Iran needs some democracy

[marcus]

On 2/8/2019 at 2:34 PM, cannuck said:

That is your conclusion, but it is not shared by my Iranian friends (who are exceedingly well educated, BTW).

It's true that there is a population, many uneducated, and living in the rural areas, that supports the mullahs. But they do not outnumber those who are opposed to the government. Many are families of military men who died in the Iraq/Iran war and they receive a sizeable pay cheque each month. So there is an economic incentive involved as well.

[cannuck]

5 hours ago, marcus said:

 Many are families of military men who died in the Iraq/Iran war and they receive a sizeable pay cheque each month. So there is an economic incentive involved as well.

Hadn't heard of that, but it makes perfectly good sense.

[Dougie93]

17 hours ago, marcus said:

It's true that there is a population, many uneducated, and living in the rural areas, that supports the mullahs. But they do not outnumber those who are opposed to the government. Many are families of military men who died in the Iraq/Iran war and they receive a sizeable pay cheque each month. So there is an economic incentive involved as well.

Exactly this.  Urban rural divide. And the rural has its own internal army.   The Basij, which means "Mobilization"  full name "Mobilization Resistance Force of the Oppressed"

[Dougie93]

When one simply recalls the nature of the regime which was overthrown in 1979, which was opulent western decadence for the urban elites, brutal impoverished and violent repression of everybody else, "let them eat cake and torture them to death if they don't like that", one can quickly grasp what the problem in Iran is.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Khomeini was fully aware that his ultimate revolutionary goals would not be popular in Iran. Initial alliances with the left and middle class would be necessary until full control of the state had been established, after which terror could be used to eliminate former friends and consolidate his position. The parallels with the Soviet Union, a godless regime that he so hated and despised, are striking. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by SpankyMcFarland

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The parallels with the Soviet Union, a godless regime that he so hated and despised, are striking. 

That's just the inherent conservative nature of power shining thru.  Surely you're not suggesting these people or their regimes governed their people in a manner that even remotely resembles a truly progressive outlook.

[kactus]

4 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Khomeini was fully aware that his ultimate revolutionary goals would not be popular in Iran. Initial alliances with the left and middle class would be necessary until full control of the state had been established, after which terror could be used to eliminate former friends and consolidate his position. The parallels with the Soviet Union, a godless regime that he so hated and despised, are striking. 

The initial alliances with the left (Tudeh party very popular then amongst Iranian jews) and the islamists from the rural impoverished regions was what Khomeini needed to gain control and subsequently silence the opposition.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Were Khomeini’s poems any good in Farsi? Although allegorical, his topics are still surprising to a foreign eye:

The Wine of Love

I am a hunter of taverns, don't ask me about the Beloved.
I am dumb, so from the dumb, and distracted don't ask for an oration.
I'm preoccupied with my own blindness and wretchedness,
So from the blind don't ask for sight and vision.

Your languid eyes have brought on my own languor,
So don't ask from one so smitten for aught but delirious ravings.
Don't consort with a wandering dervish, but if ever you do,
Never ask him about wisdom, philosophy, scripture, or of the sayings of the Prophet.

I am drunk with the wine of Thy love, so from such a drunkard
Don't ask for the sober counsel of a man of the world.

 

The Consolation of the Pir

Kiss the hand of the shaykh who has pronounced me a disbeliever.
Congratulate the guard who has led me away in chains.
I'm going into a solitary retreat
from noon by the door of the Magus,

So that in one gulp I may be filled
with the wine of both worlds.
I will not drink the water of Kawthar;
I will not take this heavenly favor.

The beam which shines on your face, oh Friend,
has made me a conqueror of the world.
Console the heart of the dervish from whom the eternal secret

Has been disclosed; who has made me aware of my destiny.
I congratulate the Pir of the tavern who has himself grasped
My annihilation, my nothingness, and who has captivated me,

A servant of my Pir, who comforts the heart himself,
Of one who has forgotten himself and whom he has turned upside down.

https://www.al-islam.org/wine-love-mystical-poetry-imam-khomeini/ghazal-poetry#releasing-goblet

 

 

 

 

[n_d]

On 1/2/2018 at 7:35 PM, GostHacked said:

Hey USA, UN et al,  DON'T turn Iran into the failed Iraq.   That is all.

It is too late. We have to spread the freedom of transgender sex science and homo marriage. We will not rest until the rest of the world just wakes up and realizes they are bigots.

 

[CITIZEN_2015]

Iranian female boxer to be first Iranian female boxer on international stage asks Iranian females to be even more courageous and fight harder to achieve what they deserve after being declared the winner yesterday in France. Long live lion hearted Iranian females who are risking their lives to achieve freedom and equality they deserve.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/boxer-sadaf-khadem-to-break-barrier-for-iranian-women-11438838

And she was declared winner in a game against the French champion.

 

And all these happening the same day when anther Iranian female Vida Movahedi was sentenced to jail for simply protesting the hated imposed mandatory islamic hijab.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/iran-hijab-protester-sentenced-to-a-year-in-jail-lawyer-11444246

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

And now she is banned from returning home.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/17/sadaf-khadem-iranian-boxer-halts-return-arrest-clothing

What a disgraceful regime.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

And now she is banned from returning home.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/17/sadaf-khadem-iranian-boxer-halts-return-arrest-clothing

What a disgraceful regime.

Well, there's a lawyer who stood up for Iranian women who didn't want to wear a hijab.  Maybe she could help.

Oh no, that's right, she was locked up for 38 years and sentenced to be whipped.  Shame that.

[SpankyMcFarland]

The US is now telling India and China where they can and can’t buy their oil. That will be a problem for both countries, especially India which has a good relationship with Iran. 

[CITIZEN_2015]

It appears the US is getting serious to drive Iran regime's oil export to zero. This would be very serious for the regime which uses oil revenues to pay off its guards and its paramilitary basij mercenaries heavily to suppress its nation however, sadly it will be very painful for the Iran nation too. Is it true to say no pain and no gain but the pain may be so severe that it may cause the death of this ancient civilization  in the hands of the regime as some regions with  minorities may choose separation than remaining their 25 centuries ties with the Persian nation. All this because of a huge mistake by the past generation who started a revolution when the nation was prosperous with double digit annual growth and a regional superpower when the Shah was ruling.

Edited May 1, 2019 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

Mullah's regime is collapsing while the nation cheers a cleric shot dead in the Iranian Western city. One less cleric, they posted. 

https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2019/05/04/why-shia-clerics-are-turning-on-irans-theocracy

Hoping they will collapse before the entire country is collapsed as they have done anything to destroy the country and its ancient nation.

 

[GostHacked]

DON'T Believe a damn thing the USA is saying regarding the tankers in the Gulf being attacked by Iran.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/iran-tanker-unexploded-mine-gulf-oman

IF Iran was placing the mines, why would they risk trying to get an un-exploded mine back? 

I doubt this is the actions if Iran.

Quote

A U.S. official told Fox News an Iranian gunboat approached the Kokuka Courageous later in the day and removed the unexploded triangular-shaped limpet mine, the same type of mine used to damage four other tankers in the Gulf of Oman last month.

The official, who requested anonymity to discuss sensitive information, said the suspected Iranian vessel did not bear any flags, nor did the crew members wear any uniforms. But, the class of vessel, what the U.S. military has called a fast inshore attack craft (FIAC), was the same type of ship used by Iran to harass American warships in the Persian Gulf in recent years.

 

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I doubt this is the actions if Iran.

I suppose this is step up from using cartoons of WMD's to drum up support for war but I wonder why the US can't simply appeal to good old fashioned patriotic exceptionalism?  Surely that would be a lot less humiliating.

[marcus]

It wouldn't be surprising if Iran is behind it. But where is the proof? Just because America says so? We've seen this before. Even Japan is requesting more proof:

Japan demands more proof from U.S. that Iran attacked tankers

The Japanese government has been requesting the United States for concrete evidence to back its assertion that Iran is to blame for the attacks on two tankers near the Strait of Hormuz on Thursday, government sources said Sunday.

The request came after U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo gave a statement hours after the attacks blaming Iran but without offering proof. The Department of Defense later released a video allegedly showing an Iranian patrol boat removing an unexploded mine attached to the side of the Japanese-operated tanker Kokuka Courageous.

But Japanese government officials remain unconvinced, the sources said. "The U.S. explanation has not helped us go beyond speculation," said one senior government official.

[GostHacked]

I should put this here as well.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/21/politics/trump-military-strikes-iran/index.html

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

I would assume that Iran attacked the tankers. The mullahs have a very weak hand to play. Their economy is being destroyed by sanctions and they face an armada a few miles off their coast. But there’s no way they can meekly surrender to the neocons and accept grossly humiliating terms from America, of all countries. Their only hope is in challenging Trump with escalating incidents and see if he really wants to start a war that could doom his re-election chances. Perhaps he would then be willing to negotiate some minor change to the status quo that would let both sides claim victory. 

[GostHacked]

14 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I would assume that Iran attacked the tankers. The mullahs have a very weak hand to play. Their economy is being destroyed by sanctions and they face an armada a few miles off their coast. But there’s no way they can meekly surrender to the neocons and accept grossly humiliating terms from America, of all countries. Their only hope is in challenging Trump with escalating incidents and see if he really wants to start a war that could doom his re-election chances. Perhaps he would then be willing to negotiate some minor change to the status quo that would let both sides claim victory. 

There is still no proof at all that the USA has that shows it was Iran.

Remember when they said Saddam had WMDs? 

Remember when they said Iraq was throwing children out of incubaters?

Remember when Rumsfeld talked about Al-Queda's mountain bases?

Or Colin Powell's checmical trucks?

I am 100%  certain the USA is lying about this just to provoke Iran into doing something that the USA can use to bomb them. 

[Michael Hardner]

11 hours ago, GostHacked said:

There is still no proof at all that the USA has that shows it was Iran. 

The US has a tough time convincing its allies in some situations.  With the current administration, I wouldn't be surprised if nobody goes along with it.

[Michael Hardner]

To add: FOX News apparently said Trump's version of the cancellation 'didn't add up'.

[bush_cheney2004]

23 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

The US has a tough time convincing its allies in some situations.  With the current administration, I wouldn't be surprised if nobody goes along with it.

 

Then be surprised if they do....

 

Quote

Germany says there is 'strong evidence' Iran behind tanker attacks

Chancellor Angela Merkel has said there is "strong evidence" Iran carried out attacks on two tankers in the Gulf of Oman. She also warned Iran of consequences if it violated the 2015 international nuclear deal.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-says-there-is-strong-evidence-iran-behind-tanker-attacks/a-49248524

 

[Michael Hardner]

39 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Then be surprised if they do....

 

 

Ok, well that's going to help them.