialism under the "crown" mantle and sovereign....several members here maintain that Canada's government and its queen are inseparable....she (and her successors) are the "personification of the Canadian state", with a significant role in the Constitution Act, treaties, royal assent to legislation, etc.

Canada's sovereign is not elected,  cannot be impeached, and serves for life.

Trump wishes he had it so good.

 

[Zeitgeist]

11 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Clearly you choose to ignore the history of British/Canadian imperialism under the "crown" mantle and sovereign....several members here maintain that Canada's government and its queen are inseparable....she (and her successors) are the "personification of the Canadian state", with a significant role in the Constitution Act, treaties, royal assent to legislation, etc.

Canada's sovereign is not elected,  cannot be impeached, and serves for life.

Trump wishes he had it so good.

 

Our so-called head of state, the GG, is just about powerless, so we have no need to worry.  A PM or president for life, however?  That would be the end of democracy in our countries.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Our so-called head of state, the GG, is just about powerless, so we have no need to worry.  A PM or president for life, however?  That would be the end of democracy in our countries.

 

Of course...as long as Canada rejects republicanism it will have to be satisfied with an unelected  head of state.   Canada has had its own "Hitlers" since before the real Hitler was ever born.    God Save the Queen...and all that jazz.