Suspected terrorist attack in London 4 dead including the attacker

[Michael Hardner]

20 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Islam's track record is apparent.  

 

Only if you have already made up your mind as to the 'cause'.   If your phobias were reality, then we would already all be dead.  Instead, this is just the same dislike of outside peoples that has existed forever.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

Only if you have already made up your mind as to the 'cause'.   If your phobias were reality, then we would already all be dead.  Instead, this is just the same dislike of outside peoples that has existed forever.

Sorry...history disagrees with you.

 

[kactus]

3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Sorry...history disagrees with you.

 

It's a little ironic you talk about history and talk about things you have no clue about.

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Sorry...history disagrees with you.

 

Any attempt to apply objective rules that implicate Islam as the cause of violence fails.  Therefore Islam can't be shown to be the cause.

For all of the complaints about people being called racist for airing their views, there hasn't been a solid proof made that this religion causes anything.  

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

Any attempt to apply objective rules that implicate Islam as the cause of violence fails.  Therefore Islam can't be shown to be the cause.

For all of the complaints about people being called racist for airing their views, there hasn't been a solid proof made that this religion causes anything.  

 

Islam, from the start, was spread by the sword. It was sort of like the guy on the beach getting sand kicked on him...it's about revenge and sticking it to the unbeliever.

It's basic history starting with Mohammad and carried on by his Companions. Your denying it doesn't make it disappear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

 

Islam, from the start, was spread by the sword.  

This is where I come back with descriptions of other religions, then you add a qualification to your reasoning.  In the end, these discussions don't go anywhere because you're essentially building a logical proof to rationalize people you don't like under any conditions.

As I said, we've seen this tact used before and it doesn't fly.

[DogOnPorch]

No arguing with a fellow who rejects history.

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

No arguing with a fellow who rejects history.

Using history to prove an entire religion is bad.... was done in history.  Proven wrong too.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

Using history to prove an entire religion is bad.... was done in history.  Proven wrong too.

Islam and the Nazis had common ground....turned out.

[DogOnPorch]

This would be the first time I recall Abu Izzadeen going viral.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxA4lmxjIbk

Like Andy C...a real sweetheart.

[Argus]

27 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Using history to prove an entire religion is bad.... was done in history.  Proven wrong too.

Does that mean no religion is bad?

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Argus said:

Does that mean no religion is bad?

That's how I feel.  If anything, "bad" is such a reductive binary term.   

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

Does that mean no religion is bad?

 

I think he's taking it on faith that all religions are ultimately good and peaceful.

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's how I feel.  If anything, "bad" is such a reductive binary term.   

...and there it is.

[DogOnPorch]

Now BBC claims Abu Izzadeen is in jail and can't possibly be the Jihadi...

Getting juicy.

[Michael Hardner]

Please don't make personal comments on here, thanks.  It's ok to criticize someone's argument or logic but try to be civil.  Thanks.

[Hal 9000]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Any attempt to apply objective rules that implicate Islam as the cause of violence fails.  Therefore Islam can't be shown to be the cause.

For all of the complaints about people being called racist for airing their views, there hasn't been a solid proof made that this religion causes anything.  

Do you really not see any pattern to these terrorist attacks...really?

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

Do you really not see any pattern to these terrorist attacks...really?

One would have to be an idiot to deny Islamic terrorism isn't behind it.  Of course, the groups goals are to divide people along religious lines so you'd also have to be an idiot to fall for their plan, while detesting the group themselves.  Wouldn't you ?

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

One would have to be an idiot to deny Islamic terrorism isn't behind it.  Of course, the groups goals are to divide people along religious lines so you'd also have to be an idiot to fall for their plan, while detesting the group themselves.  Wouldn't you ?

 

Of course, this would all hinge on all this fuss being caused by a few 'bad apples'.

AKA: the Bad Apple Defence.

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Of course, this would all hinge on all this fuss being caused by a few 'bad apples'.

I've never heard such a defence.  If a group is involved in crimes, tell me what makes you select certain group characteristics over another ?  When do you decide that religion, or race for that matter is actually a cause ?  Or just a cofactor ?  I'm asking sincerely.

[-1=e^ipi]

3 hours ago, Hudson Jones said:

Are you saying that the white nationalist boy in Quebec that has confessed to the killings is a made up story

He confessed. But we still don't really know the motive.

[blackbird]

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

 

 

3 minutes ago, -1=e^ipi said:

He confessed. But we still don't really know the motive.

Wasn't he influenced by some extremist group(s)?

Edited March 23, 2017 by blackbird

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Wasn't he influenced by some extremist group(s)?

Yes, and not all racists are murderers...

[-1=e^ipi]

Just now, blackbird said:

Wasn't he influenced by some extremist group(s)?

Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. We don't know, it's all speculation. It's not like the Ander's Breivik or Dylan Roof killings where the motives were very clear. Now if the killer were to release a manifesto, confession or statement explaining the reasoning and motivation, we would probably be able to make more definitive conclusions.

[blackbird]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

Yes, and not all racists are murderers...

True.

[Hal 9000]

59 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

One would have to be an idiot to deny Islamic terrorism isn't behind it.  Of course, the groups goals are to divide people along religious lines so you'd also have to be an idiot to fall for their plan, while detesting the group themselves.  Wouldn't you ?

I used to be one of you "don't fall for their plan" types, but after watching this for years, I've changed quite a bit.  If we react or change our lifestyle, they win...right?  How do we win?  When do we win?  Well, our lives have changed dramatically since 9/11, and I don't see the west as "winning" anything.  4 innocent people are dead, 4 families dealing with a dead family member and another 40 will have their lives drastically altered - so, is this what you'd call a win for England.