War Against ISIL

[Hudson Jones]

Sure....we'll just overlook the fact that Canada ran out of bombs attacking the locals in Libya !

Not sure, why there was a need to bring Canada into this... again.

You sound like a scorned ex who still hasn't gotten over being dumped decades ago.

[bush_cheney2004]

Not sure, why there was a need to bring Canada into this... again.

You sound like a scorned ex who still hasn't gotten over being dumped decades ago.

And you sound like someone who refuses to admit Canada's complicity in such things. Typical....but that's why I'm here...to remind you.

[Hudson Jones]

And you sound like someone who refuses to admit Canada's complicity in such things. Typical....but that's why I'm here...to remind you.

When have I ever refused to admit Canada's complicity? I originally called it Western intervention, but since the U.S. government was the driving force, who also introduced the fake evidence, I mentioned them without naming every country who was "complicit".

Let her go BC2004. Free yourself.

[bush_cheney2004]

When have I ever refused to admit Canada's complicity?

In the post above. There is no "West"...maybe say "NATO"....anything but...."Canada".

Let her go BC2004. Free yourself.

It means so much more when you actually say it.

Better buy some more American made bombs...you're gonna need 'em to bomb some more brown people !

Edited September 16, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[Big Guy]

An interesting (and I believe fairly impartial) evaluation of the conundrums involved in this convoluted coming war;

http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/inside-story/articles/2014/9/15/building-a-coalitioninthemiddleeastagainstisil.html

Might need a program with pictures to keep track once the bombs start to fall and the "boots" hit the ground.

Does Canada really want to get involved in this?

[sharkman]

The rise of Isis seems strange to me, in that they've taken portions of countries to form their own land. It seems as if the middle east is just waiting for the US to step in instead of doing anything about it. Same with Isis, wanting the US to get involved. When Obama wouldn't, they go find some Americans to kill to goad him into getting involved. The whole thing seems pretty strange.

[jacee]

An interesting (and I believe fairly impartial) evaluation of the conundrums involved in this convoluted coming war;

http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/inside-story/articles/2014/9/15/building-a-coalitioninthemiddleeastagainstisil.html

Might need a program with pictures to keep track once the bombs start to fall and the "boots" hit the ground.

Does Canada really want to get involved in this?

Depends how ...

http://metronews.ca/news/canada/1154943/no-root-cause-for-rise-of-isil-harper/

Harper is being an idiot, playing "I want Justin's hair" politics:

Without naming him at the time, Harper lashed out at [Trudeau's] view, saying when it comes to terrorist attacks people should not sit around trying to rationalize it or figure out its root causes.

Baird is doing the real work, identifying root causes ...

Baird said Monday that even though it is early days, he is seeing signs that al-Abadi is building a more inclusive government.

I was pleased to hear the comments by the president and the new minister of foreign affairs. I was also struck by the spirit in the room, particularly from the Sunni Arab neighbours of Iraq who are hugely encouraged by what theyre seeing coming out of Baghdad.

He said it was important for the new Iraqi government to win the hearts and minds of Sunnis and other minority groups.

ie, address "root causes".

Trudeau's taking the high road ...

For his part, Trudeau brushed aside the issue, saying he supports Canadas multilayered support of the Iraqi people, including military and humanitarian assistance.

[-1=e^ipi]

Why is ISIS thriving in Iraq and Syria and not in other Muslim countries?

If ISIS were in other countries, it wouldn't be called ISIS, would it? The probability that an organization called Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, would be in Iraq and Syria and not in other countries is 1. Therefore trying to derive some correlation between the existence of ISIS and US intervention in the manner you are trying to do is nonsense.

The rise of Isis seems strange to me, in that they've taken portions of countries to form their own land.

Why is that strange?

[eyeball]

it helps when practicalities, like war, can pay for themselves with those resources... just ask Cheney, Rummy and Wolfy! Regime change (in the name of oil) paid for American's Iraq war costs! Oh... wait now... it didn't!

I actually think it might be more practical if the US was as openly pagan in it's ethos as our pal Bush_Cheney is. The candy coated Shining Beacon pretence that it is for humanity just pisses people off. There's nothing worse than a timid resistant sphincter - embrace the horror or get off the pot already.

[eyeball]

Not sure, why there was a need to bring Canada into this... again.

You sound like a scorned ex who still hasn't gotten over being dumped decades ago.

[eyeball]

Does Canada really want to get involved in this?

Canada is, was and has been in this for decades, like BC and I have said repeatedly...get over it already.

[On Guard for Thee]

Wouldn't it be nice to put a bullet in the head of the head beheader guy? I'm a Canadian and I support this program.

[Guest]

Kneecaps first...

[marcus]

Let's see if this coalition will have a better result than they did in Libya.

Edited September 16, 2014 by marcus

[Big Guy]

Canada is, was and has been in this for decades, like BC and I have said repeatedly...get over it already.

I believe that every nation has been "in" this area for years but not too many are prepared to get into a shooting war against (well, I hope we find out before the shooting starts) the bad guys.

BTW - It's tough getting over the idea that Canada is walking into a trap while hanging on to the coattails of the misguided USA administration.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Big Guy

[Big Guy]

Wouldn't it be nice to put a bullet in the head of the head beheader guy? I'm a Canadian and I support this program.

I suggest it would be more effective to find the leader of this organization and then put a bullet into the head of the head of the head beheader guy. BTW - what is the program that you support?

[dre]

What western countries should do is the following:

1. Provide some limited assistance to the Kurds and Iraqi government to make sure Kurdish and Shia lands do not fall to ISIS. Western countries are doing this already, we should not do more. Also, stop funding Islamist rebels in Syria and Iraq. Even the so called 'moderate' ones.

2. Let 'allied' regional powers such as Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Jordan deal with ISIS in Sunni Territories militarily. ISIS is Sunni, therefore Sunni countries are the only ones capable of invading Iraq & Syria and dealing with ISIS without enabling ISIS to obtain more recruits by claiming non-muslims are invading muslim lands.

And if these Sunni regional powers are not willing of dealing with ISIS, then maybe the West should rethink it's 'alliance' with these countries. Though if the West & Sunni regional powers do not intervene then it will only spread & will become a major problem for these Sunni regional powers before it becomes a problem for the West (simply due to geography and the fact that certain countries like Mecca hold significance in Islam). Therefore, the Sunni regional powers would have to deal with ISIS eventually, whether they want to or not.

3. Make peace with Assad. The whole narrative of Assad 'being an evil dictator and the protestors being moderate freedom fighters cause they use twitter' that the Western media has tried to brainwash into people the past few years is simply wrong. There are no 'good guys' in this conflict and distinguishing between 'moderate' and 'extremist' rebel groups is difficult at best.

Like it or not, the Syrian government is supported by a significant fraction of the Syrian population and even if Syria were to magically become a democracy, a significant percentage of the population would still vote for Assad. It is sort of similar to how Canada has monarchists; I don't understand it, but I accept that they exist and the right of those people to have political representation. The requirement that 'Assad needs to step down' in order for peace that various western governments insisted upon was naive.

The best option is to try to pressure 'moderate' rebel factions and the Syrian government (through Russia) to agree to a peace where Assad will remain president until the next election and rebel groups are allowed to form political parties to compete for power. That is far more preferable than having Islamists in power and/or trying to wage a proxy war against Russia to overthrow Assad.

4. Address the problem of funding of Islamist groups from oil-rich gulf states. Address the fact that years of funding of Wahabbism from Saudi Arabia has significantly contributed to this problem. Rethink our 'alliance' with certain countries such as Saudi Arabia. And most importantly, recognize that Islam is a significant ingredient to this jihadist terrorism. Stop trying to pretend it has nothing to do with theology, as the cultural relativists and religious apologists would have you believe.

Unfortunately, Obama, Harper, Cameron and Hollande are all idiots that would rather wage a proxy war against Russia than take the issue of 'Islamists who want to take over the world and establish a global caliphate' seriously. They already chose this 'path' years ago in their reaction to the Arab Spring and their decision to side with Islamists such as Mohammed Morsi. Changing path now would cause too much ego loss, so expect more stupid decisions from these guys over the next 1-2 years. There will probably be another failure of an invasion into Iraq within a year by Western countries, and in 4-5 years the problem of violent Islamists will be worse than ever.

I think those are all reasonable suggestions. I would add though that both the Iraqi shia and kurds are quite well armed.

I would also say that fighting ISIS militarily in Sunni areas is probably not that smart or necessary. It would be a bloody mess that would further aggravate the real problem. Despite their apalling tactics, the desire to break off a piece of Syria and Iraq to become a Sunni state is actually a really good one, and its probably going to happen whether we like it or not.

Let the Sunnis have their state.

Canada should not get involved in any way. It really doesnt make any difference for us whether or not theres another Sunni state in the middle east.

Edited September 16, 2014 by dre

[bush_cheney2004]

....BTW - It's tough getting over the idea that Canada is walking into a trap while hanging on to the coattails of the misguided USA administration.

Well it's not like a strong coalition is forming behind Canada's heritage of "soft power" and "honest brokering". Where are the "peacekeepers" ?

[dre]

Well it's not like a strong coalition is forming behind Canada's heritage of "soft power" and "honest brokering". Where are the "peacekeepers" ?

Where are peacekeepers needed? I could care less if Sunnis and Shia want to fight over Iraq and Syria. We cant panic and start wasting blood and treasure every time some folks kill each other somewhere in the world. Especially when we end up creating new problems every time (this current problem is a direct result of the last invasion).

[Army Guy]

I suggest it would be more effective to find the leader of this organization and then put a bullet into the head of the head of the head beheader guy. BTW - what is the program that you support?

I think it's called "send a terrorists to allah" program..... and i support this program as well.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Army Guy

[Big Guy]

I think it's called "send a terrorists to allah" program.

I fully agree - as soon as we figure out who the terrorists are and how to send them to allah. Maybe at the same time trying to not create three terrorists for every one terrorist killed. How do you do that?

[Army Guy]

I think those are all reasonable suggestions. I would add though that both the Iraqi shia and kurds are quite well armed.

I would also say that fighting ISIS militarily in Sunni areas is probably not that smart or necessary. It would be a bloody mess that would further aggravate the real problem. Despite their apalling tactics, the desire to break off a piece of Syria and Iraq to become a Sunni state is actually a really good one, and its probably going to happen whether we like it or not.

Let the Sunnis have their state.

Canada should not get involved in any way. It really doesnt make any difference for us whether or not theres another Sunni state in the middle east.

How is creating a sunni state a good one, does this mean that anyone that hyjacks some military equipment can create their own state, does it mean they can force their will upon thousands and if you don't agree with thier mantra kill them....hey it's OK it is not in my back yard....

we will just stick our heads back up our arses , pretend nothing ever happened, and when something does go wrong we will blame the US....it's their mess let them clean it up thats a bullshit excuse with no facts behind it.......And what if this spills over, past Iraq and Syria....do we get involved then....or do we wait until it effects Canadians in some way....

It has been mentioned that perhaps the other Muslim countries should get more involved, your right....but when was the last time the stuck up their hand to do so....gulf war I, since then nothing....why is that ? I mean look at the gaza strip problem , how many Muslim countries are involved in solving those issues.....they talk a good game but when it comes down to muslim fighting muslim i don't think that will happen....

[On Guard for Thee]

I don't think it's that hard to figure out who they are. They are the guys driving around in the tanks etc. that Bush left behind and are cutting the heads off people. You send them to allah with a hellfire missile etc. It has been pointed out numerous times that Bush made a big Bush Booboo when he went in there, but we can't just sit on our hands and dither while these muderers continue. Keep in mind reports are they are currently collecting around 3 million bucks a day selling oil. That's a lot of Qurans.

[Army Guy]

I fully agree - as soon as we figure out who the terrorists are and how to send them to allah. Maybe at the same time trying to not create three terrorists for every one terrorist killed. How do you do that?

More bullets, Man has tried to figure that out since the first day we used clubs to beat each other to death....it has been part of warfare since the start.....the longer it lasts combatants will soon forget what started the war, or what it's orginal excuse was....it becomes about revenge, and picking a side....

[dre]

How is creating a sunni state a good one, does this mean that anyone that hyjacks some military equipment can create their own state, does it mean they can force their will upon thousands and if you don't agree with thier mantra kill them....hey it's OK it is not in my back yard....

Its a good idea because Sunnis and Shia in Iraq and Syria cant get along unless they are forced to by a brutal dictator. Theres more than 20 million Sunnis in the two countries combined that are virtually shut out of the political process, and nothing we do is going to make them happy about it.

It makes good common sense for them to govern themselves, other wise we will have perpetual sectarian violence in these countries.

we will just stick our heads back up our arses , pretend nothing ever happened, and when something does go wrong we will blame the US....it's their mess let them clean it up thats a bullshit excuse with no facts behind it.......And what if this spills over, past Iraq and Syria....do we get involved then....or do we wait until it effects Canadians in some way....

Its the opposite. The situation there didnt come about because of us sticking our heads up our arses and doing nothing, it came about because we cant keep our hands to ourselves. ISIS is a direct and predictable result of foreigners screwing around in a place they dont understand. And your answer is more of the same...

It has been mentioned that perhaps the other Muslim countries should get more involved, your right....but when was the last time the stuck up their hand to do so....gulf war I, since then nothing....why is that ?

Why would they get involved in trying to solve a problem they know they cant solve? If either muslim or western countries chase ISIS into the Sunni towns and cities they hold, then they will simplify aggravate the conditions that allow ISIS to exist in the first place.