jacee Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) John the one problem in the dialogue with Dre is he thinks he knows what Hamas thinks. In fact to understand Hamas and their passion to rid Israel off the map one only need read their daily missives on its web site. They most certainly believe they will take back Israel. I take them at their word. This is reflected in their charter, songs, chants, missives in the media... they believe they are in a religious battle and God and will prevail and everyone who dies for their cause is a martyr. This collective religious psychosis is blatantly manifested and Dre's denial of it reflects his own bias and continued attempt to deny what Hamas is and what it stands for. Israel CAN and WILL finish its conquest of the occupied territories though regardless of what palestinians do.Well, rue, it appears that there is "collective religious psychosis" on both sides.That's a stalemate, a standoff, unresolvable. In my mind, those are the extremist positions. I believe the majority on both sides are decent people who just want to live in peace and freedom. I do not believe that extremism will prevail. I see a much more moderate and constructive approach in Hamas' recent cease fire proposal. I'd like to see more constructive discussion of that. Religious extremism sucks, and it's just stupid. Better heads will prevail. . Edited August 4, 2014 by jacee Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) .... Rocket attacks started after Israels response to the dead teenagers which was to arrest hundreds of people including dozens of hamas members. False....rocket attacks most certainly did not start after "dead teenagers"....they just increased for 2014: Month Missiles launched Effect of missiles Retaliation by Israel Rockets Mortars Killed Injured Killed Injured January 22 4 February 9 March 65 1 1 1 April 19 5 May 4 3 June 62 3 6 July 2,874 15[5] 6 34 1,122 7,800 Total 3,055 31 6 41 1,123 7,800 Edited August 4, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
dre Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 Well thank God counter terrorism expert Dre is there to explain what Hamas really thinks. You know they are harmless. Really. Harmless. Anyone who thinks otherwise is gullible, Now see Dre knows Hamas is harmless but uh er uh wait he is not sure if they planned something or not. See how that works. When its convenient Dre knows what Hamas thinks. When its not, he does not know what they think. Got it. Good lord can you get any more illogical and trite with your lectures on Hamas? Just more mindless bleating and wretching... I never said they are harmless. They are a dangerous bunch of thugs that profit politically from violence and enrich themselves from the deaths of those around them. And nothing Iv said is illogical or trite. Whats illogical is your silly claim that Hamas expects to win a war against a regional hegemon with rockets made of plumbing parts that they cant even aim ROFLMAO. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Hal 9000 Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 So read the plan and comment on it from an informed perspective. You'll have to google it yourself though because I've already posted links several times which you apparently ignored, resorting to lazy juvenile insults instead of informing yourself. . I have...and you've seen me break down every last point of their proposal. It's still the goal and not the plan though. Geez, I was only joking that you really don't understand the difference. Oh well. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Hal 9000 Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 Well, rue, it appears that there is "collective religious psychosis" on both sides. That's a stalemate, a standoff, unresolvable. In my mind, those are the extremist positions. I believe the majority on both sides are decent people who just want to live in peace and freedom. I do not believe that extremism will prevail. I see a much more moderate and constructive approach in Hamas' recent cease fire proposal. I'd like to see more constructive discussion of that. Religious extremism sucks, and it's just stupid. Better heads will prevail. . WTF are you talking about? Hamas is the very embodiment of extremism! Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
marcus Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) Excellent piece by Jonathan Cook (4 August 2014)--chapter and verse undoing the Israeli crescendo of lie and deception about the "kidnapped solider" as a ruse to murder more Palestinians--particularly brilliant is his catching the Euro-American Press with their complicit hands in the Israeli Hasbara cookie jar: "As occurs so often, many western journalists followed Israel’s lead. The London Times’ front page blared: “Kidnapped in Gaza”, while the Boston Globe called him the “abducted Israeli soldier." Israeli deceptions revealed in story of ‘kidnapped’ soldier The Washington Post reported on the circumstances as a Hamas suicide bomber emerged from a tunnel to explode his vest, killing two soldiers, and Goldin was pulled into the shaft. “On Friday morning, Israeli troops were in the southern Gaza Strip preparing to destroy a Hamas tunnel, said Israeli military officials. Suddenly, Palestinian militants emerged from a shaft.” CBS reporter Charlie D’Agata parroted the same Israeli briefings, also inadvertently exposing the central deceit. The soldier was “suspected of being kidnapped during an operation to clear tunnels – crucially, [officials] say, this happened after the ceasefire was supposed to take place.” So if a ceasefire was in place, what were Goldin and his comrades doing detonating tunnels, tunnels in which Israel says Hamas is hiding? Were Hamas fighters supposed to simply wait to be entombed in their bunkers during the pause in hostilities? Or was Israel the one violating the ceasefire? And then there was the explosion of military fury as Israel realised its soldier was missing. Israeli correspondents have admitted that the notorious “Hannibal procedure” was invoked: the use of all means to stop a soldier being taken alive, including killing him. The rationale is to prevent the enemy gaining a psychological advantage in negotiations. Edited August 4, 2014 by marcus Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Hal 9000 Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 The thing is we dont know if this is something Hamas planned or not. Can you explain the tunnels? Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Hal 9000 Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 Excellent piece by Jonathan Cook (4 August 2014)--chapter and verse undoing the Israeli crescendo of lie and deception about the "kidnapped solider" as a ruse to murder more Palestinians--particularly brilliant is his catching the Euro-American Press with their complicit hands in the Israeli Hasbara cookie jar: "As occurs so often, many western journalists followed Israel’s lead. The London Times’ front page blared: “Kidnapped in Gaza”, while the Boston Globe called him the “abducted Israeli soldier." Israeli deceptions revealed in story of ‘kidnapped’ soldierThe Washington Post reported on the circumstances as a Hamas suicide bomber emerged from a tunnel to explode his vest, killing two soldiers, and Goldin was pulled into the shaft. “On Friday morning, Israeli troops were in the southern Gaza Strip preparing to destroy a Hamas tunnel, said Israeli military officials. Suddenly, Palestinian militants emerged from a shaft.” CBS reporter Charlie D’Agata parroted the same Israeli briefings, also inadvertently exposing the central deceit. The soldier was “suspected of being kidnapped during an operation to clear tunnels – crucially, [officials] say, this happened after the ceasefire was supposed to take place.” So if a ceasefire was in place, what were Goldin and his comrades doing detonating tunnels, tunnels in which Israel says Hamas is hiding? Were Hamas fighters supposed to simply wait to be entombed in their bunkers during the pause in hostilities? Or was Israel the one violating the ceasefire? And then there was the explosion of military fury as Israel realised its soldier was missing. Israeli correspondents have admitted that the notorious “Hannibal procedure” was invoked: the use of all means to stop a soldier being taken alive, including killing him. The rationale is to prevent the enemy gaining a psychological advantage in negotiations. The clearing of tunnels was not a part of the cease-fire, everybody agreed to it. Hamas knew the Israelis would be there and ambushed them - plain and simple. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
marcus Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) I love the following: Edited August 4, 2014 by marcus Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
marcus Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 The clearing of tunnels was not a part of the cease-fire, everybody agreed to it. Hamas knew the Israelis would be there and ambushed them - plain and simple. You missed the major point of the article. Try reading it, before typing. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Hal 9000 Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 You missed the major point of the article. Try reading it, before typing. What point are you seeing? That Israel may have wasted their own solider to ensure he didn't get captured? Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Shady Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 Can you explain the tunnels?The tunnels that took years to build. You have to love watching somebody twist themselves into pretzels trying to defend a terrorist organization that's mission is to destroy Israel regardless of its borders. Quote
jacee Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 I have...and you've seen me break down every last point of their proposal. It's still the goal and not the plan though. Oh right ... your negative nonsense nonresponse ... nuff said.You are not part of a solution. But then, I doubt you have any real say or vote. . Quote
dre Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 Can you explain the tunnels? Explain the tunnels? The tunnels are used to smuggle everything from fuel, construction materials, weapons, medicine, food, people, and pretty much anything else. Most of them are across the Philidelphia corridor between Gaza and Egypt. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Hal 9000 Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 Oh right ... your negative nonsense nonresponse ... nuff said. You are not part of a solution. But then, I doubt you have any real say or vote. . Neither are you! Good grief, are you actually trying to be part of a solution? How can you know anything if you don't know Hamas' plans? Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
dre Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 Neither are you! Good grief, are you actually trying to be part of a solution? How can you know anything if you don't know Hamas' plans? How do you know Hamas had any plans at all? Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Hal 9000 Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 Explain the tunnels? The tunnels are used to smuggle everything from fuel, construction materials, weapons, medicine, food, people, and pretty much anything else. Most of them are across the Philidelphia corridor between Gaza and Egypt. Why do they have to smuggle fuel, construction material, medicine or food (not that they are actually smuggling food or medicine). No, they are for smuggling terrorists, weapons and attacking Israelis. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Hal 9000 Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) How do you know Hamas had any plans at all? OK, so what is their plan now then? How do they win this? You've already alluded to it in an earlier post. Edited August 4, 2014 by Hal 9000 Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
jacee Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) Neither are you! Good grief, are you actually trying to be part of a solution? How can you know anything if you don't know Hamas' plans?Nor do you.Your response was pure biased speculation. I know they have, unexpectedly, made a reasonable proposal with no 'poison pill' in it. . Edited August 4, 2014 by jacee Quote
dre Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 Why do they have to smuggle fuel, construction material, medicine or food (not that they are actually smuggling food or medicine). Because when all the border crossings are closed these things are hard to get into Gaza. Especially construction materials. Import of fuel[edit]The import of fuel through the tunnels has been essential for keeping running Gaza's only power plant. Electricity is inter alia needed for the desalination of drinking water. After Egypt demolished hundreds of tunnels in 2013 and Israel closed the Kerem Shalom Crossing, a shortage in fuel caused the shut down of the power plant.[18] Increased fuel shortages and high prices, due to the intensified anti-tunnels measures by the Egyptian el-Sisi regime, halted the functioning of sewage treatment facilities in Gaza in 2014. Untreated waste water was pumped into the Gaza shore, causing serious environment pollution and swimming prohibition at the beaches.[19] Import of construction materials[edit]Due to Hamas's practice of launching rockets from built-up civilian areas, and retaliatory Israeli bombardments, including bombardments on houses, offices and civilian infrastructure, and the razing of homes with bulldozers and tanks, construction materials to restore the damage belong to the main goods imported through the tunnels.[10] Transport of people[edit]Facing the restriction of the Palestinian freedom of movement, an advanced system of human transport has been established, including the issue of tickets which serve as a travel permit. A travel ticket from and to Gaza may cost between $30 and $300 (2012), depending from the provided service. As of 2012, travelling by car was possible. Travelling through the tunnels was popular during Ramadan in 2012. As travelling through the Israeli crossings is only permitted by exception, and the Rafah Crossing is opened for limited periods, if opened at all, the tunnels have often become the only outlet for the strip’s residents[20] No, they are for smuggling terrorists, weapons and attacking Israelis. Yup in some cases thats absolutely true. Theres a number of "attack" tunnels that go directly from Gaza into Israel. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Hal 9000 Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 Nor do you. Your negative nonsense nonresponse was pure biased speculation. I know they have, unexpectedly, made a reasonable proposal with no 'poison pill' in it. . I don't know how you can keep posting this. Every single point was designed to better prepare Hamas for a bigger and better war 3-5 years down the road - you really can't see that? Really? There was nothing in there about peace, trade, economics, communication, disarmament (from Hamas), freedom of religion. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Hal 9000 Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 Because when all the border crossings are closed these things are hard to get into Gaza. Especially construction materials. Yup in some cases thats absolutely true. Theres a number of "attack" tunnels that go directly from Gaza into Israel. Well, I do know they're gonna need more concrete. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
dre Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 OK, so what is their plan now then? How do they win this? You've already alluded to it in an earlier post. I dont see any way for them to have any kind of clear cut victory although Im sure they will claim victory in any case. Israels actions may cause further isolation in the international community, and possible war crimes charges. And Hamas will likely emerge with more political support in both Gaza and the West Bank. But overall a whole bunch of people died and we will be right back where we started. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
marcus Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) This is the power of the public--it might be a momentary ruse, David Cameron might be lying--but he is lying under public pressure--which has to keep its momentum--until he does as he says he will do. U.K. reviewing arms exports to Israel over Gaza conflict Move similar to partial arms embargo undertaken by U.K. following Cast Lead, first reported in Haaretz; Gov't-approved U.K. contracts - which include body armor, drone components, and missile parts - are worth over $13 billion. Edited August 4, 2014 by marcus Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Hal 9000 Posted August 4, 2014 Report Posted August 4, 2014 Nor do you. Your negative nonsense nonresponse was pure biased speculation. I know they have, unexpectedly, made a reasonable proposal with no 'poison pill' in it. . And what are Hamas prepared to give in return for their demands? Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
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