Faisal Hussain - the evolving story

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Canada Free Press ... Happy to publish misleading information and deny science to support right wing and Christian agendas.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/canada-free-press/

 

From CBC...the state broadcaster. 

"Court records show Hussain's older brother had a troubled past including criminal charges and a connection to a home in Pickering, east of the city, where police seized 33 firearms and a large stash of the powerful illegal drug carfentanil."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/danforth-background-brother-records-1.4764742

[DogOnPorch]

Thirty--three firearms!?? Him and what army?

[Centerpiece]

2 hours ago, scribblet said:

My guess is political interference is behind lack of information. ..

Did we just dodge a 9.11. 2.0.  https://canadafreepress.com/article/did-we-just-dodge-9-11-2.0

Holy batshit? Required reading.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Here's where you go over the top. You like to believe you are fair and non-biased, non partisan, not stuck in believing certain "memes". Well Mimi, I hate to say it but you get the irony award again.

I don't hold back for liars and people who spread anti-semitism and hate, sorry.  Go ahead and use them though if your conscience allows it.

[OftenWrong]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't hold back for liars and people who spread anti-semitism and hate, sorry.  Go ahead and use them though if your conscience allows it.

I can appreciate that you don't want to be associated with those types, but you need not imply that I could be. I prefer we discuss the thread topic, not antisemitism, or my conscience.

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

What part of the link do you call horseshit?

The site is horseshit.  If people can't find legit sites to post from, then I am going to assume they are spreading misinformation, either deliberately or not and I am going to call them out on it.  If the info in the horseshit site is more than hearsay and speculation, a credible site will also post the information.  A credible site will provide facts, not speculation.  And it won't have clickbait fear-mongering headlines like "Did we just dodge 9/11 2?"

Here is an article that is credible and provides the same info, without the speculation, guessing, assumptions and fear-mongering indulged by CFP and lapped up by gullible people.

Edited July 31, 2018 by dialamah

[turningrite]

6 hours ago, Goddess said:

I expect Canadians will get a good tongue-lashing from him for causing this person to open fire on the public.  Sort of like his "Canadians have no appreciation for Canada, only refugees appreciate Canada" speech for Canada's 150th Birthday - that was nice.  Or maybe like his indignant speech to chastise Canadians immediately after the hijab-cutting hoax.

Based on the news coverage I watched earlier this evening, his visit to the Danforth was relatively subdued. He was heckled at the parkette that's become an informal memorial of sorts to the Danforth shooting victims so perhaps he was aware that an overt political commentary might not have been appreciated. As far as the TV news coverage is illustrative of Trudeau's appearance, he said nothing specific about the actual incident he was there to memorialize, making me wonder if he was trying to avoid media questions on the topic. And he didn't appear as ebullient as is usually the case and seemed somewhat nervous, making me wonder if he is actually nervous about details that have yet to officially come to light?

[DogOnPorch]

Details like how they all share a mere few degrees of separation from each other...the shooter...Trudeau...Khadr...Boyle...the Muslim Brother dude writing apologies...the whole stinking lot.

It stinks...it stinks...it stinks.

...and some like the smell.

[eyeball]

13 hours ago, Goddess said:

You really, really, really underestimate the relationship between religious fanaticism and behaviour.

What's your estimation of the relationship between exceptionalism and fanatical behaviour?  

 

12 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

 Does fanaticism lead to terrorism?  Of course it does.

What if they're co-incident effects of a separate cause?

[capricorn]

7 hours ago, turningrite said:

And he didn't appear as ebullient as is usually the case and seemed somewhat nervous, making me wonder if he is actually nervous about details that have yet to officially come to light?

In addition, how long before he has a total meltdown?

[capricorn]

9 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I can appreciate that you don't want to be associated with those types, but you need not imply that I could be. I prefer we discuss the thread topic, not antisemitism, or my conscience.

Just another indicator that Liberals and leftists are getting more and more shrill as time goes on.

[Michael Hardner]

9 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I can appreciate that you don't want to be associated with those types, but you need not imply that I could be. I prefer we discuss the thread topic, not antisemitism, or my conscience.

It's in the context of sources we are using for the current discussion about Faisal.  There's a poster here who likes to use far-right lying websites and then claim that if it's on the internet it's true.  I would use the National Post as a source, as it's still a responsible publication for the most part.

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, eyeball said:

 What if they're co-incident effects of a separate cause?

Well, good point but I *did* say 'lead to', indicating that it precedes it stepwise.  I didn't say "causes".  The causes of fanatacism include extreme tribalism, mental illness, paranoia etc.

[Goddess]

12 hours ago, dialamah said:

The site is horseshit.  If people can't find legit sites to post from, then I am going to assume they are spreading misinformation, either deliberately or not and I am going to call them out on it.  If the info in the horseshit site is more than hearsay and speculation, a credible site will also post the information.  A credible site will provide facts, not speculation.  And it won't have clickbait fear-mongering headlines like "Did we just dodge 9/11 2?"

Here is an article that is credible and provides the same info, without the speculation, guessing, assumptions and fear-mongering indulged by CFP and lapped up by gullible people.

The only difference I see between the 2 articles is that the link Scribblet posted informs of what exactly 42 kilos of carfentanyl can do.  The vast majority of Canadians would have no clue what the significance of 42 kilos of carfentanyl would be and why that amount should be troubling.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

The only difference I see between the 2 articles is that the link Scribblet posted informs of what exactly 42 kilos of carfentanyl can do.  The vast majority of Canadians would have no clue what the significance of 42 kilos of carfentanyl would be and why that amount should be troubling.

 

Seeing just one kilo of the stuff could kill us all if applied "correctly"...

The theater hostage situation in Russia some time back was apparently 'solved' using this stuff.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

The only difference I see between the 2 articles is that the link Scribblet posted informs of what exactly 42 kilos of carfentanyl can do.  The vast majority of Canadians would have no clue what the significance of 42 kilos of carfentanyl would be and why that amount should be troubling.

Here's one small but telling difference in the two articles:

CFP states "Farad probably “overdosed” off the ambient vapours in the house."

Toronto Sun, eschewing speculative nonsense, says he  "had consumed both heroin and cocaine and the cocaine in his lungs was “possibly laced” with another substance, court heard".

Why should I, or anyone, take seriously anything in that article when there is such clear and blatant evidence of their lack of journalistic integrity?   Defending such sites with the claim that they're just telling us what mainstream media/politicians won't is the claim every conspiritard makes about their pet conspiracy, whether its anti-vaccers or 9/11 "truthers".

[Goddess]

13 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Here's one small but telling difference in the two articles:

CFP states "Farad probably “overdosed” off the ambient vapours in the house."

Toronto Sun, eschewing speculative nonsense, says he  "had consumed both heroin and cocaine and the cocaine in his lungs was “possibly laced” with another substance, court heard".

So you're going to dismiss the info on what 42 kilos of carfentanyl can do and the significance of that amount of product because they didn't include (actually it looks like neither article included it)  the exact cause of this guy's brother's overdose?

Mmmm-OK.

[Argus]

On 7/30/2018 at 7:58 AM, Michael Hardner said:

1. Already you show a bias by assuming the conclusion you reached from the observation is correct.

With what do you disagree? That this is typical behaviour throughout the Muslim world?

On 7/30/2018 at 7:58 AM, Michael Hardner said:

2. At this point you have already decided the religion is the reason and you are looking to validate your foregone conclusion.  You find violence in the holy books (it is in other holy books too) and conclude that is the reason.

Is there any other similarity which links nations as diverse as Jordan and Pakistan, Nigeria and Indonesia which might produce a similar violent behaviour pattern towards those who are seen as being critical of or in defiance of Islam?

On 7/30/2018 at 7:58 AM, Michael Hardner said:

3. Freedom of religion works, and there's no reason to think Muslims will be different than other religions. 

And yet they demonstrably are. Denying reality is an unconvincing argument.

[Michael Hardner]

12 minutes ago, Argus said:

1. With what do you disagree? That this is typical behaviour throughout the Muslim world?

2. Is there any other similarity which links nations as diverse as Jordan and Pakistan, Nigeria and Indonesia which might produce a similar violent behaviour pattern towards those who are seen as being critical of or in defiance of Islam?

3. And yet they demonstrably are. Denying reality is an unconvincing argument.

1. I didn't disagree, but it is unproven.  You have to prove out your observation.

2. Again, you have to prove it.

3. You haven't demonstrated that, objectively.

[turningrite]

6 hours ago, capricorn said:

In addition, how long before he has a total meltdown?

Given that the public is being told little or nothing about the Danforth shooting investigation by authorities, I guess we have to revert to a form of what might best be termed 'Trudeauology' just as during the Soviet era commentators on that regime's intentions and motives looked for secondary clues in a fashion referred to as 'Kremlinology'. As I said in a post yesterday evening, Trudeau didn't seem himself on the TV news coverage of his visit to the Danforth. Today's Toronto Star was a little bit more precise about his commentary, where it indicated that he did roll out his boilerplate "compassion" speech although it's not entirely clear what he was asking those present to be compassionate about. I don't think he needed to lecture the crowd on public compassion for the actual victims as this has been more demonstrably apparent than it has in the government's response to date. Interestingly, in the Star's GTA Section coverage of Trudeau's Danforth appearance, a staff reporter notes that "Without offering any details, [Trudeau] said it was important for governments to look at the best ways they (sic) to keep citizens safe." (The apparent editing error in the print version is the Star's.) Hmmm.... But isn't this the same government that's assured us we are safe? Again, you have to wonder what they're not telling us, and why? And why did Trudeau seem so preoccupied? Surely after a little vacation time he should have been well-rested.

Edited July 31, 2018 by turningrite

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

1. So you're going to dismiss the info on what 42 kilos of carfentanyl can do

2. and the significance of that amount of product because they

3. didn't include (actually it looks like neither article included it)  the exact cause of this guy's brother's overdose?

Mmmm-OK.

1.  I already know carfentanil is extremely toxic and 42 kgs of the stuff would kill a lot of people.  I didn't need a fake news site to tell me that.

2. The significance, according to this source, is that there was a plot afoot to use that and the guns in a terrorist plot and that police, government and media hid that information.  Correct?   I respond by pointing out the lack of credibility of the source, and (right wing, anti-Islamist) people think this is an odd reaction? Wow.  No fecking wonder fake news is so prevalent.  

3.  So to you, a court saying that he had heroin and cocaine, possibly laced, in his system is just as credible as a speculative and heavily biased source saying he probably died from carfentanil fumes?  

Mmmm-OK.

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by dialamah
Commas matter

[scribblet]

7 hours ago, capricorn said:

In addition, how long before he has a total meltdown?

No problem, he's jetted off back to his vacation 

Just because a person doesn't like the source cos it's not left wing enough doesn't make it safe, the info was the same.  Most media offer speculation and so on.  

Edited July 31, 2018 by scribblet

[Goddess]

47 minutes ago, dialamah said:

1.  I already know carfentanil is extremely toxic and 42 kgs of the stuff would kill a lot of people.  I didn't need a fake news site to tell me that.

2. The significance, according to this source, is that there was a plot afoot to use that and the guns in a terrorist plot and that police, government and media hid that information.  Correct?   I respond by pointing out the lack of credibility of the source, and (right wing, anti-Islamist) people think this is an odd reaction? Wow.  No fecking wonder fake news is so prevalent.  

3.  So to you, a court saying that he had heroin and cocaine, possibly laced, in his system is just as credible as a speculative and heavily biased source saying he probably died from carfentanil fumes?  

Mmmm-OK.

 

So anything that suggests this was Islamic terrorism is completely dismissed by you, then, right?  Not even a possibility worth considering.  He was just a poor, mentally ill man, deserving of our sympathies.

Gotcha.

Edit, and I'm not saying it WAS terrorism, but I at least am going to consider the possibility and not dismiss information out of hand just because it doesn't fit what I want to believe.  Frankly, from what I see, there is just as much evidence that this is terrorism as there is that he was merely an innocent person with a few mental issues.

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Goddess

[turningrite]

25 minutes ago, scribblet said:

No problem, he's jetted off back to his vacation 

Just because a person doesn't like the source cos it's not left wing enough doesn't make it safe, the info was the same.  Most media offer speculation and so on.  

I'm not sure how germane details relating to Hussain's brother are to the Danforth investigation. There were apparent leaks from the investigation that were reported in the days following the shooting although these leaks recently appear to have been plugged. There was an interesting AP report last week, which I referenced via a link in a previous post on this topic, that appears to have received little if any attention in Canadian mainstream media coverage. It seems to me that the coverage has been throttled, but it's not clear whether this might be due to a request on the part of the government for media deference, which if so would suggest an abdication by our mainstream media of their crucial role in our democracy. It might, however, be justified in the event of a security emergency, in which case I believe the public should at least be permitted to know this is the case. Trudeau's bizarrely vague comment yesterday about finding ways to keep citizens safe seems troubling in the absence of actual information. In a vacuum, is it any wonder that independent and perhaps more biased outlets may be reaching wider audiences? If this is the case, it appears to be the government's fault. It's up to the government to set the record straight.

Edited July 31, 2018 by turningrite

[taxme]

23 hours ago, Goddess said:

I expect Canadians will get a good tongue-lashing from him for causing this person to open fire on the public.  Sort of like his "Canadians have no appreciation for Canada, only refugees appreciate Canada" speech for Canada's 150th Birthday - that was nice.  Or maybe like his indignant speech to chastise Canadians immediately after the hijab-cutting hoax.

Trudeau or any other Canadian politician in Canada would never dare to utter the words --Muslim terrorist-- when it comes to a Muslim going on a murder spree and killing plenty of innocent Canadian citizen's for Allah. Hell will freeze over first. We should pretty much know by now as to where and what side our politically correct puppet on a string politician are on and it ain't Canada or Canadians, pardner. In my travels I have heard many Canadians say that they are sure glad that they live in Canada and are Canadian. Why this poor excuse for a PM would say that refugees appreciate Canada more than Canadians do is beyond me. But what else can one expect from a loser drama teacher like him.

In reality though why wouldn't new legal and illegal refugees and new immigrants say that they appreciate Canada more? Probably because where most of them came from were nothing more than shit hole countries. And also because Canada offers plenty of freebies to them when they get here and all of course at the Canadian taxpayer's expense. I am pretty sure the one thing that Canadians do not appreciate is watching their tax dollars being blown and wasted by the hundreds of millions of their tax dollars being blown and wasted every day on criminal illegals that this prime mistake allows in by the hundreds every day.