USA Sinks into Authoritarinism

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, ReeferMadness said:

A leading Holocaust historian just seriously compared the US to Nazi Germany.

 

 

I started to read it, got to the first lie and stopped there:

Quote

Today, President Trump seems intent on withdrawing the US from the entire post–World War II structure of interlocking diplomatic, military, and economic agreements and organizations

Re-negotiating deals isn’t the same as withdrawing. Withdrawing from the Paris Climate Accord was just something that a sane person would do. The thing is a farce.

 

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

 

I'm not saying that there does not come a point where decent people have to stand up and do something, but that point is not reached when one simply disagrees with the politics and policies of democratically elected officials.  They all have the right to do things that piss off a lot of people.  

Have you read the article?   Judging by this response I think not.

If one waits until the "third term", whether literal or not, its too late to "stand up and do something".  Note again that the author does not claim certainty, only that the path to absolute power by Hitler is similar to the path being followed in the US by Republicans.  It's not just about this government or Kavanaugh, or Trump but about the way the political system has been manipulated, by certain Republicans, for at least a decade.  

 

[bush_cheney2004]

8 minutes ago, dialamah said:

If one waits until the "third term", whether literal or not, its too late to "stand up and do something".  Note again that the author does not claim certainty, only that the path to absolute power by Hitler is similar to the path being followed in the US by Republicans.  It's not just about this government or Kavanaugh, or Trump but about the way the political system has been manipulated, by certain Republicans, for at least a decade. 

 

Nonsense...how dare President Trump seek a second term as provided for in the U.S. Constitution.

Hell, a Canadian prime minister could actually serve for life.

Quote

In Canada, however, there is no limit to the length of time the Prime Minister can stay in office. William Lyon Mackenzie King currently holds the record for the longest serving Prime Minister, at more than 21 years. Macdonald, Trudeau, and Laurier all served more than 15 years each

 

 

Edited October 7, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Of course...as long as Canada rejects republicanism it will have to be satisfied with an unelected  head of state.   Canada has had its own "Hitlers" since before the real Hitler was ever born.    God Save the Queen...and all that jazz.

That's absurd and you know it.  When you don't have the glamour of a monarch, you create it.  Remember the Kennedys and Camelot?  The Queen and her role in a constitutional monarchy is mostly cultural.  It hearkens back to the Magna Carta and the early ideas of representative government and limiting the power of the landed gentry and feudal lord.  We enjoy the pageantry of the monarch and the GG and see the monarch as the symbolic family.  We like them on our tea cups and seeing them visit hospitals and our military, putting medals on lapels and visiting with indigenous chiefs as fellow heads of state.  There are many good things about having a monarchy as long as it has virtually no political authority, like in Canada.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

That's absurd and you know it.  When you don't have the glamour of a monarch, you create it.  Remember the Kennedys and Camelot?  The Queen and her role in a constitutional monarchy is mostly cultural.  It hearkens back to the Magna Carta and the early ideas of representative government and limiting the power of the landed gentry and feudal lord.  We enjoy the pageantry of the monarch and the GG and see the monarch as the symbolic family.  We like them on our tea cups and seeing them visit hospitals and our military, putting medals on lapels and visiting with indigenous chiefs as fellow heads of state.  There are many good things about having a monarchy as long as it has virtually no political authority, like in Canada.

 

...and you choose to selectively ignore the excesses of that imperialism around the world, with ramifications still being dealt with today.   Before Trump...before the United States...there was the "authoritarian" British Empire.   So many good things !

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Have you read the article?   Judging by this response I think not.

If one waits until the "third term", whether literal or not, its too late to "stand up and do something".  Note again that the author does not claim certainty, only that the path to absolute power by Hitler is similar to the path being followed in the US by Republicans.  It's not just about this government or Kavanaugh, or Trump but about the way the political system has been manipulated, by certain Republicans, for at least a decade.  

 

No, I haven't read it.  I rarely do.

That said, who would you have me kill?

[Zeitgeist]

28 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

...and you choose to selectively ignore the excesses of that imperialism around the world, with ramifications still being dealt with today.   Before Trump...before the United States...there was the "authoritarian" British Empire.   So many good things !

Don't worry, the U.S.A. is number one in causing shit worldwide!  Nicaragua, El Salvador, Panama, Chili, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya.  So much intervention in so little time, and far more than the Roman or British Empires: arms for hostages, opium for arms, arms for dictators, arms for Muslim extremists, Cold War black ops, CIA secret invasion, puppet dictatorships.  U.S.A.!  U.S.A.!  U.S.A.!

Edited October 7, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Don't worry, the U.S.A. is number one in causing shit worldwide!  Nicaragua, El Salvador, Panama, Chili, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Irag, Libya.  So much intervention in so little time, and far more than the Roman or British Empires: arms for hostages, opium for arms, arms for dictators, arms for Muslim extremists, Cold War black ops, CIA secret invasion, puppet dictatorships.  U.S.A.!  U.S.A.!  U.S.A.!

 

OK...so how is it that Donald Trump can do any worse than that ?  

Why is Trump being singled out ?   He hasn't even started a shooting war yet.

Edited October 7, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

 

Canada's sovereign is not elected,  cannot be impeached, and serves for life.

Trump wishes he had it so good.

 

C’mon b_c, making claims that you know to be false is beneath you. You spent so much time arguing with liberals you are acting like one now.

You know that the queen is just a figurehead with no say whatsoever in Canadian politics or foreign affairs. 

The day she becomes controversial is the day her pictures come down. 

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

1. No, I haven't read it.  I rarely do.

2. That said, who would you have me kill?

1. Then we are talking about different things and thats pointless.

2.  As this comment demonstrates.

[Wilber]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Don't worry, the U.S.A. is number one in causing shit worldwide!  Nicaragua, El Salvador, Panama, Chili, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya.  So much intervention in so little time, and far more than the Roman or British Empires: arms for hostages, opium for arms, arms for dictators, arms for Muslim extremists, Cold War black ops, CIA secret invasion, puppet dictatorships.  U.S.A.!  U.S.A.!  U.S.A.!

The country that Trump says will not interfere with others sovereignty is the same country that coined the phrase, Regime Change. Something it has indulged in and Trump has mused about on several occasions, Venezuela, Iran. 

[bush_cheney2004]

59 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

C’mon b_c, making claims that you know to be false is beneath you. You spent so much time arguing with liberals you are acting like one now.

You know that the queen is just a figurehead with no say whatsoever in Canadian politics or foreign affairs. 

The day she becomes controversial is the day her pictures come down. 

 

That isn't the point....Canadians gladly accept their constitutional monarchy with zero term limits on their head-of-state and prime minister.

But they have plenty of time to complain about a U.S. president and/or government.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Wilber said:

The country that Trump says will not interfere with others sovereignty is the same country that coined the phrase, Regime Change. Something it has indulged in and Trump has mused about on several occasions, Venezuela, Iran. 

 

While Canada's prime ministers actually plotted and acted to do so against Haiti....Trump has only "mused".

[ReeferMadness]

6 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I read some of that link. Saying "America First" equates to being a Nazi? Sounds like a Russian troll.

For right-wingers, any scientific or historical view that doesn't meet their warped world view is part of some vast conspiracy.

Seriously.  How do you people even use a microwave?

[ReeferMadness]

4 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

The more the left pushes out this kind of drivel - Trump is Hitler, Republicans are Nazis, America becoming Nazi Germany -  the less credible their arguments become. 

You didn't read the article, did you?  Have someone explain the big words to you.

[ReeferMadness]

5 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I think all talk of Nazis should be put on hold until Trump starts his third term.

Yes.  Because if history teaches us one thing, it's that you should always wait until AFTER tyrants have seized power and has established complete control over courts, police, military and other centers of power before you even think about being concerned.  Otherwise, when they make a movie about what happened, it will suck.

You know I used to think the Germans must have been dumb as rocks to get behind a raving lunatic like Hitler.  Now I see MAGA morons drooling over a guy who sounds just like someone's drunken, racist, senile uncle at a dinner party, I think that being dumb as rocks is just natural to about half the population.   There must be a god because there's no way Homo Sapiens has survived this long based on intelligence.

 

[WestCanMan]

28 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That isn't the point....Canadians gladly accept their constitutional monarchy with zero term limits on their head-of-state and prime minister.

But they have plenty of time to complain about a U.S. president and/or government.

 

If the queen had as much power over our every day lives and foreign policy as the US President does then your point would make sense. She has less influence than Oprah. Oprah has no term limits either.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

If the queen had as much power over our every day lives and foreign policy as the US President does then your point would make sense. She has less influence than Oprah. Oprah has no term limits either.

 

 

So Canada's prime minister is powerless and irrelevant too ?    No impact on every day lives ?

Does anybody matter in Canada compared to what Canadians like to watch on American television ?

Remember this ?

Quote

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper won a rare suspension of Parliament on Thursday, managing to avoid being ousted by opposition parties angry over the minority Conservative government’s economic plans and an attempt to cut off party financing.

Governor General Michaelle Jean — the representative of Queen Elizabeth, Canada’s head of state — agreed to Harper’s request to shut down Parliament until Jan 26. Parliament was reconvened just weeks ago after the October 14 election.

Harper’s request for suspension was unprecedented. No prime minister had asked for Parliament to be suspended to avoid a confidence vote in the House of Commons.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-politics-canada/canadian-pm-wins-suspension-of-parliament-idUSTRE4B34BC20081204

 

Edited October 7, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[WestCanMan]

21 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

You didn't read the article, did you?  Have someone explain the big words to you.

Why would someone need to read the article? Here's the title/link you posted: 

A leading Holocaust historian just seriously compared the US to Nazi Germany.

It's perfectly fine for someone to see that title and disregard it as drivel. 

Stupid comparisons between Trump and Hitler are made all the time, especially by people here. It's a mistake to read that stuff, quote it, give the author credit for his brilliant insights, etc. It's leftist drivel. 

And stop with the sandbox insults already reefer. 

[WestCanMan]

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

So Canada's prime minister is powerless and irrelevant too ?    No impact on every day lives ?

Does anybody matter in Canada compared to what Canadians like to watch on American television ?

Remember this ?

 

The Prime Minister is elected, not appointed or born with the power of an anointed monarch. Normally PMs don't have as much power over our government as a potus does over the US, but Trudea really has his MPs lined up to suck the power teat.

In the States a 3rd term is looked on as a big no-no. A serious grasp for too much power. It would be troubling of Obama or Trump went for a third term.

 

[ReeferMadness]

4 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Why would someone need to read the article? Here's the title/link you posted: 

A leading Holocaust historian just seriously compared the US to Nazi Germany.

 

Oh.  You made your judgement solely on the basis of the title of the article. 

Well.  Now I see why you get so offended when mocks your clearly superior intellect.

[WestCanMan]

Just now, ReeferMadness said:

Oh.  You made your judgement solely on the basis of the title of the article. 

Well.  Now I see why you get so offended when mocks your clearly superior intellect.

You're just assuming I never read it, I actually did read some of it before I came to the conclusion that it has no merit.

I was merely commenting on the fact that it's perfectly reasonable for OftenWrong to call it drivel and save the 2 minutes that I wasted on it. You also had no cause to be so insulting towards him/her.

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The Prime Minister is elected, not appointed or born with the power of an anointed monarch. Normally PMs don't have as much power over our government as a potus does over the US, but Trudea really has his MPs lined up to suck the power teat.

 

 

Actually, a Canadian PM has more unchecked power than a U.S. president....he/she is not elected by the entire nation or proxy for all provinces.   There are no term limits, and they are selected for party leadership without democratic process.

In case you missed this edit above...

Quote

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper won a rare suspension of Parliament on Thursday, managing to avoid being ousted by opposition parties angry over the minority Conservative government’s economic plans and an attempt to cut off party financing.

Governor General Michaelle Jean — the representative of Queen Elizabeth, Canada’s head of state — agreed to Harper’s request to shut down Parliament until Jan 26. Parliament was reconvened just weeks ago after the October 14 election.

Harper’s request for suspension was unprecedented. No prime minister had asked for Parliament to be suspended to avoid a confidence vote in the House of Commons.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-politics-canada/canadian-pm-wins-suspension-of-parliament-idUSTRE4B34BC20081204

 

Quote

In the States a 3rd term is looked on as a big no-no. A serious grasp for too much power. It would be troubling of Obama or Trump went for a third term.

 

It is complete fantasy....there is no such thing as a 3rd term because of the 22nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (1951).

Edited October 7, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[WestCanMan]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Actually, a Canadian PM has more unchecked power than a U.S. president....he/she is not elected by the entire nation or proxy for all provinces.   There are no term limits, and they are selected for party leadership without democratic process.

 

 

It is complete fantasy....there is no such thing as a 3rd term because of the 22nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (1951).

A PM doesn't have the unchecked power that you are talking about. PMs don't just belch out executive orders like Obama and Trump.

The entire nation does vote, and the party leadership selection isn't that much less democratic than that of the US. 

I'm well aware of the fact that at some point in the past a President came to the conclusion that a 3 term prez would be too powerful, and that measures were taken to stop it from happening, but I don't know how bulletproof they are.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

A PM doesn't have the unchecked power that you are talking about. PMs don't just belch out executive orders like Obama and Trump.

The entire nation does vote, and the party leadership selection isn't that much less democratic than that of the US.

 

I disagree...a Canadian PM with a ruling majority can get away with a lot.   Party leadership does not depend on primary elections in each province.

 

Quote

I'm well aware of the fact that at some point in the past a President came to the conclusion that a 3 term prez would be too powerful, and that measures were taken to stop it from happening, but I don't know how bulletproof they are.

 

They are as bulletproof as they ever can be.   That's why they are called "lame ducks" in the last year.  Trump certainly cannot do the equivalent of canceling elections or confidence votes in Parliament.