eyeball Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 Tell that to the gay people in Uganda, where the Christian bible is used to justify murdering gay men and gang-raping gay women. People actually consider it their "duty" to thus "punish" homosexuals. The western Christian groups we allow to encourage this are as bad or worse than any other religious group we punish for encouraging adherents to abuse or kill other human beings. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
CITIZEN_2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) No, because as i said in another thread, Muslims are at a 3% population rate. Historically, groups do not cause trouble until that number hits 4%. At 4% a group will start to push their agenda (such as the UK 5% and Denmark, Norway) , at about 6% they start to demonstrate and possibly riot (Sweden 5.2%, Belgium 6%, France 7.5%), any group that feels marginalized will start to full on revolt at about 10% - Interesting statistics!!!!. Any cites? to back up all these very randomly selected but specific numbers and the related alleged consequences????!!!!!! Edited November 20, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015
Hal 9000 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 Interesting statistics!!!!. Any cites? to back up all these very randomly selected but specific numbers and the related alleged consequences????!!!!!! What stats are you questioning? The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
CITIZEN_2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 What stats are you questioning? This Historically, groups do not cause trouble until that number hits 4%. At 4% a group will start to push their agenda (such as the UK 5% and Denmark, Norway) , at about 6% they start to demonstrate and possibly riot (Sweden 5.2%, Belgium 6%, France 7.5%), any group that feels marginalized will start to full on revolt at about 10% -
drummindiver Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 First link doesn't have any stat that talks about 'identifying as radical'. It has this though: "Among Muslims who see a struggle between modernizers and Islamic fundamentalists, majorities in Lebanon (84%), Turkey (74%), Pakistan (61%) and Indonesia (54%) side with those who want to modernize their countries; a plurality of Jordanian Muslims who say there is a struggle in their country also side with the modernizers (48%). In Egypt and Nigeria, however, most Muslims who see a struggle in their countries say they identify with Islamic fundamentalists (59% and 58%, respectively)." Second link doesn't have that stat, although it does show that 35% of French Muslims believe that suicide bombing is sometimes justified. Third link is about support for Sharia in Canada. Fourth link is the same as the first link. (?) Look, these are all different things. Be specific. The stat you posted was specific but when I questioned you about it you brought out 4 (really 3) links. Which one shows what you were saying ? Your approach is sloppy and makes me want to move on. http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/22058/have-multiple-intelligence-services-estimated-that-15-25-of-the-muslim-populati
dialamah Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/22058/have-multiple-intelligence-services-estimated-that-15-25-of-the-muslim-populati This cite doesn't support you either; it's someone asking if someone else's figures of 15%-25% is correct, and a discussion around that follows, including noting that 'extremism' of 15-25% wouldn't mean much, since anyone at either end of a group would be 'extreme' by default. Thus, a nun is an 'extremist' among Catholics. However, there is an interesting document attached to that page, a study of radicalization and ideology. I haven't read it all yet, but the introduction says this, already: Most importantly, the prevalence, articulation and adoption of specifically violent radical narratives is not the predominant trend identified during this study. Very few interviewees across the research countries purported to subscribe to or act upon violent radical views and many expressed explicit opposition to violence. The key narratives identified were; living in a ‘hostile’ society, disenfranchisement and heightened political consciousness, anti- imperialism and social justice, revivalism, emancipation and the personal search to be a good Muslim and the headscarf as liberation, bringing together a constellation of narratives. The vast majority of the Muslim populations of Europe are also members of a visible ethnic minority. Their experiences are therefore likely to be shaped by experiences such as xenophobia, lower employment and educational levels and, more recently, Islamophobia. You'll still need to find something credible supporting your claim.
kimmy Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 I guess I'm Islamophobic. I mean, I'm not terribly worried about the risk of terrorism or that sort of thing. I am just not a big fan of Islam in general, and I'd prefer a country with fewer Muslims, not more. As long-time members know, I'm not a big fan of any religion, and Islam is the worst of the bunch as far as I can tell. Overall, completely ignoring the issue of terrorism, I just don't see that more Muslims would be a good thing for the country. Usually it's the opposite. More Muslims usually means more problems. We've seen this in many European countries. Aside from the superficial, like opening a shawarma stand in your town, what do Middle Eastern immigrants have to offer? Gay bashing, gang rape, hate speech, synagogue arson, stone-age attitudes... what's the upside? I know that people are promising "no no, these guys are moderates! They're leaving their countries because they don't want to live with the likes of ISIS or the Taliban anymore!" Well, "moderate" has very different meaning in the Middle East vs in Canada. In the Middle East, a moderate is somebody who thinks that homosexuality or atheism should be punished with jail time instead of execution. -k (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
drummindiver Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 This cite doesn't support you either; it's someone asking if someone else's figures of 15%-25% is correct, and a discussion around that follows, including noting that 'extremism' of 15-25% wouldn't mean much, since anyone at either end of a group would be 'extreme' by default. Thus, a nun is an 'extremist' among Catholics. However, there is an interesting document attached to that page, a study of radicalization and ideology. I haven't read it all yet, but the introduction says this, already: You'll still need to find something credible supporting your claim. I've posted several links that show the levels of radicalization. Most exceed the 25% range. The left will find something wrong with anything posted. I'm not trying to prove anything anyways. All you have to do is turn on the news to see the end result of radicalization.
drummindiver Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 First link doesn't have any stat that talks about 'identifying as radical'. It has this though: "Among Muslims who see a struggle between modernizers and Islamic fundamentalists, majorities in Lebanon (84%), Turkey (74%), Pakistan (61%) and Indonesia (54%) side with those who want to modernize their countries; a plurality of Jordanian Muslims who say there is a struggle in their country also side with the modernizers (48%). In Egypt and Nigeria, however, most Muslims who see a struggle in their countries say they identify with Islamic fundamentalists (59% and 58%, respectively)." Second link doesn't have that stat, although it does show that 35% of French Muslims believe that suicide bombing is sometimes justified. Third link is about support for Sharia in Canada. Fourth link is the same as the first link. (?) Look, these are all different things. Be specific. The stat you posted was specific but when I questioned you about it you brought out 4 (really 3) links. Which one shows what you were saying ? Your approach is sloppy and makes me want to move on. First link clearly states approval rates of terrorist groups. I guess in some places supporting terrorists doesn't equate to radicalization? And I guess up to 95% approval rating for Sharia isn't considered radical. Ok.
drummindiver Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 First link doesn't have any stat that talks about 'identifying as radical'. It has this though: "Among Muslims who see a struggle between modernizers and Islamic fundamentalists, majorities in Lebanon (84%), Turkey (74%), Pakistan (61%) and Indonesia (54%) side with those who want to modernize their countries; a plurality of Jordanian Muslims who say there is a struggle in their country also side with the modernizers (48%). In Egypt and Nigeria, however, most Muslims who see a struggle in their countries say they identify with Islamic fundamentalists (59% and 58%, respectively)." Second link doesn't have that stat, although it does show that 35% of French Muslims believe that suicide bombing is sometimes justified. Third link is about support for Sharia in Canada. Fourth link is the same as the first link. (?) Look, these are all different things. Be specific. The stat you posted was specific but when I questioned you about it you brought out 4 (really 3) links. Which one shows what you were saying ? Your approach is sloppy and makes me want to move on. Again, according to Pew, ppl I've seen you quote before: "At least three-quarters of Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan say they would favor making each of the following the law in their countries: stoning people who commit adultery, whippings and cutting off of hands for crimes like theft and robbery and the death penalty for those who leave the Muslim religion. Majorities of Muslims in Jordan and Nigeria also favor these harsh punishments." Seems pretty rad to me.
marcus Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 Aside from the superficial, like opening a shawarma stand in your town, what do Middle Eastern immigrants have to offer? Gay bashing, gang rape, hate speech, synagogue arson, stone-age attitudes... what's the upside? That's a good point Donald Trump. "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Smallc Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 Overall, completely ignoring the issue of terrorism, I just don't see that more Muslims would be a good thing for the country. Usually it's the opposite. More Muslims usually means more problems. We've seen this in many European countries. Aside from the superficial, like opening a shawarma stand in your town, what do Middle Eastern immigrants have to offer? Gay bashing, gang rape, hate speech, synagogue arson, stone-age attitudes... what's the upside? Though I can appreciate where you're coming from, Naheed Nenshi, though born here, sort of proves that your generalizations are overly broad. I don't like Islam any more than you do, but your characterization isn't fair.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 That's a good point Donald Trump. In Canada, Donald Trump's best point is Trump International Hotel and Tower. Looks like he was more welcomed than Muslim refugees. Economics trumps Virtue.
dialamah Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 I guess I'm Islamophobic. Gay bashing, gang rape, hate speech, synagogue arson, stone-age attitudes... what's the upside? -k Review any right-wing and/or Christian site, and you'll see plenty of gay-bashing and hate speech. About 30% of the men already in your community would rape you, if they thought they'd not get caught. When was the last time a synagogue in Canada was torched by a Muslim? How many instances have there been in the last decade? Stone-age attitude = failing to accept change. Yeah, I'd agree .... your Islamaphobia is showing.
Guest Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 Review any right-wing and/or Christian site, and you'll see plenty of gay-bashing and hate speech. About 30% of the men already in your community would rape you, if they thought they'd not get caught. When was the last time a synagogue in Canada was torched by a Muslim? How many instances have there been in the last decade? Stone-age attitude = failing to accept change. Yeah, I'd agree .... your Islamaphobia is showing. Given your thoughts about right wingers and Christians, and the men in the MLW member's community, is it your contention that Muslims would be better than that, or just as bad?
cloutier Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 What u guys think of the point made in this video? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OUJNxRqrcyQ
poochy Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 Canada has over 1 million Muslims living here. If there was any danger to Canada because of their faith, we would have experienced it by now. I don't think anyone would disagree that there are groups and people who have a warped interpretation of Islam. Where they are willing to engage in disgusting, barbaric acts like ISIL continues to display. What the disagreement is that you cannot label all Muslims to be the same. Just because one considers themselves Muslim, it does not mean that they engage in and agree with the most vile acts, by the most vile self declared Muslim groups. It's just idiotic to continue to paint all Muslims the same. It makes absolutely no sense to do that. Copying and pasting quotes from the Quran to somehow show evidence of what Muslims are like is also idiotic. MANY of the words in the Quran are copied from the old and new testament. The old and new testament have just as many stupid texts in them. They are all man-written. Just as it is idiotic to start a thread about Islamophobia in Canada when to my knowledge non muslims are not killing muslims here for simply being muslim. Of course some muslims have killed, and have planned to kill other Canadians in the name of their religion, or some variant thereof, but that's not what you want to talk about, that would ruin the distraction. So if some Canadians are Islamophobic and some Canadian muslims want to, you know, kill other Canadians, exactly who is it we should be talking about? Anyway, back to the bigoted Canadians talk.
dialamah Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 Given your thoughts about right wingers and Christians, and the men in the MLW member's community, is it your contention that Muslims would be better than that, or just as bad? The men in the MLW member's community???? Muslims who don't support hate or gay-bashing, don't burn synagogues, who allow their faith to make them more compassionate people are preferable to right-wingers and Christians who bash gays, hate poor people and who assume that everyone who is a Muslim must be 'stuck in the stone-age' and a latent terrorist. Christians who don't support hate and gay-bashing, don't harass women who seek abortions, and who allow their faith to make them more compassionate people are preferable to Muslims who seek seek to impose their religion on others either by social pressure or through violence. Right-wingers seem radical just by definition, so I'd probably prefer either a moderate Christian or a moderate Muslim to a right-winger 9 times out of 10.
Guest Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 The men in the MLW member's community???? The ones who want to rape her. I'm just saying, if 30% of the people we're about to let in would commit rape if they thought they could get away with it, I don't know about letting them in. I was okay with it until your post. Now I'm not so sure.
poochy Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 Review any right-wing and/or Christian site, and you'll see plenty of gay-bashing and hate speech. About 30% of the men already in your community would rape you, if they thought they'd not get caught. When was the last time a synagogue in Canada was torched by a Muslim? How many instances have there been in the last decade? Stone-age attitude = failing to accept change. Yeah, I'd agree .... your Islamaphobia is showing. When was the last time two armed forces member's were murdered by muslims? Right, last year. The rest is so nonsensical it's hard to come up with an appropriate response.
Guest Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 The men in the MLW member's community???? Muslims who don't support hate or gay-bashing, don't burn synagogues, who allow their faith to make them more compassionate people are preferable to right-wingers and Christians who bash gays, hate poor people and who assume that everyone who is a Muslim must be 'stuck in the stone-age' and a latent terrorist. Christians who don't support hate and gay-bashing, don't harass women who seek abortions, and who allow their faith to make them more compassionate people are preferable to Muslims who seek seek to impose their religion on others either by social pressure or through violence. Right-wingers seem radical just by definition, so I'd probably prefer either a moderate Christian or a moderate Muslim to a right-winger 9 times out of 10. Well, nice people are always preferable, aren't they.
dialamah Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 What u guys think of the point made in this video? Obviously, we are doomed and will be assimilated. But honestly, I was laughing at the end. Falling birthrates are true, and its why immigration is important to keep our economy going. Culture changes; 50 or 75 years ago, we had a different culture than we currently do, even without the Islam horde. Gay marriage was unheard of, gay people were invisible, people got married and then had the kids -- even if the first one arrived a little early and it was pretty acceptable to slap around your wife if she got out of line. We're also rumored to have had stronger families, and more connected communities. The same thing that is being said on this video has been said about the Chinese, in my lifetime - including the 'fact' that it was part of China's plan to take over the world by exporting it's people. Yet, in this country, we are still Canadian - although some of us have Chinese features. Even if falling birth-rates cause us 'whites' to disappear entirely, we can hardly blame Islam or any other specific group of people for that - if we're too lame to even procreate, why should we survive? And ultimately, we're all humans, so what difference does it make what color our skin or hair is, or what particular deity we're following in 100 years? The entire video is just propaganda; please try to be smarter than they are.
dialamah Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 The ones who want to rape her. I'm just saying, if 30% of the people we're about to let in would commit rape if they thought they could get away with it, I don't know about letting them in. I was okay with it until your post. Now I'm not so sure. The potential rapists are here already. Rejecting refugees because some of them are men doesn't reduce my risk of being assaulted by some guy. Nice try though.
dialamah Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 Well, nice people are always preferable, aren't they. Yup. And nice people come in a variety of packages.
Guest Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 The potential rapists are here already. Rejecting refugees because some of them are men doesn't reduce my risk of being assaulted by some guy. Nice try though. That's my point. They are already here. We can't do anything about them. You seem to want more...
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