This week in Islam

[Guest]

1 hour ago, hot enough said:

But she is more than willing to accept and support that that happens to other peoples around the world, as it seems you are. If you aren't against US war crimes, US crimes against humanity, US terrorism, then you are part of that evil.

I'm sure you wouldn't want those people allowed into Canada to do that stuff, so you can surely understand people wanting to keep Stone Age bs type people out. 

[hot enough]

9 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I'm sure you wouldn't want those people allowed into Canada to do that stuff, so you can surely understand people wanting to keep Stone Age bs type people out. 

Why do you completely ignore the same stone age BS of the USA? Is beheading people okay in your book, what about slashing women's breasts off, planning genocides that kill a couple million innocents? 

You are brainless sheeple, tricked into hating people because of what the lyingest governments ever have told you. What is wrong with your brain? Think of the lies that flowed from the US/UK governments because of 911!

You can't think for yourself. Of course you come from one of the most brutal societies to ever plague the planet so what can one expect of you. 

Edited August 7, 2017 by hot enough

[Guest]

1 hour ago, hot enough said:

Why do you completely ignore the same stone age BS of the USA? Is beheading people okay in your book, what about slashing women's breasts off, planning genocides that kill a couple million innocents? 

You are brainless sheeple, tricked into hating people because of what the lyingest governments ever have told you. What is wrong with your brain? Think of the lies that flowed from the US/UK governments because of 911!

You can't think for yourself. Of course you come from one of the most brutal societies to ever plague the planet so what can one expect of you. 

Well, at least you are understanding.

That said, unlike some, I don't hate any people who don't deserve it.  No trickery involved.  I grant you, there might be people who deserve it that I don't hate, but what the hell, one can't know everything. I'll probably hate them eventually.

Actually, as I was typing that, I realized hate is the wrong word.  Contempt, disgust, utter disrespect, sure.  I honestly don't know if I've ever hated anyone.

[hot enough]

9 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

That said, unlike some, I don't hate any people who don't deserve it.  No trickery involved.  I grant you, there might be people who deserve it that I don't hate, but what the hell, one can't know everything. I'll probably hate them eventually.

Actually, as I was typing that, I realized hate is the wrong word.  Contempt, disgust, utter disrespect, sure.  I honestly don't know if I've ever hated anyone.

Why don't you hate the evil the US/UK does? This gives you a very good indication of how deeply the USA and western media play a vicious, lying propaganda game.

The following will elicit no response from anyone. How can you call yourselves moral people when you ignore these atrocities committed by your governments?

Albright is typical of the callous, totally uncaring manner of the US/UK/Canada/... war criminals/terrorists. I'm afraid to say that that includes pretty much all of MLW. 

The Germans were condemned for not stopping the Nazi atrocities. They were not a free people. We are supposed to be. 

 

 

Quote

‘We Think the Price Is Worth It’

Media uncurious about Iraq policy's effects--there or here

RAHUL MAHAJAN

Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price—we think the price is worth it.

—60 Minutes (5/12/96)

Madeleine Albright speaking to students at Georgia Southern University/Photo: Georgia Southern University

Then-Secretary of State Madeleine Albright’s quote, calmly asserting that U.S. policy objectives were worth the sacrifice of half a million Arab children, has been much quoted in the Arabic press. It’s also been cited in the United States in alternative commentary on the September 11 attacks (e.g., Alexander Cockburn, New York Press, 9/26/01).

But a Dow Jones search of mainstream news sources since September 11 turns up only one reference to the quote—in an op-ed in the Orange Country Register (9/16/01). This omission is striking, given the major role that Iraq sanctions play in the ideology of archenemy Osama bin Laden; his recruitment video features pictures of Iraqi babies wasting away from malnutrition and lack of medicine (New York Daily News, 9/28/01). The inference that Albright and the terrorists may have shared a common rationale—a belief that the deaths of thousands of innocents are a price worth paying to achieve one’s political ends—does not seem to be one that can be made in U.S. mass media.

It’s worth noting that on 60 Minutes, Albright made no attempt to deny the figure given by Stahl—a rough rendering of the preliminary estimate in a 1995 U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) report that 567,000 Iraqi children under the age of five had died as a result of the sanctions. In general, the response from government officials about the sanctions’ toll has been rather different: a barrage of equivocations, denigration of U.N. sources and implications that questioners have some ideological axe to grind (Extra!, 3-4/00).

There has also been an attempt to seize on the lowest possible numbers. In early 1998, Columbia University’s Richard Garfield published a dramatically lower estimate of 106,000 to 227,000 children under five dead due to sanctions, which was reported in many papers (e.g. New Orleans Times-Picayune, 2/15/98). Later, UNICEF came out with the first authoritative report (8/99), based on a survey of 24,000 households, suggesting that the total “excess” deaths of children under 5 was about 500,000.

A Dow Jones search shows that, although some papers covered the UNICEF report, none mentioned that the previous figure had been contradicted. In fact, papers continue to cite the obsolete Garfield numbers (Baltimore Sun, 9/24/01).

http://fair.org/extra/we-think-the-price-is-worth-it/

 

[hot enough]

22 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

but what the hell, one can't know everything. I'll probably hate them eventually.

The deep evil that is the USA/UK/... has been placed squarely in front of you many times. 

[Guest]

Just now, hot enough said:

The deep evil that is the USA/UK/... has been placed squarely in front of you many times. 

Yeah, but you think the US government was responsible for 9/11.  You'll excuse me if I don't take your hatred too seriously.

[hot enough]

23 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Yeah, but you think the US government was responsible for 9/11. 

Typical cowardly diversion. You know that the Arab hijackers didn't do it, so tell me, who had the means, the motive and the opportunity?

Some 35 pages and no one has yet provided evidence to support the USGOCT. Really, you do not seem to have a very solid connection to anything reality based.

Quote

You'll excuse me if I don't take your hatred too seriously.

My hatred of what? The US/UK murdering innocents, illegally invading sovereign nations, slaughtering children, raping, stealing others wealth, torturing, preventing people from being free, stopping people from having the "freedoms" you sheeple love to blather on about, all the while denying them to others?

Edited August 7, 2017 by hot enough

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, hot enough said:

Typical cowardly diversion. You know that the Arab hijackers didn't do it, so tell me, who had the means, the motive and the opportunity?

Really, you do not seem to have a very solid connection to reality. 

It's not a diversion.  I know that arab hijackers did do it.  That's what I meant in my comment.  You are so consumed by a hatred of all things American and western that you will believe anything any crackpot puts on a blog, or youtube, or probably whispers in your ear at the nearest street corner, if it confirms your narrative. 

Nobody is under the impression that there are saints in the world, but to excuse every crime committed by non-white non Americans anywhere in the world on something the Americans did at one time or another smacks of fanaticism. 

Edited August 7, 2017 by bcsapper

[hot enough]

9 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It's not a diversion.  I know that arab hijackers did do it.  That's what I meant in my comment.  You are so consumed by a hatred of all things American and western that you will believe anything any crackpot puts on a blog, or youtube, or probably whispers in your ear at the nearest street corner, if it confirms your narrative. 

 

You know squat, bcsapper. This is evident because you never have offered anything but your blind propaganda. 

No evidence has been offered and there is much much uncontested evidence from thousands of scientists that shows the US fable is not remotely possible. You ignore these absolute impossibilities and go to this crap you have written above. 

Omni has admitted to lying the entire time and you and the others know full well it was all lies. 

Quote

Nobody is under the impression that there are saints in the world, but to excuse every crime committed by non-white non Americans anywhere in the world on something the Americans did at one time or another smacks af fanaticism. 

Stunning ignorance, when you know full well it was not "one time or another". Over 70 illegal invasions, tens of millions slaughtered and here you are trying to offer up your typical lame excuses for these vicious war crimes and terrorism. A million Iraqi children died in a planned genocide by the US in 1990s sanctions and here you are trying to excuse these Nazi like atrocities. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, hot enough said:

You know squat, bcsapper. This is evident because you never have offered anything but your blind propaganda. 

No evidence has been offered and there is much much uncontested evidence from thousands of scientists that shows the US fable is not remotely possible. You ignore these absolute impossibilities and go to this crap you have written above. 

Omni has admitted to lying the entire time and you and the others know full well it was all lies. 

Stunning ignorance, when you know full well it was not "one time or another". Over 70 illegal invasions, tens of millions slaughtered and here you are trying to offer up your typical lame excuses for these vicious war crimes and terrorism. A million Iraqi children died in a planned genocide by the US in 1990s sanctions and here you are trying to excuse these Nazi like atrocities. 

Well, I don't speak for Omni, but I refer you to the first question I asked you on the issue, a long time ago.  How come not one single reputable news organization will report on what would surely be the biggest news story, not inluding major wars, in the history of the US? 

What would I see, watching one of your YouTube videos, that the AP, Reuters, the Beeb, Al Jazeera, CBC, etc., do not?

Edited August 7, 2017 by bcsapper
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction - Blaise Pascal

[Guest]

A lot of Muslims are very trying, but then there are those who are just trying.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40802538

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

A lot of Muslims are very trying, but then there are those who are just trying.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40802538

They can try but there are Muslims who would happily slit their throats. They are considered infidels of the worst kind, adulterers of Islam.

" Ms Ates has received hundreds of death threats from extremists, mainly from Turkey and the Arab world."

This is what we are fighting against.

 

[dialamah]

Revolutionizing Islam.

Quote

 

The Ibn Rushd-Goethe mosque is part of a growing movement known as inclusive Islam.

There are now liberal Muslim communities and inclusive mosques all over the world - some in private homes, others in changing locations - but Ms Ates says the Berlin mosque is a major step forward for inclusive Islam, because it is the first permanent liberal mosque, with a sign on the door, open to anyone.[/quote]

A good reason to allow Muslims to move to places like Canada - to support reform of Islam.

 

Quote

"Europe is the place where we can work on, what we consider to be, the reform of Islam," he tells me during a visit to the new mosque in Berlin.

"Because we have freedom of speech and democracy and education and welfare."

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by dialamah

[Argus]

Meanwhile in the world of Islam, violent intolerance spreads as open warfare continues in the Philippines.

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-may-begin-airstrikes-against-isis-philippines-n790271

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

They can try but there are Muslims who would happily slit their throats. They are considered infidels of the worst kind, adulterers of Islam.

" Ms Ates has received hundreds of death threats from extremists, mainly from Turkey and the Arab world."

This is what we are fighting against.

 

Yeah, I know.  It must be difficult for them.  I respect their courage and their commitment, but as you say, they will probably stay a small minority.

[betsy]

10 hours ago, Argus said:

Meanwhile in the world of Islam, violent intolerance spreads as open warfare continues in the Philippines.

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-may-begin-airstrikes-against-isis-philippines-n790271

 

They're all over the world - doing the same things.  It's a concerted effort.

[Goddess]

13 hours ago, dialamah said:

Revolutionizing Islam.

A good reason to allow Muslims to move to places like Canada - to support reform of Islam.

I agree with this except very few Muslims want or think Islam is in need of reform. Look at all the death threats reformers get from fellow Muslims. Hirsi is just one example.

[hot enough]

33 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I agree with this except very few Muslims want or think Islam is in need of reform. Look at all the death threats reformers get from fellow Muslims. Hirsi is just one example.

The same old memes, Goddess. You lot are on this crusade for spurious reasons.

Look at all the actual deaths that the US carries out against those who think the US has no business in their countries, murdering their children and stealing their wealth. 

Are you supportive of the US funding proxies to slash women's breasts off, skin people alive, ... ?

Are you supportive of the US/UK supporting proxies to behead people, dismember them alive, stick hot pokers into their body orifices, ... ?

Edited August 8, 2017 by hot enough

[dialamah]

22 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I agree with this except very few Muslims want or think Islam is in need of reform. Look at all the death threats reformers get from fellow Muslims. Hirsi is just one example.

Indeed and that is part of the process of reform.  Taking the attitude that its not working or doesn't count because there is resistance is short-sighted.  No progressive movement has ever been welcomed with open arms by the conservatives or those who believe in the status quo.  

[betsy]

1 minute ago, hot enough said:

Look at all the actual deaths that the US carries out against those who think the US has no business in their countries, murdering their children and stealing their wealth. 

Are you supportive of the US funding proxies to slash women's breasts off, skin people alive, ... ?

Are you supportive of the US/UK supporting proxies to behead people, dismember them alive, stick hot pokers into their body orifices, ... ?

 

hahahahaha - now they're just "proxies."    

[hot enough]

14 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

hahahahaha - now they're just "proxies."     

That's still the US murdering innocent men, women and children, Betsy, and you, a putative christian, revel in that fact. 

There are myriad examples of the US, its own soldiers murdering tens of millions, engaging in the same atrocities. 

Just to be clear, 

Are you supportive of the US funding proxies to slash women's breasts off, skin people alive, ... ? These US crimes against humanity took the lives of some 50,000 innocents. The US was convicted of international terrorism and you avidly support this international terrorism. 

Are you supportive of the US/UK supporting proxies to behead people, dismember them alive, stick hot pokers into their body orifices, ... ? These US/UK crimes against humanity took over a million innocents' lives. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by hot enough

[dialamah]

12 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Yeah, I know.  It must be difficult for them.  I respect their courage and their commitment, but as you say, they will probably stay a small minority.

Oh ye of little faith!  How many women, blacks and gays have been threatened, harassed, beaten and even killed on their way to reforming the society in which they lived?  Yet we now live in a very different society than we did 50 or 100 years ago.  

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Oh ye of little faith!  How many women, blacks and gays have been threatened, harassed, beaten and even killed on their way to reforming the society in which they lived?  Yet we now live in a very different society than we did 50 or 100 years ago.  

I would say you are more optimistic than I am, but I hope you're right. 

[Goddess]

26 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Indeed and that is part of the process of reform.  Taking the attitude that its not working or doesn't count because there is resistance is short-sighted.  No progressive movement has ever been welcomed with open arms by the conservatives or those who believe in the status quo.  

I realize it's the process of reform - I've read a lot about the civil rights movement in the US.  No reform happens without growing pains.

That's not the same as the attitude that it's not working or doesn't count.

The civil rights movement was a bit different though.....the majority of blacks WANTED reform.  And many white people worked with them to make that happen.  I dont' see a lot of Muslims WANTING reform. And those that do are shouted down by the majority and others wanting to help them introduce reforms are shouted down and called Islamophobes.  

[hot enough]

21 minutes ago, Goddess said:

The civil rights movement was a bit different though.....the majority of blacks WANTED reform.  

 

Well duuuuuhhh. The two situations are not even close, Goddess. 

Quote

And many white people worked with them to make that happen.

You couldn't have read very much on the civil rights movement. 

Quote

 I dont' see a lot of Muslims WANTING reform. And those that do are shouted down by the majority and others wanting to help them introduce reforms are shouted down and called Islamophobes.  

I don't see what you are making the big deal over. You folks don't care about what happens in other lands unless it has some propaganda value for you to attack Muslims in western countries. Where were you when the USA was supporting the worst of the worst Taliban in Afghanistan, using the Afghan people for the US's own selfish political ends?