NAFTA negotiations.

[OftenWrong]

18 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

You may not like her, but she’s no dummy. 

That's all well and good, but not if Trump doesn't like her.

[Wilber]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

That's all well and good, but not if Trump doesn't like her.

Trump can’t stand strong women who stand up to him. That’s why he detests the likes of Merkel and May. 

[Wilber]

14 hours ago, Machjo said:

Freeland is complicating things way too much. She needs to promote unilateral free trade and recognize that any tariff the US or the EU imposes on Canada is to their own respective consumers' own detriment. Just because the US and the EU want to shoot themselves in the foot doesn't mean Canada has to do the same.

Unilateral free trade is an oxymoron. 

[OftenWrong]

59 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Trump can’t stand strong women who stand up to him. That’s why he detests the likes of Merkel and May. 

A lot of people detest them, and not because they have a vagina.

[Wilber]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

A lot of people detest them, and not because they have a vagina.

Some, but when you look at all the sexist, homophobic crap directed at Freeland these days, I think a hell of a lot of it is.

[bush_cheney2004]

Freeland sure spends a lot of time in the United States...says the Americans should keep bearing the majority of the "post WW2" burden.

She brings all of that baggage plus Trudeau's "feminist agenda" to NAFTA negotiations.

If Liberal Canada wants all that so bad....then Canada should pay for it.

[OftenWrong]

5 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Some, but when you look at all the sexist, homophobic crap directed at Freeland these days, I think a hell of a lot of it is.

Liberals want to include their vision of identity politics into the mix. That is the problem many voters have with her, and with Justin Trudeau. It has nothing to do with her being a woman, as many women in Canadian politics are well respected. I suspect it is a sticking issue with NAFTA negotiations as well.

[Wilber]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

Liberals want to include their vision of identity politics into the mix. That is the problem many voters have with her, and with Justin Trudeau. It has nothing to do with her being a woman, as many women in Canadian politics are well respected. I suspect it is a sticking issue with NAFTA negotiations as well.

They are respected by many that's why they were elected, but if you look at the comments sections of news articles on NAFTA, there are tons of sexist comments about Freeland that have nothing to do with NAFTA or her job.

[OftenWrong]

Just now, Wilber said:

They are respected by many that's why they were elected, but if you look at the comments sections of news articles on NAFTA, there are tons of sexist comments about Freeland that have nothing to do with NAFTA or her job.

And you believe those trolls represent something important? That's not what the problem is. Let's not detract from valid criticism of the Liberal policy/ agenda, with bullshit accusations of mere sexism. 

[bush_cheney2004]

NAFTA is not the place for Trudeau/Freeland's "feminist agenda"...it was rejected by Asian nations and should be rejected by Mexico and the United States.

Take that crap back to Canada.

 

[Wilber]

37 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

And you believe those trolls represent something important? That's not what the problem is. Let's not detract from valid criticism of the Liberal policy/ agenda, with bullshit accusations of mere sexism. 

It’s important if enough people share their views and it isn’t bullshit. There are always valid criticisms of every policy. Who gives a shit if Trump likes her or not, the feeling is probably mutual. This is supposed to be a negotiation, not a popularity contest. 

As far as deadlines go, this was cooked up by the US and Mexico. Their deadline, their problem. Canada had nothing to do with it.

 

[OftenWrong]

54 minutes ago, Wilber said:

It’s important if enough people share their views and it isn’t bullshit. There are always valid criticisms of every policy. Who gives a shit if Trump likes her or not, the feeling is probably mutual. This is supposed to be a negotiation, not a popularity contest. 

As far as deadlines go, this was cooked up by the US and Mexico. Their deadline, their problem. Canada had nothing to do with it.

 

Any attempt for the Canadian government to take a moral high ground holds absolutely no weight. I sure hope that Canadian negotiators do not take this cavalier, irresponsible attitude.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Wilber said:

It’s important if enough people share their views and it isn’t bullshit. There are always valid criticisms of every policy. Who gives a shit if Trump likes her or not, the feeling is probably mutual. This is supposed to be a negotiation, not a popularity contest. 

As far as deadlines go, this was cooked up by the US and Mexico. Their deadline, their problem. Canada had nothing to do with it.

 

On your first point, Trump's crowd won't support the Trudeau domestic agenda and so-called feminist approach because it sounds very Democrat.  We get that the negotiating teams are of very different political stripes.  Oh well, the sides have to hash it out and find middle ground.  Canada isn't a functionary of U.S. policy, no matter who is in office.  We elect our representatives to express our values.  Trudeau has many detractors, but he won the election and Trump won his.

On your second point, I agree wholeheartedly.  This was a kangaroo court NAFTA negotiation.  It didn't involve all three countries and it has been largely directed by the U.S.  The attempt by the U.S. to remove a dispute resolution mechanism from a new agreement just further entrenches this unfairness.  Why should U.S. courts be given the authority to make decisions about whether any of the three countries is treated unfairly in a trade dispute?  Talk about conflict of interest.  Ridiculous.  This is why Canada should walk away from these so-called negotiations.  The current U.S. administration isn't seeking a fair deal.  I wish that they were.  I know that Freeland is holding out for fairness as well, but I think we need to accept that it's unlikely that Canada will sign onto a deal by this arbitrary deadline that one country, the U.S., is unilaterally setting.  Continue negotiations, sure.  We'll probably get a fairer deal after the mid-terms, but maybe not.  Canada has to be prepared for that as well as auto tariffs, as this president has demonstrated that he's willing to go out on a limb and implement damaging policy.  We'll launch our counter-tariffs if it comes to that and we'll reshape our trade and economy if need be.  

[Queenmandy85]

It is important to never walk away. We need to keep negociating for as long as it takes or for President Trump to try and remove Canada from NAFTA. That likely could not take place until next year and the US administration would likely meet with domestic opposition. 

The US objective has always been to kill NAFTA. It didn't matter who was negociating on Canada's behalf. Supply management did not become an issue until it appeared an agreement was near, then the US moved the goal posts. The US wishes to crush Canada just as they recently did to Mexico. If we give in on supply management, then they will go after Canada's auto sector. Never give in and never give up. Stretch it out for another six years if neccessary. If we can delay the signing between the US and Mexico until after the new government in Mexico takes office, they may not be so eager to sign.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Queenmandy85
Additional comment

[Zeitgeist]

5 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

It is important to never walk away. We need to keep negociating for as long as it takes or for President Trump to try and remove Canada from NAFTA. That likely could not take place until next year and the US administration would likely meet with domestic opposition. 

The US objective has always been to kill NAFTA. It didn't matter who was negociating on Canada's behalf. Supply management did not become an issue until it appeared an agreement was near, then the US moved the goal posts. The US wishes to crush Canada just as they recently did to Mexico. If we give in on supply management, then they will go after Canada's auto sector. Never give in and never give up. Stretch it out for another six years if neccessary. We should negociate like the Israeliis. Perhaps if we suddenly started developing nuclear weapons, President Trump would love us even more, just like his new friend Kim.

Good points all.  We'll continue to negotiate in good faith.  We won't sign a bad deal.

[Queenmandy85]

Time is our friend. That is why the US is trying to rush it.

[Wilber]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Any attempt for the Canadian government to take a moral high ground holds absolutely no weight. I sure hope that Canadian negotiators do not take this cavalier, irresponsible attitude.

It's not irresponsible or cavalier, it's strategic.

It works both ways. No doubt Canada has presented a perfectly reasonable compromise. If Trump wants to meet his own deadline, all he has to do is accept it.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Wilber

[Boges]

If the US insist on having absolutely no way to do conflict resolution (Article 19) then there's no point in making a deal. It wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on. 

If Congress goes Blue in November, Trump won't be able to wield nearly as much bravado. And his tariffs are raising the prices of good of the people he claimed to care about. 

[taxme]

On 9/22/2018 at 11:37 AM, Centerpiece said:

It appears that the Trudeau government made a major strategic error in appointing Freeland as lead negotiator. Putting aside her lack of experience in trade negotiations, Freeland has recently found herself a somewhat willing participant in some anti-Trump situations - including a key foreign policy speech that she made in Washington. Adding fuel to the fire is the fact she is married to a New York Times investigative reporter - Graham Bowley. Trump hates the Times. With Trudeau shooting himself in the foot with his G7 shenanigans, Canada now has no one who can meet with Trump to have that final "save the day" and close the deal conversation - like Mulroney was able to do with Reagan.

 

Those two liberal idiots need to go. They are going to screw up everything with their shenanigans. If they think that Trump is going to bend over backwards and agree to their liberal version of wheeling and dealing they are in for a big kick in the ass. Trump is not fooling around. Trump is there for America and not for Canada's well being and interest. Canada is the mouse and America is the elephant in the room. If they decide to step on us we are squished. 

What is needed is for farmers on both sides of the border to do their own wheeling and dealing among themselves and not the government. And that goes for other industries also. Isn't that what trade is suppose to mean? A Canadian meeting an American and getting together to hash out a deal between themselves. Why is the government involved? Can someone explain this to me because I am not getting it. When people in business want to create more business for themselves in some other country they go to that country and look to make their own deals to sell their products. They do not use the government to speak for them.

Personally, I am still at a loss as to what the hell are they all talking about? I am not being informed on anything as to what is holding up this waste of taxpayer's tax dollars on both sides. Government can be such a waste of time, effort and money. Let the people in business do the trade deals. Sounds simple and easy to me. But then again, what do I know. As a Canadian I am suppose to just pay my taxes and just shut the hell up. 

Tax me, I am Canadian.    

[DogOnPorch]

She has a nice white tight dress though...

 

Edited September 23, 2018 by DogOnPorch

[taxme]

8 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

She has a nice white tight dress though...

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

I am still trying to figure out if she does look sexy or not in that white skirt of hers? Hopefully, something does not burst wide open on that skirt while she is negotiating. Yikes. Embarrassing. She sure looks like she has been packing a little too much on those thighs of hers though. Too much sitting down I guess. Maybe what she needs to do is get these phony negotiations over with and get back to Canada and start going to the gym. Just saying.  LOL. 

[Queenmandy85]

13 minutes ago, taxme said:

Tax me, I am Canadian

You say that like there is any other jusridiction where you don't pay taxes. Do you expect to get all government services for free?

[taxme]

24 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You say that like there is any other jusridiction where you don't pay taxes. Do you expect to get all government services for free?

I only expect and want to pay taxes for government services that are of benefit for Canada and Canadians, and not to the rest of the world. I do not get anything free from the government. Most taxes are nothing more than theft taxes. 

Do you like to see your tax dollars being given away by the hundreds of millions in foreign aid every year as one example too other countries? I see no need or reason why the taxpayers of Canada have to be forced to give to other countries their tax dollars to people they do not even know or really care about. I don't go around every day wondering as to how the people of the rest of the world are doing today, and I don't think that 99% of Canadians worry about it either.  That is none of my business and I really do not care. Works for me. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by taxme

[Wilber]

4 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

And you believe those trolls represent something important? That's not what the problem is. Let's not detract from valid criticism of the Liberal policy/ agenda, with bullshit accusations of mere sexism. 

See DOP and taxme posts above. Do they represent anything important? Not to me but who knows and there are plenty more out there.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Wilber

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

It is important to never walk away.

 

True for Canada, which is far more dependent on NAFTA.