kidnapped Israeli teens bodies found

[WestCoastRunner]

That's assinine! Maybe they weren't discovered because maybe Israel isn't watching them as closely as you all seem to believe. That would be the common sense reason.

Israel knew what was going on. There were political and international reasons they did not do anything. They were not blind to these tunnels.

[bush_cheney2004]

Not so sure about that....the U.S. doesn't know about all the drug tunnels from Canada and Mexico.

[WestCoastRunner]

Not so sure about that....the U.S. doesn't know about all the drug tunnels from Canada and Mexico.

They knew:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/02/tunnels-hamas-israel-struggle-gaza-war

[WestCoastRunner]

Not so sure about that....the U.S. doesn't know about all the drug tunnels from Canada and Mexico.

Honestly, are we talking about Canada and Mexico?

[bush_cheney2004]

Honestly, are we talking about Canada and Mexico?

No, we're talking about tunnels. Big problem during the Vietnam War too.

[jbg]

I don't know how you can keep posting this. Every single point was designed to better prepare Hamas for a bigger and better war 3-5 years down the road - you really can't see that? Really?

There was nothing in there about peace, trade, economics, communication, disarmament (from Hamas), freedom of religion.

Any truce should require recognition of Israel as a Jewish state, diplomatic relations and security safeguards.

[jbg]

Over or under. But since that is the case, I fail to see how Israel is under a constant existential threat.

Should terrified children have to sob constantly to the accompanyment of rocket fire? Why the insistence on moral equivalence?

[On Guard for Thee]

Honestly, are we talking about Canada and Mexico.

Our senior troll rides again.

[Hal 9000]

Any truce should require recognition of Israel as a Jewish state, diplomatic relations and security safeguards.

Yes! As a start!

If Israel agrees to anything, they have to know that the Palestinians aren't just gearing up for a bigger war. Jacee wants to give Hamas everything on their list with just a promise in return - laughable!

I know, how about whenever anyone anywhere wants something, they merely lob some missiles at Israel and give a list of demands. If it works for Hamas, maybe Hezbollah and Isis can have a go to.

[dre]

Any truce should require recognition of Israel as a Jewish state.

Whatever on earth for? States cant go to church.. All thats required is for Israels sovereignty and territorial boundaries to be respected.

[eyeball]

Says more about the nature of the demonstrators than the nature of Israel if they're stooping to Jew-hatred in general.

No kidding.

The protests come amid growing concerns about rising anti-Semitism in much of Western Europe, but particularly in France, fanned by the strong performance of the far-right National Front party, and a perceived rise in anti-Semitic violence.

It also says something when the demonstrators who are venting hate against Jews can rely on being easily if not deliberately confused with critics of Israel by...anti-semites who hate Palestinians.

[cybercoma]

Right now, they are struggling just to survive, stay under cover, prepare meals for their families, and keep their children safe. How do you propose they take up arms against Hamas? Especially when they will most likely be shot on sight if they show any type of resistance. Let's get real here. We are talking about thousands upon thousands of people looking for safe refuge against these brazen attacks (war crimes).

your rhetoric isn't helpful. Israel's attacks are not war crimes when they're responding to attacks launched against them. Hamas is leading Palestine to the slaughter and the people are doing nothing to stop them.

[On Guard for Thee]

Apparently Israeli's are suffering from a bit of tunnel vision.

I'm sorry, just couldn't help it.

[Hal 9000]

Apparently Israeli's are suffering from a bit of tunnel vision. I'm sorry, just couldn't help it.

That's actually pretty good!

[marcus]

This is how Israel explains to the media the killing of civilians in Gaza

1. We haven’t heard reports of deaths, will check into it.

The people were killed, but by a faulty Palestinian rocket/bomb.

Ok we killed them, but they were terrorists.

Ok they were civilians, but they were being used as human shields.

Ok there were no fighters in the area, so it was our mistake. But we kill civilians by accident, they do it on purpose.

Ok we kill far more civilians than they do, but look at how terrible other countries are.

Why are you still talking about Israel? Are you some kind of anti-Semite?

[Army Guy]

Have you even read Hamas' conditions?

HAARETZ: Gideon Levy

Hamas and Islamic Jihad demand freedom for Gaza. Is there a more understandable and just demand? There is no way to end the current cycle of killing, and not have another round in a few months, without accepting this. No military operation, by air, ground or sea, will bring a solution; only a basic change of attitude toward Gaza can ensure what everyone wants: quiet.

Read the list of demands and judge honestly whether there is one unjust demand among them: (See link)

.

Do You think this will bring peace ? DO you think that all this hate can be over come with 10 simple promises....which would allow Hamas to rearm to make more demands that it has not intention of keeping.....And what if there is a broken promise, all it takes is one person on either side to smash "your " hopes to pieces....It's to huge for anyone to expect to last....

I see the whole list that benfit Hamas only, you forget this is a 2 sided conflict,both sides need to agree to 2 lists .... nothing on what consessions is hamas giving to Israel...

Israel is very concerned about security, and yet nothing on the list on what Hamas is going to do for security.....how they are going to control all the splinter groups in Gaza....

It's great to publish a list and tell the world these are our demands meet them or we will continue the fighting.....promises that have been made in the past and broken , come on you can trust us this time....Israel does care about what they publish, or what they're demands are..... what they want is peace, and they want that without having to deal with Hamas or it's people....they are not ready to have Hamas in Israel....they don't want to have to support them, be it with trade, jobs, etc....

[jacee]

Any truce should require recognition of Israel as a Jewish state, diplomatic relations and security safeguards.

Why does Israel continually debase itself by whining and groveling to its enemies for 'approval' of its Jewishness?

It's either just immature and pathetic,

OR it's a calculated ruse to avoid peace,

to continue the 'manifest destiny' campaign of aggression

to steal all of Palestine and

to dispossess and dispose of the Arab population.

Edited August 5, 2014 by jacee

[GostHacked]

Should terrified children have to sob constantly to the accompanyment of rocket fire? Why the insistence on moral equivalence?

Iron Dome takes care of the majority of these Hamas home made rockets. The wall takes care of the suicide bomber threat, and the Iron Dome takes care of the rocket threat. To say there were hundreds of tunnels should not have gone unnoticed by Israel. Ground penetrating radar would have detected these things. And they should have been looking for the tunnels ad the tunnels are not something that is all of a sudden new to the conflict.

[Boges]

Iron Dome takes care of the majority of these Hamas home made rockets. The wall takes care of the suicide bomber threat, and the Iron Dome takes care of the rocket threat. To say there were hundreds of tunnels should not have gone unnoticed by Israel. Ground penetrating radar would have detected these things. And they should have been looking for the tunnels ad the tunnels are not something that is all of a sudden new to the conflict.

That's just conjecture. Do you have any citation that it was impossible that complex tunnel system could go undetected by Israel. Even if they knew about it they needed some sort of provocation to enter Gaza and start knocking heads.

I also don't think having the Iron Dome means they should just say meh in the face of rocket attacks. And these rockets aren't "homemade". They have a range that can reach anywhere in Israel.

[jacee]

Do You think this will bring peace ?

Yes.

DO you think that all this hate can be over come with 10 simple promises....which would allow Hamas to rearm to make more demands that it has not intention of keeping..

You don't know that. That's speculation and slander, and not helpful to the peace process.

...And what if there is a broken promise, all it takes is one person on either side to smash "your " hopes to pieces....It's to huge for anyone to expect to last....

And what if the two states are able to manage a peace process?

I see the whole list that benfit Hamas only, you forget this is a 2 sided conflict,both sides need to agree to 2 lists .... nothing on what consessions is hamas giving to Israel...

Israel is very concerned about security, and yet nothing on the list on what Hamas is going to do for security.....how they are going to control all the splinter groups in Gaza....

Hamas is offering a 10 year cease fire on those conditions that are all designed to allow Gaza to progress and develop its economy for a safe and secure future for the people, as part of the State of Palestine.

Israel has not even acknowledged the proposal, so has not as yet defined its own conditions.

It certainly isn't up to Hamas to suggest what Israel wants.

It's great to publish a list and tell the world these are our demands meet them or we will continue the fighting.....promises that have been made in the past and broken , come on you can trust us this time...

If there is ever to be peace, there has to be a starting point and good intent.

....Israel does care about what they publish, or what they're demands are..... what they want is peace,

It is not clear that Israel does want peace. It remains to be seen whether Israel conducts itself with good intent during the peace process.

and they want that without having to deal with Hamas or it's people....they are not ready to have Hamas in Israel....they don't want to have to support them, be it with trade, jobs, etc....

Hunh?

"in Israel"? What is that about?

Palestine is an emerging state.

The two state solution is a reality.

.

[Army Guy]

Why continue with this strawman? Nobody has denied some of these tunnels are used for military purposes.

Strawman are you kidding.....Last time i checked Israel was a sovern nation , which when you boil it down means no tunnels regardless of what they are using them for unless authorized by the Israelis government........Which also means they can blow them when they are found at any time, without permission from anyone....why is that so hard to wrap your mind around....instead you deflect any oppostion by saying they are humanitarian tunnels for food, fuel etc.....Who cares, the tunnels themselfs are not suppose to be there.

[GostHacked]

That's just conjecture. Do you have any citation that it was impossible that complex tunnel system could go undetected by Israel. Even if they knew about it they needed some sort of provocation to enter Gaza and start knocking heads.

We use ground penetrating radar technology to check out underground pipes and other things. They know exactly where the rockets were stored in Gaza, but cannot find tunnels that pop up in Israel?

I also don't think having the Iron Dome means they should just say meh in the face of rocket attacks. And these rockets aren't "homemade". They have a range that can reach anywhere in Israel.

They may have range, but how many get through related to the number of rockets fired at Israel.

[dre]

Strawman are you kidding.....Last time i checked Israel was a sovern nation , which when you boil it down means no tunnels regardless of what they are using them for unless authorized by the Israelis government........Which also means they can blow them when they are found at any time, without permission from anyone....why is that so hard to wrap your mind around....instead you deflect any oppostion by saying they are humanitarian tunnels for food, fuel etc.....Who cares, the tunnels themselfs are not suppose to be there.

Gotcha... so you dont know what a strawman is?

[Army Guy]

Yes.

You don't know that. That's speculation and slander, and not helpful to the peace process.

And what if the two states are able to manage a peace process?

Hamas is offering a 10 year cease fire on those conditions that are all designed to allow Gaza to progress and develop its economy for a safe and secure future for the people, as part of the State of Palestine.

Israel has not even acknowledged the proposal, so has not as yet defined its own conditions.

It certainly isn't up to Hamas to suggest what Israel wants.

If there is ever to be peace, there has to be a starting point and good intent.

It is not clear that Israel does want peace. It remains to be seen whether Israel conducts itself with good intent during the peace process.

Hunh?

"in Israel"? What is that about?

Palestine is an emerging state.

The two state solution is a reality.

.

Do you real think that after more than 50 years of conflict that Hamas has finally come up with a plan that will bring peace to the region....knowing that this conflict has gone on for as long as it has and the thousands of ideas from both sides have failed....And you think this one will work....your an optimist as for me not knowing your right, but then again history tends to repeat itself.

If they do decide on peace then great, but like the thousands of other peace proposals i think this one is headed in the same direction, because there is no will on both sides to make it happen. Hamas does not have any plan behind it's promises, what they are going to do to make their plan work....As for Hamas not deciding for Israel , it should have come to the table with something to offer....all they did was give a list of demands...Israel does give a shit about Hamas demands....

It's about some of their demands to allow access to Israel for trade and travel, again this is not an Israelis problem, they are free to chose who and what enters their country.....it is what being a sovern nation is all about...you can't make another nation go agains't their will.

[Argus]

In any case what Israel WOULD be doing if it was interested in a negotiated solution (and it obviously isnt), is negotiating with the PA in the west bank. The PA there is the most moderate that there ever has been, and they have made a lot of progress stopping attacks, etc. But Israels response is to punish them for it by building more settlements... this is going to help and strengthen the hawks if Abbas is unable to produce any results with a more moderate and peaceful approach.

I wouldn't disagree with this, though again, a successful negotiation would depend on Abbas having the strength to put aside his demand for the Right of Return. I also don't think any success is going to be achieved without abandoning the demand for Jerusalem. Israel is never going to give it up.