America under President Trump

[Rue]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

No it wasn't an abuse of power.  The money was released, without any conditions.  No, Trump didn't bribe anyone.  You really need to stop listening and/or reading leftwing blogs.  

Get with the defense. His legal team is no longer denying he abused his power, they are now arguing its o.k. for him to abuse his powers because that is not a crime. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/experts-question-trump-claim-abuse-of-power-non-impeachable-2020-1

[bush_cheney2004]

6 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Getting dirt on the Bidens is one thing.  Attaching it as a condition for 100’s of millions of dollars in military aid is criminal, worse than bugging a hotel (Watergate), and we know how that ended for Nixon.  If Republicans look the other way, they are placing Trump above the law and setting the conditions for dictatorship.  

 

Not criminal....not worse than previous presidents....not impeachable.

There is no dictatorship if elected Senators acquit per constitution.

Emotional hate for Trump does not equal political reality.

[Shady]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

Get with the defense. His legal team is no longer denying he abused his power, they are now arguing its o.k. for him to abuse his powers because that is not a crime. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/experts-question-trump-claim-abuse-of-power-non-impeachable-2020-1

They don’t really need to worry about that because there was no abuse of power.  Funds were released without any conditions.

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Not criminal....not worse than previous presidents....not impeachable.

There is no dictatorship if elected Senators acquit per constitution.

Emotional hate for Trump does not equal political reality.

You’re just saying political reality is that justice can be overturned by money and partisan representation.  I agree.  Case in point...

[taxme]

On 1/3/2020 at 2:56 PM, Argus said:

The Republicans did not ask to call any witnesses with any relevant testimony to the indictment and refused to allow many people who did testify.

 

Hello!! It would not have made a bloody difference if they did anyway. The fake and phony impeachment trial and charges must go on come hell or high water. Hello!! 

[taxme]

3 hours ago, Rue said:

Get with the defense. His legal team is no longer denying he abused his power, they are now arguing its o.k. for him to abuse his powers because that is not a crime. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/experts-question-trump-claim-abuse-of-power-non-impeachable-2020-1

You really should ask the millions of Trump supporters if they really give a dam about this fake and phony impeachment trial. Just the other day in New Jersey there were over 100,000 Trump supporters trying to get in to an arena where Trump was to give a rally speech. The only fools that give a dam about this impeachment bull chit are just liberal/democrats and their foolish and stunned supporters who probably could not tell the difference between a hammer and a screwdriver. Just saying. 

If anyone abused their power it was crooked Obama, liar Hillary, and Quid Pro Quo Biden. Why are not these three wearing orange suits yet? The three are guilty as hell. Bloody amazing indeed. I guess that the deep state is a lot deeper than what we ever thought. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re just saying political reality is that justice can be overturned by money and partisan representation.  I agree.  Case in point...

 

Again, impeachment and removal of a U.S. president is purely a political process...not criminal prosecution.

Has nothing to do with "justice".

[DogOnPorch]

15 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Again, impeachment and removal of a U.S. president is purely a political process...not criminal prosecution.

Has nothing to do with "justice".

 

Indeed...otherwise partisan bodies would be throwing folks in jails all over the place without due process.

Like in Red China.

[Rue]

10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Again, impeachment and removal of a U.S. president is purely a political process...not criminal prosecution.

Has nothing to do with "justice".

Of course it has something to do with justice. The impeachment process is a system designed to replace a conventional criminal prosecution to hold a President accountable when they are engaged in criminal behaviour to prevent injustice.  Lol you do though nicely summarize how you Trump cultees have NO standards of justice for how Trump behaves.

[Rue]

10 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Indeed...otherwise partisan bodies would be throwing folks in jails all over the place without due process.

Like in Red China.

Really, Donald is a victim of political persecution by the state? That's your analogy? Now the House of Representatives are a Communist Party? 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Rue said:

Of course it has something to do with justice. The impeachment process is a system designed to replace a conventional criminal prosecution to hold a President accountable when they are engaged in criminal behaviour to prevent injustice.  Lol you do though nicely summarize how you Trump cultees have NO standards of justice for how Trump behaves.

 

Nonsense...President Clinton actually committed a federal crime and was still not convicted by the Senate.

Your sense of "justice" is very partisan.

[Rue]

13 hours ago, Shady said:

They don’t really need to worry about that because there was no abuse of power.  Funds were released without any conditions.

Trump's statements to the public let alone to hjs staff made it clear what the conditions were.  That is why the legal defense had to be changed to not whether he acted in a conflicted manner but that he can act in a conflicted manner. Your repeating the above mantra does not even remotely match the defense arguments of his lawyers.

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Rue

[Rue]

14 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

 

There is no dictatorship if elected Senators acquit per constitution.

 

That is an illogical statement and just plain silly. Dictators have puppet assemblies. Are you trying to tell me Putin, Kim Jog Un are not dictators because their legislative assemblies clap in unison? Really? You Trump cultees live in la la land.  Now please remember it was Shady not I who brought up the argument that if Trump can not do whatever he wants he is a victim of his state government not I, but now that he has suggested he has a rogue communist party on his hands in the House of Representatives not to worry, these Repubican Senators have it all under control:

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Rue said:

That is an illogical statement and just plain silly. Dictators have puppet assemblies. Are you trying to tell me Putin, Kim Jog Un are not dictators because their legislative assemblies clap in unison? Really? You Trump cultees live in la la land. 

 

More nonsense...Trump has not been able to do whatever he wants, being stopped by Congress and the courts many times.

Were previously acquitted presidents also "dictators" ?

Either way...keep watching the fun...that's why America is here !

[Rue]

42 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

More nonsense...Trump has not been able to do whatever he wants, being stopped by Congress and the courts many times.

Were previously acquitted presidents also "dictators" ?

Either way...keep watching the fun...that's why America is here !

They would have been and could have been if the elected members chose to look the other way. That is the point. The Senate not just the House of Representatives have a Constitutional obligation to safeguard the democratic process by holding the President accountable for his behaviour. If these elected assemblies abandon the role then yes there necessarily is a dictator, i.e., a person in power with no checks and balances to assure he does not abuse his powers.

The legal argument of Trump's lawyers is "privilege" allows him unlimited powers. This means its even more crucial the Senate and House of Representatives understand their role must be to act as a counter weight to absolute power otherwise the US has the very kind of King its started a country to get away from. You fail to see the irony in your argument of wanting to have a King with a rubber stamp assembly. Me I see very little difference between King George and King Donald...both mad dictators. Perhaps we could also use another analogy and liken Congressman Shiff to  Cromwell. Think of him as a puritan fed up with a corrupt despot. Off with Donald's head.Viva la revolution.  You Yanks are in need of your own versions of Volitaires and Robespierre

Come on. The spectacle of seeing Senators who have a constitutional obligation to conduct an impeachment  trial refusing to do so is a sad day for America. They put their own partisan interests before the democratic safeguard process defined by the constitution to uphold and  they were entrusted to pursue and for that-I hope these Senators who helped obstruct justice and prevent the impeachment process are held accountable by US voters. I won't hold my breath.

As for your last sentence we both know Teflon Don is gonna keep walkin and talkin. I don;t see any Archangel Michael prepared to slew this Satan...although it does appear Mitt Romney would love to take on that role. As for Pence and his strategic photo-ops just in case Donny does choke on a piece of KFC is precious. Those Pope photos showing him as the statesman on standby were hilarious.

you voted  in that chump

y'all call  Donald Trump

and to compound that nonsense

had Donny bring in  Mike Pence

now is it just me

or when you look carefully

at Donald or Mike

either looks just like a Bull Dyke

illuminati women to men

a Satanic omen

so may I suggest

you   really consider Kayne West

that should be your next election plan

bring in  First Lady Kim Kardashian

and for  the Secretary of State surely we can concur

we will appoint Bruce Kaitlyn Jenner

 

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Rue

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, Rue said:

 The spectacle of seeing Senators who have a constitutional obligation to conduct a trial refusing to do so is a sad day for America. They put their own partisan interests before the democratic process they were entrusted to pursue and for that-I hope these Senators who helped obstruct justice and prevent the impeachment process are held accountable by US voters. I won't hold my breath.

 

How many times do you have to be reminded that impeachment and trial is a partisan, political process by definition.

The House and Senate are elected by US voters too.

You just can't get past the reality that Trump will not be convicted.....he laughs at you again !

 

Quote

As for your last sentence, big smile. p.s., who has stopped teflon Don from doing what he does...lol. No one.

 

Donald Trump is President of the United States...just like all those who came before...with power and limits.

Get over it....

Edited January 31, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[Yzermandius19]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

Really, Donald is a victim of political persecution by the state? That's your analogy? Now the House of Representatives are a Communist Party? 

 

The House Democrats are indeed acting like Communists.

[DogOnPorch]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

Really, Donald is a victim of political persecution by the state? That's your analogy? Now the House of Representatives are a Communist Party? 

 

 

Even you're doing the Communist style "guilty until proven innocent...then we'll review."

Trump is your Goldstein...Two Minutes everyday you can yell at him.

[Yzermandius19]

The Trump Haters are Wile E Coyote and Donald Trump is The Roadrunner.

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Hal 9000]

21 hours ago, Boges said:

His actions in Ukraine were an abuse of power that encompassed several crimes. 

Bribery is in the constitution as an impeachable offence and that's pretty much what Trump did. 

I cited 5 crimes that are related to Trump's abuse of power in Ukraine. The Article of imepachment is abuse of power. 

Those hundreds of lawyers in the democratic party and those they hired to find a crime really should've consulted with you on this one, because they couldn't find any actual crime. 

[Rue]

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

How many times do you have to be reminded that impeachment and trial is a partisan, political process by definition.

 

 

 

 

What is it with people in cults and their need to utter their mantras over and over again. Hari Krishna Krishna Krishna to you BC. You can repeat that mantra to try block out the world all you want but it won't go away. Your comment above is misleading. The fact that the impeachment trial is carried out by US Senators who are by nature partisan does not mean they have no obligation to carry out their duties during an impeachment trial in an IMPARTIAL MANNER. Please start with your own Supreme Court of the US  in the case of  United States v. Rumely, 345 U.S. 41, 43 (1953),. which stated:

"It is the proper duty of a representative body to look diligently into every affair of government and to talk much about what it sees. It is meant to be the eyes and the voice, and to embody the wisdom and will of its constituents. Unless Congress have and use every means of acquainting itself with the acts and the disposition of the administrative agents of the government, the country must be helpless to learn how it is being served; and unless Congress both scrutinize these things and sift them by every form of discussion, the country must remain in embarrassing, crippling ignorance of the very affairs which it is most important that it should understand and direct. The informing function of Congress should be preferred even to its legislative function."

Now also try to remember ( keeping in mind you and your Trump cult do not give a damn about what any court of laws) at the beginning of the impeachment trial of Donald Trump in the Senate, as you are well aware, the Senators (100 of them)  took an oath and swore before Chief Justice John Roberts that, and I quote: " in all things appertaining to the trial of the impeachment of Donald John Trump, president of the United States, now pending, I will do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws, so help me God."

I appreciate in your cult world, you try  block out the external world and pretend it does not exist but its time you cultees get a grip.

The  fact is BEFORE the impeachment trial  back in December, Senator Majority leader Mitch McCnonell bragged the following and I quote:  "I'm not an impartial juror. This is a political process. There's not anything judicial about it," and then repeated: " I would anticipate we will have a largely partisan outcome in the Senate. I'm not impartial about this at all." source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/01/16/impeachment-senators-pledge-impartial-justice-trump-trial/4488539002/.

This is why people in the US who don't exist in your world may find the above conduct outrageous. They consider  what McConell  and Republican Senators are doing doing is an abdication of their constitutionally required duties and this is precisely why the non partisan lobby group Public Citizen's Congress watch, filed a public complaint and its representative Graih Holman stated: "Holding a kangaroo court not only mocks the institution of the Senate but it also does no favors for Trump." https://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2020/01/13/ethics-complaint-alleges-mcconnell-may-have-violated-rules-senate-impartiality

I love it. You Trump cultists in one breath call the House of Representative Red Chinese and communists but then on the other have no problem with Senators violating their oath and subverting their constitutional requirement to be impartial and act like clapping monkeys for their glorious leader.  You see nothing unethical in that. Your entire argument comes down to,.....people can be unethical, abusive, act in a clear and open conflicted manner because of partisanship and once someone is elected as President, they can do what ever they want. In your fantasy cult worship of Trump you see no possibility A President can violate the law, act in a conflicted manner, act in an unethical manner, circumvent the role of his own investigative agencies, order foreign countries to investigate his political opponents and violate the  most and basic fundamental principles of democracy, that we must separating elected officials from influencing their civil service for partisan purposes., in your world  the term "justice"  does not mean to act in an open, transparent, accountable, reasonable and fair manner, it simply means, what courts do....the same courts whose directions on what the impeachment process requires you won't acknowledge.

It is quite conceivable the above and other lobby groups will after this fiasco is completed  join the above group and challenge what has happened.

You have a  majority leader bragging  two months before the impeachment process he would violate his oath and prevent the process from being impartial...

...but hey in your world this is fine... in your world the Senate is a puppet chamber to do Trump's bidding....and hey to  you cult followers that is not communism, that is not totalitarianism, that's not a dictator protected by a puppet chamber, that's democracy and anyone who questions the Glorius Leader King Donald The First, Glorius Beloved Most Exalted Unquestioned Commander of the Nation of Budwaiser Beer is a communist. Lol.

Well as the song goes...look at all the monkeys sitting in a row

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Rue

[Yzermandius19]

If impeachment is purely partisan, it is designed to be blocked, hence it requiring a two thirds senate majority to remove a President from office. The Democrats thinking he should be removed is not grounds for removal, if they can't get a bunch of Republicans on board, it is dead in the water for a reason.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Rue]

2 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

Those hundreds of lawyers in the democratic party and those they hired to find a crime really should've consulted with you on this one, because they couldn't find any actual crime. 

You can try engage in a semantic argument about what whether what Trump did was a crime or not, but the issue remains, whether his actions constituted acts creating the grounds for impeachment and in that regard the House of Reps most certainly provided evidence for those acts. It doesn't matter what you want to call what he did, what matters is whether it is impeachable in the Senate and we will never truly know because Mitch McConnell bragged two months before the proceeding he would make sure he and his fellow Republicans would violate their oath to be impartial and engage in partiality to prevent any impartial consideration of evidence let alone the admission of evidence and witnesses and that they have done. They have made a travesty of a process which my nature was supposed to be impartial. If anything this shows that the US elects leaders who have contempt for fair processes of determination.

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Rue

[Rue]

22 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

If impeachment is purely partisan, it is designed to be blocked, hence it requiring a two thirds senate majority to remove a President from office. The Democrats thinking he should be removed is not grounds for removal, if they can't get a bunch of Republicans on board, it is dead in the water for a reason.

The current impeachment process allows a partisan vote to prevail yes. That doesn't mean automatically because of this feature, Senators should be impartial and not properly assess and  review all relevant witnesses and evidence. In fact the oath Senators take swearing to be impartial at an impeachment trial contemplates they do not simply act blindly in an impartial manner.

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Rue

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, Rue said:

The current impeachment process allows a partisan vote to prevail yes. That doesn't mean automatically because of this feature Senators should be impartial and not properly assess and  review all relevant witnesses and evidence. In fact the oath Senators take swearing to be impartial at an impeachment trial contemplates they do not simply act blindly in an impartial manner.

The evidence has been assessed and found wanting, Democrats claiming that coming to that conclusion is inherently partisan, when their attempt to impeach on that evidence was vastly more partisan is comical.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Yzermandius19