Islamophobia in Canada

[Army Guy]

As I have stayed in the past, Canadians don't give two f*** about what happens in the north or anywhere else.

I give a F****, but then again who am i, and while you may have a point, up north and being homeless, may not be the flavour of the week, but there are more Canadian issues than those two, pick one......i know i could think of lots of ways to spend 1.25 bil....a year on this issue.....we can't just turn the lights out after a year......Yes thats right Canada spends approx 23 bil a year on immigration and refugees.....

Edited November 27, 2015 by Michael Hardner
language

[WestCoastRunner]

I give a F****, but then again who am i, and while you may have a point, up north and being homeless, may not be the flavour of the week, but there are more Canadian issues than those two, pick one......i know i could think of lots of ways to spend 1.25 bil....a year on this issue.....we can't just turn the lights out after a year......Yes thats right Canada spends approx 23 bil a year on immigration and refugees.....

.

You haven't indicated to me why we should deny Syrian refugees a helping hand?

Edited November 27, 2015 by WestCoastRunner

[Darkling]

.You haven't indicated to me why we should deny Syrian refugees a helping hand?

You want to help them. You do it. Leave me out of it.

[Army Guy]

.

You haven't indicated to me why we should deny Syrian refugees a helping hand?

I've given you a few you have just ignored them....so far the european adventure has been one serious cluster f***.....That much is a fact, you can't beat your head up again'st the wall and expect a different result each time.....Do you think that Canada's plan is going to work or produce any different results....if so please share, what is Canada going to do that is different ?

The many nations within europe are having serious issues, such as finding them adequate basic services such as housing, employment, food, there are other issues such as security, criminal behavior, struggles with the differences in culture, different moral values and religious values of what is right or wrong in western countries.....While they might not concern you, they are very big concerns for me.....like i said watch some of the videos coming out of europe.....there is enough to get both sides of the story.....as both sides are producing them.....

Why should we be helping others when our own back yard is full of things to do.....Canadians who are in the same need for help, but instead we look the other way, and to mask all that guilt we pick something like helping Syrian refugees.....to distract us from looking at the facts....Canadian born and breed here are in need, and we choose to ignore that fact....And some how i'm the racist, scared of the big bad muslim.....

Edited November 27, 2015 by Michael Hardner
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[marcus]

Marcus you can't compare western views on paedophilia with those of some of the arabic nations.

Think for a second. You're posting a news piece about Afghanistan. Afghanistan is not Arabic (sic). Afghanistan does not represent Islam or 1.6 billion Muslims. It's a cultural issue with some of the tribes there which you can also see in Pakistan.

You can also see pedophilia in the Catholic church, widespread, practiced and covered up by the church. But no one says it's a christian problem.

This is kind of like Female Genital Mutilation (FGM). You can see it being practiced by Muslims, Christians and Jews.

[marcus]

i know i could think of lots of ways to spend 1.25 bil.

Didn't you support the purchase of planes that don't work for billions of dollars?

Your precious heart makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

[marcus]

• http://www.soundvision.com/article/profile-of-muslims-in-canada

Interesting link. Thanks.

A little from his link to add a little reality into the discussion and view of Muslims:

DIVERSITY WITHIN

The Muslim population consists of diverse visible minorities, where

• 37% is of South Asian decent,
• 21% of Arab decent,
• 14% is of West Indian decent, and the remaining
• 28% is made up of many other ethnicities such African, Chinese, etc.

Here is another interesting one:

• Canadian Muslims have excelled in acquiring a Master's degree with slightly over 6% when compared with the three largest religious sects such as: Roman Catholics where only 2% hold a Master's degree, 3.5% of individuals who stated they have no religion and the third largest religious sect in Canada being the United Church has 2.4% of it?s population holding a Master's degree, however; 8.8% of the Jewish population in Canada hold a Master's degree

And another:

• Muslims have the second highest unemployment rates in Canada with 14.4% of the population being unemployed, as compared to 7.4% national unemployment rate

[Army Guy]

Didn't you support the purchase of planes that don't work for billions of dollars?

Your precious heart makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

This is typical of you Marcus, writing someone opinions off because they do not share your views on ALL topics....Yes i do support the F-35 program, But does that mean i will never have meaningful opinion on any other matter.....

Are you suggesting that Canadian problems are not worthy of this 1.25 bil.....problems such as clean water for the northern communities,Our homeless situation.....the list is long marcus how do these issues rate on your precious heart...

[Army Guy]

Interesting link. Thanks.

A little from his link to add a little reality into the discussion and view of Muslims:

DIVERSITY WITHIN

The Muslim population consists of diverse visible minorities, where

• 37% is of South Asian decent,
• 21% of Arab decent,
• 14% is of West Indian decent, and the remaining
• 28% is made up of many other ethnicities such African, Chinese, etc.

Here is another interesting one:

• Canadian Muslims have excelled in acquiring a Master's degree with slightly over 6% when compared with the three largest religious sects such as: Roman Catholics where only 2% hold a Master's degree, 3.5% of individuals who stated they have no religion and the third largest religious sect in Canada being the United Church has 2.4% of it?s population holding a Master's degree, however; 8.8% of the Jewish population in Canada hold a Master's degree

And another:

• Muslims have the second highest unemployment rates in Canada with 14.4% of the population being unemployed, as compared to 7.4% national unemployment rate

Not sure why you are thanking me for the link, as it debunks some of what you have said in the past, in reference to that All muslims were brought into Canada after meeting some very high standards, and yet the unemployment rate is almost twice that of other Canadians, what does that say to you ?

You have mentioned and the way your posts reads is some what confusing , as you suggest that many of those immigrant muslims are doctors , lawyers, have specific skills.....and yet while it may be true that some are, the majority of them are in sales, administration, or other less attractive jobs...Nobody here has said that the average immigrant was anything but smart, as you keep pointing out.....the Immigration methods are designed that way, with some very high standards....but we are not talking about immigrants we are talking about refugees, who don't have to live up to that standard.....

[scribblet]

IMO, the 2.65 billion promised for climate change would also go a long way to help Canadians in need. I'm starting to wonder if Canadians are ever going to come first with their own money. Gonna be a long 4 yrs.

[notca]

What we consider to be 'right' or 'wrong' might seem important but in reality it just is what it is.

About the employability of immigrants/refugees, right or wrong is not a factor. There are just jobs that it is not wise to hire an immigrant/refugee for.

A business is about serving the public and making a profit. If a community does not like to be served by a woman in a hijab or a head scarf, they will not patronize that business. Likewise, immigrants have been hired for warehouse work that involves filling customer orders but they couldn't read or speak English well enough and consequently screwed up the orders so badly that the customers lost patience and took their business elsewhere.

I'm not saying this kind of thing is right but that's the reality of it.

A Pakistani family took over an Esso station in my community and people stopped doing business there. Maybe it was wrong but the fact is they didn't like being served by 'turbans' and the stern, humourlessness of the Pakistanis. The station soon went out of business.

I recently had occasion to change my veterinary service. I took my animal to a new establishment and found that the place was well equipped and clean and the vet seemed quite gentle and knowledgable but I could not understand a word he said. I couldn't deal with the lack of communication, my animal's health care is too important to me so I had to change again. That service didn't survive very long either. I suspect the lack of English skill was the cause of it's failure.

People can't be forced to like what they do not like. You can call them 'bigots', 'xenophobes', harass them for being unfair but you just can not change them. In fact trying to change them only seems to strengthen their resolve.

Edited November 27, 2015 by notca

[Michael Hardner]

What we consider to be 'right' or 'wrong' might seem important but in reality it just is what it is.

I agree. But what it is, is immigration with no signs of abating in my community. It doesn't sound like your community is the same.

[Argus]

Yes them damn racist Canadian folks again....lashing out on poor defenseless folks.....And yet thousands of these folks are already in europe , where the european liberal minded folks, like the ones that think bringing in these folks is a good idea...... decided it would be the Right thing to bring them folks in"

I think Margaret Wente's column this morning was bang on with regard to the problems so many countries have experienced integrating Muslims, in this case referring to Belgium. It very accurately describes the mentality of so many 'progressives' in Canada.

He lived in Molenbeek for nine years, but was eventually driven out by crime, disorder and intolerance. Places to buy alcohol disappeared, and Islamic bookshops spread. “Nowhere was there a bar or café where white, black and brown people would mingle,” he wrote on Politico. “Instead, I witnessed petty crime, aggression, and frustrated youths who spat at our girlfriends and called them ‘filthy whores.’ ” The Jewish shops, which were terrorized by young kids, moved away. So did openly gay people, who were harassed in the streets.

Mr. Voeten agrees that the messy state is a problem. But the more important factor is Belgium’s culture of denial. “The country’s political debate has been dominated by a complacent progressive elite who firmly believes society can be designed and planned. ... The debate is paralyzed by a paternalistic discourse in which radical Muslim youths are seen, above all, as victims of social and economic exclusion.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/whats-the-matter-with-belgium/article27508948/

Edited November 27, 2015 by Argus

[Argus]

Think for a second. You're posting a news piece about Afghanistan. Afghanistan is not Arabic (sic). Afghanistan does not represent Islam or 1.6 billion Muslims. It's a cultural issue with some of the tribes there which you can also see in Pakistan.

You can also see pedophilia in the Catholic church, widespread, practiced and covered up by the church. But no one says it's a christian problem.

You are mistaken on several levels. There is no widespread pedophilia in the Catholic church, and there never was. The incidents of child sexual exploitation featuring Catholic clergy overwhelmingly had adolescent boys as victims. Pedophiles are largely uninterested in adolescents. Further, while the incidents were greatly publicized, and shameful, the percentage of Catholic clergy involved in molestation was never any higher than that of the general population, or of other clergy or professions.

Pedophilia has a long and respected history among many Muslim cultures because the prophet married (raped) a nine year old slave girl. If nine is good enough for Mohamed it's good enough for others. You can particularly find such culturally backward ideas in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and wherever fundamentalism is strongest.

[dialamah]

Seems some peace-loving Christian is shooting up a Planned Parenthood, again. http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29172660/colorado-springs-firefighters-respond-active-shooter-at-planned

[Argus]

Seems some peace-loving Christian is shooting up a Planned Parenthood, again. http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29172660/colorado-springs-firefighters-respond-active-shooter-at-planned

Abortion is flat out illegal in many Muslim countries, including in Iran, Jordan, Egypt, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Argus

[Army Guy]

Marcus:

Here is a EX- muslim opinion on Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XUHXu0gC4s

[Army Guy]

What we consider to be 'right' or 'wrong' might seem important but in reality it just is what it is.

Perhaps you can explain to me what this means in more detail.....I'm not sure i understand your meaning.

[eyeball]

You are mistaken on several levels. There is no widespread pedophilia in the Catholic church, and there never was. The incidents of child sexual exploitation featuring Catholic clergy overwhelmingly had adolescent boys as victims. Pedophiles are largely uninterested in adolescents. Further, while the incidents were greatly publicized, and shameful, the percentage of Catholic clergy involved in molestation was never any higher than that of the general population, or of other clergy or professions.

Pedophilia has a long and respected history among many Muslim cultures because the prophet married (raped) a nine year old slave girl. If nine is good enough for Mohamed it's good enough for others. You can particularly find such culturally backward ideas in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and wherever fundamentalism is strongest.

Well there's the bottom of a barrel then there's the bottom of a septic tank.

Edited November 27, 2015 by eyeball

[Army Guy]

Well that depends on what scripture or date of scripture you read some have said that Muhamed took a 6 year old as a wife....now some claim the marriage was not consummated until she was 11 or 12....i could not find the verse, or a source, but they have studied it longer than i so i take their word for it...

[notca]

I agree. But what it is, is immigration with no signs of abating in my community. It doesn't sound like your community is the same.

I expect the community I live in will accept its share of refugees. We already have large numbers of immigrants who have changed the face of the community dramtically.

But my post was intended to address the problems that these newcomers are facing and will continue to face with regard to being accepted and getting employment.

I believe that the average Canadians have gone above and beyond to make the newcomers feel welcome. We have accepted many of their cultural ways which are vastly different from ours without much comment. However, I feel that the newcomers could make more of an effort on their part to learn about and accept Canadian culture and traditions and could work harder to make themselves 'fit in'.

There is no reason why they could not adopt western dress codes, keep working to improve their language skills, be more amicable in their interactions with the residents of the community in which they are living.

I am thinking in terms of what I would do if I were, for some reason, transported to one of their countries and trying to establish myself there. I know it would not be easy to give up the way of life I am used to but 'when in Rome we must do as the Romans do'. To do differently is to invite resentment, even hostility.

[eyeball]

The Olde Testament says early humans lived for a thousand years but I heard a Christian explain that time just passed by differently than today so a reference to a "six year" old is actually to a fully grown person you see.

I really like how this focus' on the main point of refugees don't you?

[notca]

Perhaps you can explain to me what this means in more detail.....I'm not sure i understand your meaning.

Yes, fair question.

What is 'right' or 'wrong' is basically a moral issue. There are those who think that we must do everything we possibly can to welcome and make newcomers to Canada as comfortable and easy as possible, even to the point of sacrificing our own livelihoods, our traditions, even changing our laws to accommodate.

Those who think that way are very critical and insulting toward those who disagree. I don't understand what makes them think that attitude is 'right' or what it will accomplish.

Perhaps those who are focused intently on doing what they believe is 'right' have some kind of guilt complex. I really don't know what drives them. But they think that to do other than what they do is 'wrong'.

The other side is not so driven by what is 'right' or 'wrong' but mindful instead of what is reasonable. These ones seem to believe that it takes two sides to reach a compromise and while they are willing to make some concessions, the newcomers have a duty too to make concessions in order to 'fit in'; If the newcomers are not willing to change any aspect of their lives to adapt to our Canadian lifestyles, then they don't deserve cooperation. These people believe it is 'wrong' to completely abandon the traditions and lifestyles we are accustomed to in order to satisfy newcomers. Just as it is in everyday life, it is not always wise to insist on and demand what we want to do just because we have the right to do it. If we want to live peacefully with our fellow Canadians we have to consider the impact our actions will have on others.

I hope this clarifies the point I was trying to make. In reality there is no absolute right or wrong. What is right for some may be wrong for others and vice versa, and I think both sides of the controversy have to recognize that and cut each other some slack.

To continue to throw barbs at one another only escalates the discord and hardens the resolve of each side to express their personal beliefs.

Edited November 28, 2015 by notca

[dialamah]

Pedophilia has a long and respected history among many Muslim cultures because the prophet married (raped) a nine year old slave girl. If nine is good enough for Mohamed it's good enough for others.

Well that depends on what scripture or date of scripture you read some have said that Muhamed took a 6 year old as a wife....now some claim the marriage was not consummated until she was 11 or 12....i could not find the verse, or a source, but they have studied it longer than i so i take their word for it...

It has been common throughout history for girls to marry at puberty, generally 12 years old or thereabouts. This isn't a specifically Muslim thing, it applied to Christians as well, especially noble women. Sometimes a betrothal would occur at a much younger age, but people usually waited until puberty for consummation. It was pretty common for girls to marry men much older than themselves, though sometimes they would be betrothed to someone closer to their own age.

Don't know what the complete situation of Muhammed and this young girl is, but he's not so far out of the norms of the time; the marriage itself was probably more politically motivated than padophilia-motivated.

I'm not suggesting any of this is "right", but pointing out that one has to take the time and place into account as well. If people live in a world where marrying 9-year-olds is as common and acceptable as marrying 16-year-olds today, it hardly works to come along 700 years later and accuse those people of pedophilia.

[Army Guy]

What is 'right' or 'wrong' is basically a moral issue. There are those who think that we must do everything we possibly can to welcome and make newcomers to Canada as comfortable and easy as possible, even to the point of sacrificing our own livelihoods, our traditions, even changing our laws to accommodate.

That is a very powerful statement, one that brings up the question, do you think we as Canadians are ready to sacrifice all of that. We have already given up many of our traditions all in the name of political correctness, i agree that sometimes change is necessary to move forward, but in the process we lose, some of WHO we were...sometimes this is a good thing sometimes not....

Sacrificing our livelihoods is going to be a hard pill to swallow, frankly i don't see a need to make this drastic change in order to accommodate new comers, maybe i am not as progressive as i thought....Not sure of the reason behind it, other to make employment for the new comers. while i'm all for equal opportunity, or being replaced by someone who is more qualified than i am,i might be able to swallow that pill,..... but if my employer came up to me and said hey.....i need your job so i can put this new comer to work.....well you know the answer.....

i'm sure that many other Canadians will feel the same way....

As for changing the laws, that would depend on what the changes where i guess, if you are saying we have to change our current law system to say SHIRA law then there is a problem.....I think our laws pretty much cover everything we face in our day to day lives, i would not expect to many changes necessary....As for changing our moral values, another hard pill to swallow.......and when we are talking about lets just say Islam.....we are talking about oil and water....Sorry i draw the line....

Am i alone in these thoughts or are you willing to make these hard choices to have immigrants/ Refugees fit in.