Boges Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 Freeland got pwnt pretty bad by Maher and the other guests. Why is it when ideologies Liberals have no problem being critical of when coming from WASPS or the like fear calling out people of the Muslim faith for much more harsher ideologies?
msj Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 Freeland got pwnt pretty bad by Maher and the other guests. Why is it when ideologies Liberals have no problem being critical of when coming from WASPS or the like fear calling out people of the Muslim faith for much more harsher ideologies? Not sure what question you are trying to ask here. But yes, Freeland looked like a female Ben Affleck. If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Boges Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Not sure what question you are trying to ask here. But yes, Freeland looked like a female Ben Affleck. The same question Maher asks. Why do Liberal principals go out the window once a ideology that comes from another ethnicity and religion is involved? Edited November 25, 2015 by Boges
Argus Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) For example, my bias is to consider that all religious people are not "normal" since I do not consider it sane to believe in an imaginary being such as Yahew, God, or Allah. Of course, most people think that religious people are "normal" since so many people believe in this insanity thereby normalizing it - so that is "normal" by a "many people believe this so it must be normal" criterion. Okay, but by YOUR criteria, you think that religious people are not normal. Would I be stretching this to suggest that the more religious they are the less normal you think them to be? Based on your own criteria and preferences then, one would presume that you would find the importation of many tens of thousands of highly religious people into Canada every year to be contrary to the well-being of the kind of society you enjoy. Which does not differ markedly from Kimmy's position. Edited November 25, 2015 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
msj Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Okay, but by YOUR criteria, you think that religious people are not normal. Would I be stretching this to suggest that the more religious they are the less normal you think them to be? Based on your own criteria and preferences then, one would presume that you would find the importation of many tens of thousands of highly religious people into Canada every year to be contrary to the well-being of the kind of society you enjoy. Which does not differ markedly from Kimmy's position. If someone believes in the invisible pink unicorn you would think that person was a bit "weird," right? That's how I see people who believe in "God" instead of the IPU. (Well, if one believes in the IPU I think he is weird too). As for bringing them in: I have no problem bringing them in whether they are Muslims, Christians, or atheists. As long as they truly are seeking refuge and will cooperate with our laws and general customs then these people should behave about the same as any other person. Edited November 25, 2015 by msj If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Argus Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) If someone believes in the invisible pink unicorn you would think that person was a bit "weird," right? That's how I see people who believe in "God" instead of the IPU. As for bringing them in: I have no problem bringing them in whether they are Muslims, Christians, or atheists. As long as they truly are seeking refuge and will cooperate with our laws and general customs then these people should behave about the same as any other person. Our laws and general customs are a reflection of the people who live here. No? If you bring in, say, five million people who are deeply religious and have beliefs which are completely different from ours, does that not have an impact on what you might call our 'general customs", and, given they can vote, of our laws? Many of the nearly 300,000 people Canada is bringing in annually, especially from Pakistan, India, and the middle east, are deeply religious and deeply conservative, with religiously inspired cultural views about women and gays far to the right of what you would likely find among traditional Canadian conservatives. As this process continues, what impact do you think it will have on the 'general customs' of Canada? Edited November 25, 2015 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
msj Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 The same question Maher asks. Why do Liberal principals go out the window once a ideology that comes from another ethnicity and religion is involved? Those principals do not go out the window. Maher is a liberal as am I. We both are against the "regressive left" point of view that Freeland espouses. If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
msj Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 Our laws and general customs are a reflection of the people who live here. No? If you bring in, say, five million people who are deeply religious and have beliefs which are completely different from ours, does that not have an impact on what you might call our 'general customs", and, given they can vote, of our laws? Many of the nearly 300,000 people Canada is bringing in annually, especially from Pakistan, India, and the middle east, are deeply religious and deeply conservative, with religiously inspired cultural views about women and gays far to the right of what you would likely find among traditional Canadian conservatives. As this process continues, what impact do you think it will have on the 'general customs' of Canada? Based on first hand experience with people from India, no, I don't think it makes much difference. We are talking 25,000 people here not 5 million so such hyperbole on your part is a non-starter. You really should get out and travel to foreign lands - you will discover that people really are more similar than different. If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Argus Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 Based on first hand experience with people from India, no, I don't think it makes much difference. We are talking 25,000 people here not 5 million so such hyperbole on your part is a non-starter. You really should get out and travel to foreign lands - you will discover that people really are more similar than different. We are taking 300,000 per year, which is 3 million ever ten years. How is that hyperbole? You might get along with those Indian people, and so do I, as a matter of fact. Never had a problem with one. I bet I could even travel in India or the ME without a single problem. I'm not a female, though, or gay. I know their views are deeply, deeply conservative on those and other social and moral issues. If you think otherwise you're kidding yourself. They aren't dumping those beliefs at the border because those beliefs are drawn from their religions. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
msj Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 We are taking 300,000 per year, which is 3 million ever ten years. How is that hyperbole? Oh, so now your going to mix up refugees with immigrants. Nice, dishonest, but nice. If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
DogOnPorch Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong, but both immigrant Muslims and refugee Muslims believe in the same Quran. No? I don't think how Islam arrives in Canada really matters. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
msj Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong, but both immigrant Muslims and refugee Muslims believe in the same Quran. No? I don't think how Islam arrives in Canada really matters. Correct me if I'm wrong, but not everyone coming into Canada is a Muslim, no? If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Argus Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 Oh, so now your going to mix up refugees with immigrants. Nice, dishonest, but nice. How is it dishonest? The conversation did not simply refer to these specific people but with religious people as a whole, thus your "religious people are not normal" claim. You don't feel much respect for very religious people. Why do you want to keep bringing them into Canada, be it as refugees or immigrants? "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
DogOnPorch Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong, but not everyone coming into Canada is a Muslim, no? Do they read the Quran? I'm specifically referring to the religion/political system known as Islam. Not something else. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
On Guard for Thee Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 You really should get out and travel to foreign lands - you will discover that people really are more similar than different.It is amazing how travel to far away places can educate. Of course certain types would not likely be helped as they would be strictly the Sun Tour types who wouldn't learn much more than how room service works or the surf temperature at the beach.
Argus Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong, but not everyone coming into Canada is a Muslim, no? No. But what is the point of the question? Substantial numbers of them are. Some of us feel this is unwise, including Kimmy, for mostly the same reasons you have expressed in your reservations against very religious people. Yet you supported the statement that her reservations were racist. Why? "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 It is amazing how travel to far away places can educate. Of course certain types would not likely be helped as they would be strictly the Sun Tour types who wouldn't learn much more than how room service works or the surf temperature at the beach. No woman I know is willing to anywhere near India. Why do you think that is? Do you think a western woman traveling in Egypt or Pakistan might perhaps be in some danger? "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 If someone believes in the invisible pink unicorn you would think that person was a bit "weird," right? That's how I see people who believe in "God" instead of the IPU. (Well, if one believes in the IPU I think he is weird too). As for bringing them in: I have no problem bringing them in whether they are Muslims, Christians, or atheists. As long as they truly are seeking refuge and will cooperate with our laws and general customs then these people should behave about the same as any other person. If it's invisible, how do you know it's pink? Don't answer that, I already know. That's what religion is. The issue is what the people who do believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn do to you if you insist it's blue. I don't see why anyone who will cooperate with our laws and general customs should be denied entry, if they meet the requirements.
msj Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) No. But what is the point of the question? Substantial numbers of them are. Some of us feel this is unwise, including Kimmy, for mostly the same reasons you have expressed in your reservations against very religious people. So you think getting 150,000 people from Asia (probably Buddhists and whatnot) is the same as getting 150,000 Mormons (lets take Muslim out of this) from Utah each year? Yet you supported the statement that her reservations were racist. Why? No, I clearly said that what was explicitly quoted was racist. That is different. Edited November 25, 2015 by msj If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
DogOnPorch Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 Why are Mormons fleeing Utah? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
On Guard for Thee Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 No woman I know is willing to anywhere near India. Why do you think that is? Do you think a western woman traveling in Egypt or Pakistan might perhaps be in some danger?Then you should meet some more adventurous people. They might teach you something beyond just the headlines.
msj Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 It is amazing how travel to far away places can educate. Of course certain types would not likely be helped as they would be strictly the Sun Tour types who wouldn't learn much more than how room service works or the surf temperature at the beach. I agree. Really opens one's eyes to see how other people live and to have conversations with the locals (and no, not with people working at the resorts). The problem is that conservative people are so risk averse they probably don't even like to set foot outside the resort areas. If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
msj Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 Why are Mormons fleeing Utah? I'm talking about immigration and not refugees so your little joke falls flat.... If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
DogOnPorch Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 I'm talking about immigration and not refugees so your little joke falls flat.... Why would they *leave* Utah, then? Why is there a huge wave of folks coming from the USA? Oppression? Violence? Good deals on Whistler accommodations? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) You really should get out and travel to foreign lands - you will discover that people really are more similar than different. Isn't this self evident? This country is full of similar people who come from vastly different backgrounds. People who don't insist on one particular colour for their invisible unicorn. Then there are those who do... Edited November 25, 2015 by bcsapper
Recommended Posts