Islamophobia in Canada

[OftenWrong]

On 2017-05-17 at 5:35 PM, dre said:

Right now though all we have is a women thats peacefully engaging the political process about something shes concerned about.

It's the thin end of the wedge.

[OftenWrong]

On 2017-05-17 at 5:44 PM, Omni said:

And it's a little unnerving, perhaps even scary, that there are people who will hastily try to reconstruct what you have just described into something else that would seem to suggest I am on the verge of being rounded up and forced to attend a Mosque. "Paranoia will destroy ya", or at least it likely will them.  

Ignorance is bliss.

[Omni]

2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Ignorance is bliss.

That's what they say, but I'm not convinced. 

[OftenWrong]

Sad to see leftists descend to the depths of wishing someone else who has differing views to be dead. Much like their Muslim brethren, I suppose, which explains things quite clearly.

[Omni]

14 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Sad to see leftists descend to the depths of wishing someone else who has differing views to be dead. Much like their Muslim brethren, I suppose, which explains things quite clearly.

Well then, we see that ignorance maybe is bliss, with some anyway.

[dialamah]

11 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Much like their Muslim brethren, I suppose, which explains things quite clearly.

Conservatives are the ones who reject people because they are gay, because they are gay and want to marry, because they are transgender, because they are pro-choice, because of their religion, because they wear a hijab, because they don't 'fit in' with the prevailing culture.  

The Muslims that we don't want in Canada view the world with the same narrow-minded, "my culture is superior, you must accept it" attitude that a certain small right-wing group on here also have.

 

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Conservatives are the ones who reject people because they are gay, because they are gay and want to marry, because they are transgender, because they are pro-choice, because of their religion, because they wear a hijab, because they don't 'fit in' with the prevailing culture.  

The Muslims that we don't want in Canada view the world with the same narrow-minded, "my culture is superior, you must accept it" attitude that a certain small right-wing group on here also have.

 

I wouldn't equate conservatives with radical Islam. Just because somethings are similar in some ways doesn't make them equal. It is of course a question of degrees. Extremism is the problem. For every extreme action there's an equal and opposite extreme reaction. Where is this all going? People are getting stupider as a result, I tell you. We re doing this to ourselves, being led by emotional, reactionary types.

I on the other hand have the right to dislike homosexuality, or specifically the pursuit that I MUST like it, must accept it, as repugnant as that might seem to you. There are certainly much greater sins being committed in the world than having a "bad attitude". But these days it's a very big deal to even say things.

Interesting aside, some baseball player on the Blue Jays used a "homophobic slur" during the game and is now being suspended for it. I'm guessing he called the opposing teams pitcher a fag. He apologized immediately after the game, to the fans, Major League Baseball and the LGBT community. CTV News- Kevin Pillar received a 2-game suspension, "but is it enough?". Other news outlets are now posting headlines such as "Kevin Pillar needs to clearly show he regrets using a homophobic slur". Come on.

[DogOnPorch]

10 hours ago, dialamah said:

Conservatives are the ones who reject people because they are gay, because they are gay and want to marry, because they are transgender, because they are pro-choice, because of their religion, because they wear a hijab, because they don't 'fit in' with the prevailing culture.  

The Muslims that we don't want in Canada view the world with the same narrow-minded, "my culture is superior, you must accept it" attitude that a certain small right-wing group on here also have.

 

So your argument now is that I am anti-homosexual, anti-immigration, anti-choice? I am none of those things.

You did, however, "like" the idea of me being killed at the hands of Islamic terrorist.

I can guarantee my culture is better than ANY that, for one example,  murders cartoonists for drawing Islam's beloved child molester holy prophet.

Edited May 19, 2017 by DogOnPorch

[eyeball]

9 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

I can guarantee my culture is better than ANY that murders cartoonists for drawing Islam's beloved child molester holy prophet.

Your disgusting culture rips people's fingernails out with pliers and then murders them.

Edited May 19, 2017 by eyeball

[DogOnPorch]

22 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Your disgusting culture rips people's fingernails out with pliers and then murders them.

Playoff hockey?

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Playoff hockey?

Orange peels.

[Goddess]

55 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

You did, however, "like" the idea of me being killed at the hands of Islamic terrorist.

Yeah, I noticed that too.....Yet if I point out that in general, followers and lovers of Islam seem to also love violence, revenge and hatred, the same ones label me an Islamophobe. 

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Yeah, I noticed that too.....Yet if I point out that in general, followers and lovers of Islam seem to also love violence, revenge and hatred, the same ones label me an Islamophobe. 

How would people who generally love and follow western policies, such as ripping people's fingernails out and murdering them, prefer to be labelled?

How does sphincter work for you?

[Goddess]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

How would people who generally love and follow western policies, such as ripping people's fingernails out and murdering them, prefer to be labelled?

How does sphincter work for you?

Ripping out fingernails and murdering people is official Western policy, is it?

Funny, because I've never done those things, nor do I know anyone who has, nor am I aware of anyone I know promoting such things.

My sphincter works fine.  Thank you for asking.  

[blackbird]

12 hours ago, dialamah said:

Conservatives are the ones who reject people because they are gay, because they are gay and want to marry, because they are transgender, because they are pro-choice, because of their religion, because they wear a hijab, because they don't 'fit in' with the prevailing culture.  

The Muslims that we don't want in Canada view the world with the same narrow-minded, "my culture is superior, you must accept it" attitude that a certain small right-wing group on here also have.

 

Not all conservatives believe exactly the same way.  There are many who are not religious and are more like liberals on these issues.  A political party is not a church.  The Conservative party includes people from all different religious and non-religious beliefs and backgrounds.

But many conservatives oppose certain things because they are contrary to the Bible and the christian faith.  These are such things as :

Homosexuality, abortion, same-sex marriage, and Islam.  Christians disagree with these things but do not "reject people" as you claim.  That is a false statement.  You are misleading.  Christians still work with people, talk with people, and do business with people every day whom they disagree with on some of these issues.  We all must live with and do business with people who do not think like us every day.  Your rejection claim is false.

Edited May 19, 2017 by blackbird

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Your disgusting culture rips people's fingernails out with pliers and then murders them.

What on earth on you talking about?  What part of the world do you live in?  Africa, Iran? You seem to have some very strange ideas that you must have heard or been taught.

[dre]

13 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It's the thin end of the wedge.

I think that's paranoia. 

I also think that even if a law WAS made that made criticizing Islam illegal the courts would strike it down the first time it was challenged.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, dialamah said:

Conservatives are the ones who reject people because they are gay, because they are gay and want to marry, because they are transgender, because they are pro-choice, because of their religion, because they wear a hijab, because they don't 'fit in' with the prevailing culture.  

The Muslims that we don't want in Canada view the world with the same narrow-minded, "my culture is superior, you must accept it" attitude that a certain small right-wing group on here also have.

 

I think I'm probably a conservative.  But then I'm pro gay rights, feminist, anti racist, pro choice. (on abortion, assisted suicide and headgear)

I couldn't care less what bathroom someone uses, or what pronouns they want to be called (but I'm not necessarily going to learn them all myself.  Tolerance is a two way street)

I'm against the death penalty, pro freedom of speech (very),  pro gun control, pro animal rights, for the total separation of church and state, pro welfare (but also for means testing)

I'm an environmentalist, recycler, organic food eating, anti gmo purchaser and grower. (well, the latter is more my wife.  But I'm very supportive)

I would have voted remain and Hillary had I been given a choice, but not Trudeau or Corbyn.

I don't care if people fit in.  I didn't fit in. 

But I also recognise when my culture is superior to another, and here's the kicker, I'm not against acknowledging the fact.  Nobody would balk at stating Canada is a lot safer with the gun laws we have compared to some US states.  No-one would cry "Xenophobia!", and I suggest that if Bubba was on his way up from Alabama, you would be happy if he was told to keep his attitude to himself, even if he didn't bring his arsenal.  So what's wrong with acknowledging similar superior attitudes, customs and laws when speaking of other countries, cultures and religions?

Welcome in.  Never mind those bikinis and that Pride Parade, here's a book by Christopher Hitchens to take your mind off them..

 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Ripping out fingernails and murdering people is official Western policy, is it?

It's not stated as such but it's what happens anyway.

Funny, because I've never done those things, nor do I know anyone who has, nor am I aware of anyone I know promoting such things.

You're not responsible for the actions of your government? How does that work? 

My sphincter works fine. Thank you for asking.

 

Yes I can see that.

 

[dialamah]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I wouldn't equate conservatives with radical Islam. Just because somethings are similar in some ways doesn't make them equal. It is of course a question of degrees. Extremism is the problem. For every extreme action there's an equal and opposite extreme reaction. Where is this all going? People are getting stupider as a result, I tell you. We re doing this to ourselves, being led by emotional, reactionary types.

I agree that extremism is the problem, and I also agree that the vast majority of conservatives in Canada and the US are any where near as extreme as the radical and violent Muslims who populate news stories.  

Still, it is the conservative mindset that rejects others just for being 'other'.  It isn't liberals who rally against gays or behead apostates.  

Not to claim that liberals are lilly-white either, but generally speaking there seems to exist a very different mindset between these groups.  

If I'm to be vilified by the likes of DoP or Argus for not accepting their version of Islam, a version based on intolerance and hate and rejected by the majority of practicing Muslims, then I believe I'm on the right side of the debate and ultimately history.   I look for bridges; they look for walls and ultimately it's bridges that create peace and prosperity, not walls.

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I on the other hand have the right to dislike homosexuality, or specifically the pursuit that I MUST like it, must accept it, as repugnant as that might seem to you.

I agree, you can hate homosexuality as much as you want.  So can Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and Sikhs.  But what you and they can't do, by law and morally, is attack them physically or discriminate against them in the marketplace, school or work.  

I also believe its morally wrong to claim homosexuals are usually pedophiles or want to convert everyone else, even if saying so is not against the law.   Don't care if you hate gays because God told you so or because you just do, spreading lies about them so that other people will also hate (and fear) them is wrong.  And it isn't liberal-minded types who engage in this kind of character assasination against entire groups because they are 'different', it's conservative-minded types.

Re: the baseball player.  I agree that's an extreme over-reaction to something said in the heat of the moment.  He apologized, now let's move on.  I'm ok putting this kind of over-reaction at the feet of liberals; some need to learn not to sweat the small stuff I guess.

 

 

 

[eyeball]

59 minutes ago, blackbird said:

What on earth on you talking about?  What part of the world do you live in?  Africa, Iran? You seem to have some very strange ideas that you must have heard or been taught.

 Do you understand the concept of complicity?

If I provided money, materials and intelligence to ISIS what would that make me and why?

When your elected government does this for a bloodthirsty dictator what does that make you? 

Edited May 19, 2017 by eyeball

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Yeah, I noticed that too.....Yet if I point out that in general, followers and lovers of Islam seem to also love violence, revenge and hatred, the same ones label me an Islamophobe. 

And if I point out that followers of Islam also love tolerance, forgiveness and peace I'm labelled a Jew-hater, anti-Canadian, told that I support killing gays, pedophilia, honor killings and the oppression of women.   Funny how you've never objected to that eh?   Instead you support those people.  So forgive me if I fail take your claimed objectivity and fairness seriously.  

[Goddess]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

And if I point out that followers of Islam also love tolerance, forgiveness and peace I'm labelled a Jew-hater, anti-Canadian, told that I support killing gays, pedophilia, honor killings and the oppression of women.   Funny how you've never objected to that eh?   Instead you support those people.  So forgive me if I fail take your claimed objectivity and fairness seriously.  

I've never labelled YOU anything.  You, however, love to label others.

Again, I "get" that you think Islam is all "peace and love and rainbows and unicorns" and that the extremists in the religion are so few that it is barely worth mentioning.  I'm happy that your experiene with the religion has been lovely and inspiring.  I am open (very open) to meeting Muslims who subscribe to your version of Islam.  What you don't "get" is that I have not met one - not even one - who personifies the beliefs you say they have.  And I lived in a neighborhood with high population of Muslims, dealt with them at every job I've had in that town and interacted with them on the internet.  I'm sorry, but NO.  The majority are not about "peace, love, rainbows and unicons."  The majority I've met HATE women with such an intensity that it affects how they treat Western women.  

I do not do that to them. I have never done anything even remotely to them like they have done to me.

So take your label and stuff it.  Take your excuses for how they act and stuff that too.

 

[dialamah]

43 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I think I'm probably a conservative.  But then I'm pro gay rights, feminist, anti racist, pro choice. (on abortion, assisted suicide and headgear)

I couldn't care less what bathroom someone uses, or what pronouns they want to be called (but I'm not necessarily going to learn them all myself.  Tolerance is a two way street)

I'm against the death penalty, pro freedom of speech (very),  pro gun control, pro animal rights, for the total separation of church and state, pro welfare (but also for means testing)

I'm an environmentalist, recycler, organic food eating, anti gmo purchaser and grower. (well, the latter is more my wife.  But I'm very supportive)

I would have voted remain and Hillary had I been given a choice, but not Trudeau or Corbyn.

I don't care if people fit in.  I didn't fit in. 

But I also recognise when my culture is superior to another, and here's the kicker, I'm not against acknowledging the fact.  Nobody would balk at stating Canada is a lot safer with the gun laws we have compared to some US states.  No-one would cry "Xenophobia!", and I suggest that if Bubba was on his way up from Alabama, you would be happy if he was told to keep his attitude to himself, even if he didn't bring his arsenal.  So what's wrong with acknowledging similar superior attitudes, customs and laws when speaking of other countries, cultures and religions?

Welcome in.  Never mind those bikinis and that Pride Parade, here's a book by Christopher Hitchens to take your mind off them..

 

You sound like someone with an open mind as opposed to a closed mind, so why do you call yourself conservative?

I've no doubt that there is a range among conservatives and liberals as to what they find acceptable.  Still, the more conservative the person, the less likely they are to accept or tolerate someone 'different', imo.  

Again I don't want to whitewash liberals, and there is a valid debate as to whether liberals are any more willing to tolerate or accept certain conservative groups.

Anyway, wherever you are on the liberal-conservative spectrum, I appreciate that we're able to have relatively sane conversations, even if we disagree.

 

 

 

[dialamah]

41 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I've never labelled YOU anything.  You, however, love to label others.

I do not do that to them. I have never done anything even remotely to them like they have done to me.

So take your label and stuff it.  Take your excuses for how they act and stuff that too.

Having come late to the discussion you fail to realize that the assigning of labels did not start with me, and you have chosen to applaud those who've chosen to insult me.  That is why you've lost my respect.