hot enough Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 1 hour ago, capricorn said: Had Japan not come to its senses and surrendered, a third nuclear bomb would probably have been dropped on another one of its cities. War is hell. You really ought to try learning a wee bit of history before you post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Just now, hot enough said: Ignore this silly canard or you will die laughing. There are about 4.3 million Muslims in the USA. That means, if we follow this "the commies are coming" bit of Trumpian demagoguery, 4.3 million infidel Americans should be killed each day. How does a human brain believe such drivel? I agree that your Quran is drivel...however, Allah orders Muslims to fight the Unbeliever until all religion is for Allah. All it takes is a small percentage of your cult taking this order to heart to ruin one's day. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, hot enough said: You really ought to try learning a wee bit of history before you post. Seven atomic devices were planned for tactical use during Operation Downfall/Cornet/Olympic. Edited March 23, 2017 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 11 hours ago, hernanday said: The thing I don't understand is how come all of Islam gets blamed when a muslim does a crime, but all white people, or all christians don't get blamed when white christians like o, dillan roof commit a crime. Seems like a double standard to me. Also, isn't it the claim of the UK there is a war on terror? And further the UK leader dubs herself the commander and chief. So technically this wouldn't be a terror attack because terror attacks are aimed and targetted towards civilians. This is actually simply an asymmetrical military style assault or suicide mission. It is obvious the British government was the target of the attack. This does kind of make sense given the recent assault on the al qaeda in yemen where a soldier died and attacks on ISIS and all that. Now some might say but they didn't hit the government so it is terrorism! But how many times has the uk and usa bombed and missed the terrorist target for various reasons (ie blowing up weddings)? Does that make USA and UK terrorist or terror attacks? of course not, people need to dial down their terrorism hysteria. If you live in a country who grouped a nation as terrorist, then said we are at war with them, you got to accept they are going to strike every now and then. After all, wars are never one sided, the other side always fights back. Otherwise its not a war, its a surrender. While the terrorist had a minor victory today, I believer freedom wil win in the end, when we completely withdraw from the arab world, all soldiers and support of corrupt governments. How come when someone shoots and kills another person all gun owners get to be lumped in with those killers? Why are people always the target of these terrorists, and never politicians? It is the politicians that always create the problems, not the people who always end up taking the bullet. Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mailman Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 The UK Muslim Council has condemned the attack in their press release. Day of: http://www.mcb.org.uk/westminster-attack/ Day after: http://www.mcb.org.uk/westminster-attack-call-for-solidarity-and-prayer/ Neo-nazis, come out and play! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 24 minutes ago, hot enough said: You really ought to try learning a wee bit of history before you post. This, from a poster who twists history to suit his one trick agenda. Quote Plans for more atomic attacks on Japan Groves expected to have another atomic bomb ready for use on August 19, with three more in September and a further three in October. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#Plans_for_more_atomic_attacks_on_Japan Your history lesson for today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) The peculiar thing about the London terrorist attack is the media are still talking as if they don't know the motive. The CBC is great at obfuscation of the cause. In this case the terrorist had a record of some crime but was not on the immediate radar. This is similar to other attacks where the terrorist has had run-ins with the law and sometimes a criminal record. Some commentators have said the lone wolf attacker sometimes is a deeply troubled individual who has become radicalized. He adopts the belief that his only salvation so-to-speak from his miserable life is to commit an act of terrorism and die in the process. He believes (wrongly) that this will appease Allah and take him to heaven where he will receive 72 virgins. The question is how does society counter this false belief? I believe the best anti-dote to this false belief is the bible. But if you are not a christian, you would not believe the bible. The Bible counters it because it proves itself as being God's inspired word and therefore is the only ground and source for truth. The many miracles in the bible are just one of the proofs it is from God. One example is the miraculous deliverance of Israel from captivity in Egypt and the various miracles recorded in the bible as associated with that deliverance. Edited March 23, 2017 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, blackbird said: In this case the terrorist had a record of some crime but was not on the immediate radar. He was at one time but the UK intelligence community halted their surveillance. Quote “There is going to be a big investigation on this. It is always a worry for the intelligence and security services, when it comes to dropping cases, but they can’t follow them all up. “At the end of the day they have to take a decision on each one, and they will now want a proper investigation of who knew what and when.” http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/london-attack-khalid-masood-investigation-security-services-intelligence-watchdog-a7646946.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 20 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: That's how I feel. If anything, "bad" is such a reductive binary term. So if my religion calls for me to sacrifice virgins by bending them over an alter and tearing out their heart and eating it, that's... not bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 24 minutes ago, blackbird said: The peculiar thing about the London terrorist attack is the media are still talking as if they don't know the motive. Progressives can't see an action like this, see a bearded Muslim, and conclude the obvious. They'd have to turn in their progressive cards. They'll be anxiously awaiting some indication that he was mentally ill or something. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 16 hours ago, marcus said: How was invading Iraq, "fighting terrorism"? How is selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, the countries that fund ISIS and Al Qaeda, "fighting terrorism"? How was attacking Libya, "fighting terrorism" This guy was born in the UK. What does that have to do with him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, marcus said: Why are some people wanting this to be so much about 'religion' and not just accept the simple fact that we have been, for so long, been fucking with people around the world and now we're experiencing the consequences? A guy gets in a car and drives through people. Then gets out and starts stabbing. This sounds like a guy who has lost the plot, most likely created by rage. Where is this rage coming from? Is it because Muslims have this unique rage and thirst for revenge? People who subscribe to other religions do not have this rage? Need I remind you once again this was a British man? Are you saying that Muslims are NOT British? That even if they're born and raised in the UK they're actually sort of resident foreigners who are actually more loyal to and emotionally a part of some other nation or people? Because if that's the suggestion then shouldn't they all be expelled? Edited March 23, 2017 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 3 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: Islam is captain of its own ship...you can appreciate that... I have no influence over the cult. Nope, you're the captive that's under its influence. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, kactus said: I opened this thread in the good faith that there will be some thought provoking discussions and support for the victims of this tragedy. Instead it turns into another debacle for certain people venting anger against a whole religion. Whilst the UK government is still investigating this case all the western governments have the responsibility in understanding the root cause of these home grown terrorists and put a stop to it. Whether it is committed by a white christian supremacist or a fanatical Muslim.... The root cause, it seems to me, is an insidious, intolerant, vicious strain of Islam which was invented by the Saud family, and is growing around the world as they pump billions of dollars into proselytizing. It is this strain which inspires ISIS, Al Quaeda, Boko Harma, and almost certainly this individual. Edited March 23, 2017 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 13 minutes ago, Argus said: So if my religion calls for me to sacrifice virgins by bending them over an alter and tearing out their heart and eating it, that's... not bad? What is your religion called ? Look... don't put me into semantic traps... yes your religion is bad of course it is. I'm not going to engage with you in a 35-point pivot where you try to convince me that the Quran (but NOT the old testament) is the same religion yadda yadda. You're building a tower of babylon and we've tried this before. The main issue with the people that are being condemned (all 1.5 billion) is that some people don't like them and that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: What is your religion called ? Look... don't put me into semantic traps... yes your religion is bad of course it is. I'm not going to engage with you in a 35-point pivot where you try to convince me that the Quran (but NOT the old testament) is the same religion yadda yadda. You're building a tower of babylon and we've tried this before. The main issue with the people that are being condemned (all 1.5 billion) is that some people don't like them and that's it. People don't like their beliefs, not THEM. There is some nasty stuff in the Old testament, and nasty stuff in the Quran. But virtually no one believes we should follow the Old Testiment literally. There aren't scads of preachers and priests and chaplains out there thumping their bibles and screaming at their people about how non Christians must be killed so that Christianity can rule the world, or that anyone who is disrespectful of Jesus or the Bible needs to die. There are a few tiny sects which are pretty rigid and oppressive, but are held in line by the vast majority. The tiny nasty sect in Islam, unfortunately, is that espoused by the Saud family with their endless billions in oil wealth and the influence of being the protectors of Mecca. It not only believes every literal nasty word but believes everyone everywhere should live by the morals and values of those nasty little words, or die. Now the Sauds are held in check by the fact they don't have anything like the military ability to do any of that. But individuals listening to the fiery sermons of imams and mullahs, and promised an afterlife with lots of virgins sitting next to God, are not held in check so easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: The main issue with the people that are being condemned (all 1.5 billion) is that some people don't like them and that's it. There's also the issue of trust. The fact that Muslim extremists can be so hypocritical as to live among us, sometimes are born among us, then they turn and kill our citizens in the most horrific ways. It's not easy to build trust. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Folks - no insults allowed here. Some posts were hidden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 19 minutes ago, capricorn said: There's also the issue of trust. The fact that Muslim extremists can be so hypocritical as to live among us, sometimes are born among us, then they turn and kill our citizens in the most horrific ways. It's not easy to build trust. If hypocrisy is what gets your goat the fact the shiniest beacons on the planet for democracy, justice, liberty and freedom also embrace tyrants should do the trick. I find its just about impossible to give a damn about anyone who would apologize for or defend that or get pissed off when that grotesque contradiction is rubbed in their faces. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 28 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: I'm not going to engage with you in a 35-point pivot where you try to convince me that the Quran (but NOT the old testament) is the same religion yadda yadda. You're building a tower of babylon and we've tried this before. The main issue with the people that are being condemned (all 1.5 billion) is that some people don't like them and that's it. The Old Testament has some verses which describe some violent historical things that happened several thousand years ago. But if you understand the context it is strictly a historical record, not an instruction for how anyone is to act today. The Quran on the other hand has over 109 verses which exhort followers to violence and the context in most cases could lead one to believe it is instruction for followers today. The interpretation of the verses is left to individual preferences as context in many cases is non-existent. The difference between the Old Testament and the Quran in this respect is the context in which such verses are written. Many people try to undermine the Old Testament by pulling verses out and claiming they prove that they teach violence. This is completely incorrect. It's context that matters. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, blackbird said: The Old Testament has some verses which describe some violent historical things that happened several thousand years ago. But if you understand the context it is strictly a historical record, not an instruction for how anyone is to act today. The Quran on the other hand has over 109 verses which exhort followers to violence and the context in most cases could lead one to believe it is instruction for followers today. The interpretation of the verses is left to individual preferences as context in many cases is non-existent. The difference between the Old Testament and the Quran in this respect is the context in which such verses are written. Many people try to undermine the Old Testament by pulling verses out and claiming they prove that they teach violence. This is completely incorrect. It's context that matters. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx May I support you for a change. I happen to agree with you that both Judaism and Christianity, for the most part, have evolved to a point of critical thinking where I would hope we do not literally take every word of the Bible verbatum and use it as a moral guide and historical record. I do think there remain very fundamentalist Christians and Jews, often referred to as "Orthodox" but what is the likelihood of them being terrorist today? You just don't see Amish, or Orthodox Hasidic Jews attacking people on terror cells. . Evangelical clergy still exist full of fire and piss and vinegar against Jews, Catholics, etc., but for the most part we Jews and Christians have found peace and in modern democracies Christian leaders whether it be the Pope, Queen of England, etc., embrace in inter-religious faith services and cooperation. We can't say that about mainstream Islam at this point. Unfortunately its stlll not at the stage where people have developed critical skills to question its clergy. That is because 80% of Muslims remain unable to read and therefore are dependent on Imams. Those Imams are not subject to one central, uniform education system. Imams are often self-educated. Unfortunately Islam is where Christianity was 500 years ago if not further back. Its full of feuding sects that hate each other as much as they do non Muslims and the Koran is still very much used as a weapon. That said the reformist movement in Islam, the peaceful moderates who are emerging no different than with Christians and before them Jews are coming. We need to find a way to reach out to them and make alliances. To me the greatest weapon against terrorism is getting moderate Muslims out to meet with Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc., and practice inter-faith tolerance. Until we do that, this terrorism and the use of the Koran to promulgate it will continue. Humans tend to take their faiths and turn them into reasons to act like the apes we are bashing each other over the head with sticks. Its a travesty we don't use these books as codes to find peace but instead use them as weapons to justify war. I am sorry but I am not an Islamophobe for saying to Michael Hard. that the terrorism we are seeing is done by people in the name of Islam over and over. It doesn't give me the right to blame or hate all Muslims no, but its stupid to say its not a problem that requires we call it what it is MUSLIM EXTREMISM. Edited March 23, 2017 by Rue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Jones Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said: Well, if 35 out of 36 numbers on a roulette table were black, wouldn't you bet on black? I wouldn't blame Muslims. We have over 1 million Muslims in Canada and over 3 million in the UK. If Muslims were crazy terrorists, we would all be dead by now. I blame mentally ill, unstable people with psychopath tendencies for being okay with killing innocent people. Same with the guy today, who drove into people and started stabbing them, and the Mosque killer in Quebec, the Orlando shooter, the Charleston, North Carolina shooter. I don't blame Muslims. Because that's just stupid. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Jones Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, Rue said: That is because 80% of Muslims remain unable to read and therefore are dependent on Imams. Can you show how you came across this information? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Hudson Jones said: I wouldn't blame Muslims. We have over 1 million Muslims in Canada and over 3 million in the UK. If Muslims were crazy terrorists, we would all be dead by now. I blame mentally ill, unstable people with psychopath tendencies for being okay with killing innocent people. Same with the guy today, who drove into people and started stabbing them, and the Mosque killer in Quebec, the Orlando shooter, the Charleston, North Carolina shooter. I don't blame Muslims. Because that's just stupid. I would argue you refuse to see a connection between Islam and terrorism and justify that blindness by ysing the above argument. Saying there is a connection between Islam and terrorism which you refuse to do, does not mean one blames all Muslims for being bad people. In fact Michael Hard. has in his own way made that point to me. I don't mistake him saying to me I can never draw a conection between Islam and terrorism. I get that from your words. I don't think negatively assigning all Muslims blame for terrorists within their community is fair or logical and in fact it probably is what Muslim terrorists want but it is important we denounce the Muslim extremist ideology behind this terrorism. Not all 3 million Muslims in Britain are terrorists but there is far higher a likelihood a terrorist today is calling themselves a Muslim and comes from a Muslim community. That is not an excuse to hate Muslims but it is a fact we can't ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Islam is to blame. It orders its 'soldiers' to do this to the Infidel. It doesn't matter re: all Muslims don't do this or don't do that. That's a red herring. Some Muslims do exactly as ordered. No telling which will act on these orders. And it's more than just a few 'bad apples'. YOU wouldn't allow anything with the same risk factor ANYWHERE near you or your family. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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