Islamophobia in Canada

[Army Guy]

It has been common throughout history for girls to marry at puberty, generally 12 years old or thereabouts. This isn't a specifically Muslim thing, it applied to Christians as well, especially noble women. Sometimes a betrothal would occur at a much younger age, but people usually waited until puberty for consummation. It was pretty common for girls to marry men much older than themselves, though sometimes they would be betrothed to someone closer to their own age.

Don't know what the complete situation of Muhammed and this young girl is, but he's not so far out of the norms of the time; the marriage itself was probably more politically motivated than padophilia-motivated.

I'm not suggesting any of this is "right", but pointing out that one has to take the time and place into account as well. If people live in a world where marrying 9-year-olds is as common and acceptable as marrying 16-year-olds today, it hardly works to come along 700 years later and accuse those people of pedophilia.

I get all that, 700 years ago that it may of been acceptable......But today, in our culture this practice is not acceptable.....our current laws reflect this....But we are not discussing our culture, we are discussing Muslim culture, and how many Islamic nations base most things, on the Quran....Including how they conduct their very lives, thier laws, their government, it is not just a religion.....it controls everything.....

[Bryan]

Well there's the bottom of a barrel then there's the bottom of a septic tank.

Indeed. Having a founder who rapes and murders does make for a somewhat dirty ideology.

[On Guard for Thee]

But they can't hold a candle to Christianity when it comes to atrocities. Mind you they have had more time.

[Army Guy]

Christianity has evolved.....while Islam is making up for lost time....

[On Guard for Thee]

I think when we all wake up and shake off all forms of religion, then we will have truly evolved.

[Hal 9000]

But they can't hold a candle to Christianity when it comes to atrocities. Mind you they have had more time.

Yes, the crusades. We get it!

You want to know why Islam doesn't work in Canada? To quote Justin in his obviously pre- arranged question, "because it's 2015".

[kimmy]

Speaking as a bottom of the barrel poster, you are seriously backpedalling. And you don't even recognize it.

What in the blazes are you on about now??

If you live in a small community in the interior, we can bet you do not have a high percentage of other ethnicities as you like to portray, especially in the numbers you relay to us. If this were true, your community would welcome refugees, which you seem to imply they don't. So which is it? Do you live in a vanilla community or not?

I never claimed we had a "high percentage" here, but we certainly have a Sikh community, a large number of aboriginals, and a lot of migrant agricultural workers during half the year.

Somebody here-- was it you? --was talking to me as if I had not met non-white people on account of where I live. First off, I've lived most of my life in Canada's major centers, including Vancouver for a while. Second, it portrays an ignorance of the rest of the country to assume that only the biggest cities have non-white people.

And finally, I can't imagine why you'd assume the number of Sikhs, aboriginals, and Mexican orchard workers will have any effect on whether Syrian refugees come here. Plans are in the works to support a handful of families, but this is a small community, with a tiny Muslim community. We don't have many Arabic speakers. We have limited capacity to teach English. Our mosque is the size of a Tim Hortons. Premier Clark's promise of money for this cause could help build capacity to support Syrian refugees outside Vancouver, but the vast majority of the Syrian refugees who come to BC will end up in the greater Vancouver area.

-k

[On Guard for Thee]

Yes, the crusades. We get it!

You want to know why Islam doesn't work in Canada? To quote Justin in his obviously pre- arranged question, "because it's 2015".

Crusades, you think that's all there is to it?

[Hal 9000]

Crusades, you think that's all there is to it?

Let's try and find a relevant timeline we can work with, I think 500+ years is too long, so I propose 10-40 years, although 2 years is probably sufficient enough to know what they're all about

[On Guard for Thee]

Let's try and find a relevant timeline we can work with, I think 500+ years is too long, so I propose 10-40 years, although 2 years is probably sufficient enough to know what they're all about

I guess if you want to try and limit it to 2 years you might be OK. If you want to be a bit or realistic you don't need to go back 500 years, just back to the Catholic extermination camps in WW2, or what they did in Vietnam or Rwanda. As I say, the sooer we get rid o all this religious crap the better we all will be.

[WestCanMan]

Think for a second. You're posting a news piece about Afghanistan. Afghanistan is not Arabic (sic). Afghanistan does not represent Islam or 1.6 billion Muslims. It's a cultural issue with some of the tribes there which you can also see in Pakistan.

You can also see pedophilia in the Catholic church, widespread, practiced and covered up by the church. But no one says it's a christian problem.

This is kind of like Female Genital Mutilation (FGM). You can see it being practiced by Muslims, Christians and Jews.

I've seen references to boy toys going as far back as Marco Polo's writing. I mostly passed that off as one person's viewpoint but it keeps popping up everywhere. The problem is much larger than you want to believe.

Afghanistan and Pakistan are part of the Arab world, fwiw. They both share a border with Iran, which is almost in the center of all of the Arabic States, and they were both part of the Persian Empire. They're as muslim as any nation in the world. They couldn't be any more arabic.

Pedophilia in the Catholic Church isn't as widespread as you want it to be to fit your story line, and it's not legal anywhere in the western world.

FGM is not part of the civilized world, and I'm an atheist so if you think you're hurting my feelings or something with your ridiculous claims about the Jews and Christians as bigtime FGM'ers you're barking up the wrong tree. And you're wrong again, I don't recall seeing anything you said in your post that was true.

[Michael Hardner]

There is no reason why they could not adopt western dress codes, keep working to improve their language skills, be more amicable in their interactions with the residents of the community in which they are living.

I read this idea on this forum, which I find odd because it was as easy to pick out an American or Canadian tourist when I lived abroad as it was to pick out a Saudi. I think that the feeling of assimilation is a power dynamic, which the dominant culture will naturally assume doesn't apply to them - even if they're abroad. I realize I'm talking about tourists vs immigrants, but it's still odd to me that people who are unabashedly dominant in their culture are so sensitive to other cultures imposing on them.

[Michael Hardner]

... we must do everything we possibly can to welcome and make newcomers to Canada as comfortable and easy as possible, even to the point of sacrificing our own livelihoods, our traditions, even changing our laws to accommodate.

I don't think anybody is going to ask you to sacrifice your livelihood, your tradition. That's your right. As for laws, the constitution won't be changed - it's difficult to do that anyway - but if you have a lot of people paying taxes then you need to recognize the reality of accommodating those people.

They're not going to relinquish political power because your ancestors were here first, nor should they. Your culture will ALWAYS have the advantage of being elementary to the foundation of Canada, so relax.

... the newcomers have a duty too to make concessions in order to 'fit in';

Nobody has a 'duty' to do anything. Cultures work best when people are prosperous and civil, and that will get us through it. Immigrants have and will continue to blend in, and if you see somebody with a turban keep in mind that it doesn't signify anything.

This is happening all over the world, btw.

[Michael Hardner]

Christianity has evolved.....while Islam is making up for lost time....

How recent does a change have to have happened for us to look down our noses at other cultures who aren't there yet ?

Does the fact that we have seen gay marriage come into our culture in the last 5 years makes us that much more evolved ?

[notca]

I don't think anybody is going to ask you to sacrifice your livelihood, your tradition. That's your right. As for laws, the constitution won't be changed - it's difficult to do that anyway - but if you have a lot of people paying taxes then you need to recognize the reality of accommodating those people.

They're not going to relinquish political power because your ancestors were here first, nor should they. Your culture will ALWAYS have the advantage of being elementary to the foundation of Canada, so relax.

Nobody has a 'duty' to do anything. Cultures work best when people are prosperous and civil, and that will get us through it. Immigrants have and will continue to blend in, and if you see somebody with a turban keep in mind that it doesn't signify anything.

This is happening all over the world, btw.

BS! The government is asking us all to sacrifice everything we have to accommodate refugees. We pay the cost, we accommodate whatever weird cultural and religious beliefs they bring with them. Average Canadian families are now struggling to survive; how will they cope with the costs that are soon to rise due to the impending deficit?

How many refugees are YOU sponsoring? How many are the politicians sponsoring privately?

Huh! Our culture will always have the advantage of being elementary to the foundation of Canada? That didn't happen for the aboriginals, did it? What's the guarantee it will be that way for us?

People certainly do have duties. When culture is what prevents people from being prosperous and civil it is their DUTY to change that culture if they want to become prosperous and civil.

I see some immigrants blending in and others not. The present situations in Europe don't seem to be doing so well.

[Guest]

Seems some peace-loving Christian is shooting up a Planned Parenthood, again. http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29172660/colorado-springs-firefighters-respond-active-shooter-at-planned

No, he's a primitive religious savage Christian, not a peace loving Christian.

See how easy it is?

Edited November 28, 2015 by bcsapper

[notca]

How recent does a change have to have happened for us to look down our noses at other cultures who aren't there yet ?

Does the fact that we have seen gay marriage come into our culture in the last 5 years makes us that much more evolved ?

It isn't the time frame that matters. What matters is that changes to more tolerant and peaceful ways have happened. It is irresponsible to let those have not changed pull us back.

Yes, accepting gay marriages into our culture does make us more evolved. Killing people for their lifestyles is no longer acceptable to civilized cultures.

[Argus]

I really like how this focus' on the main point of refugees don't you?

Let's face reality here. The main focus is really people's discomfort with the value system of religious Muslims and its often hateful and intolerant attitude towards others, most particularly women and gays. If the government was bringing over 25,000 Syrian Christians there simply wouldn't be the same level of concern.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Argus

[Argus]

But they can't hold a candle to Christianity when it comes to atrocities. Mind you they have had more time.

Who says they 'can't hold a candle' to Christianity? Do you know anything about the history of the Muslim world and the kind of atrocities which have occurred there over the centuries? Let me quote you one paragraph from one cite on one such conquest, when Muslims swept down into northern India.

The Muslim conquests, down to the 16th century, were for the Hindus a pure struggle of life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and the populations massacred, with hundreds of thousands killed in every campaign, and similar numbers deported as slaves. Every new invader made (often literally) his hills of Hindus skulls. Thus, the conquest of Afghanistan in the year 1000 was followed by the annihilation of the Hindu population; the region is still called the Hindu Kush, i.e. Hindu slaughter. The Bahmani sultans (1347-1480) in central India made it a rule to kill 100,000 captives in a single day, and many more on other occasions. The conquest of the Vijayanagar Empire in 1564 left the capital plus large areas of Karnataka depopulated. And so on.”

[Argus]

Yes, the crusades. We get it!

The crusades were a response to the Muslim conquest of Christian lands, not a chauvinistic attempt to expand the Christian world at the expense of the poor, peace loving Muslims.

[Argus]

I guess if you want to try and limit it to 2 years you might be OK. If you want to be a bit or realistic you don't need to go back 500 years, just back to the Catholic extermination camps in WW2, or what they did in Vietnam or Rwanda. As I say, the sooer we get rid o all this religious crap the better we all will be.

Trying to suggest the Nazis were some kind of religious extremists is a new low in the desperate effort to defend Islam by demonizing Christianity.

Do you even realize that hundreds of thousands of those who were sent to the concentration camps to die were Catholics?

[Michael Hardner]

BS! The government is asking us all to sacrifice everything we have to accommodate refugees.

You're exaggerating. Everything you have ? No.

Huh! Our culture will always have the advantage of being elementary to the foundation of Canada? That didn't happen for the aboriginals, did it? What's the guarantee it will be that way for us?

The country was founded on English defeat of the French so it will have English culture as dominant. There will also be more accommodation for first nations people than, say, Sri Lankan IMO.

When culture is what prevents people from being prosperous and civil it is their DUTY to change that culture if they want to become prosperous and civil.

I don't think so. You seem to not what others to tell you what to do, and yet you are here dictating that people should change their culture.

It isn't the time frame that matters. What matters is that changes to more tolerant and peaceful ways have happened. It is irresponsible to let those have not changed pull us back.

"Those who have not changed" is us 20 years ago, is my point. There's nothing wrong with being proud of the progress of your culture, but you appear to have values which includes bossing people around.

[Argus]

How recent does a change have to have happened for us to look down our noses at other cultures who aren't there yet ?

Does the fact that we have seen gay marriage come into our culture in the last 5 years makes us that much more evolved ?

I find it interesting the degree of patience some have with the socially regressive elements of foreign cultures given how utterly intolerant they are to much less socially regressive views held by 'old stock' Canadians.

I'm not aware of a single figure in Canadian politics who has suggested homosexuality should be criminalized, for example. Even a social conservative who expresses opposition to gay marriage draws howls of vituperative rage from the Left. Yet that same group will smile benignly at large groups of brown people who flood into Canada every year carrying with them the sternly held belief that the only good homosexual is one being used for fertilizer.

In any event, the religiously based hostility towards gays, and even women, are simply the most outwardly offensive symbols of the harsh nature of Islamic culture. It is the entirety of that religious culture and belief system which is problematic.

[On Guard for Thee]

Trying to suggest the Nazis were some kind of religious extremists is a new low in the desperate effort to defend Islam by demonizing Christianity.

Do you even realize that hundreds of thousands of those who were sent to the concentration camps to die were Catholics?

If you had read what I posted you would understand I was not talking about Nazi's, I was talking about the Yugoslav Holocaust. That was run by Christians and in many cases they didn't have the decency the Nazi's had to at least gas their victims before they burned them.

[Michael Hardner]

I find it interesting the degree of patience some have with the socially regressive elements of foreign cultures given how utterly intolerant they are to much less socially regressive views held by 'old stock' Canadians.

I find it interesting that you group me with such people. I have persistently pointed out to you that I don't fall into the groups that you construct to rationalize your world view on this topic.

Religious freedom is a principle, a maxim. While there are indeed grey areas that are subject to discussion, there should be no differentiation between the standards we use to evaluate these questions. I'd be glad to respond to any specific inconsistencies in my view, but I feel you would rather group me in with a vague collection of your own making.

I'm not aware of a single figure in Canadian politics who has suggested homosexuality should be criminalized, for example. Even a social conservative who expresses opposition to gay marriage draws howls of vituperative rage from the Left. Yet that same group will smile benignly at large groups of brown people who flood into Canada every year carrying with them the sternly held belief that the only good homosexual is one being used for fertilizer.

Again, you feel some need to imply that I would judge "brown" people vs "white" people differently as they arrive here. It's indicative of not being able to say anything directly about my viewpoints on these topics.

In any event, the religiously based hostility towards gays, and even women, are simply the most outwardly offensive symbols of the harsh nature of Islamic culture...

And Christian culture too. Don't forget the University in Canada that disallowed homosexual couples, even married ones. And also please remember that I defended that Unviersity's right to do so.

Are we good, then ?