Another Conservative crosses the floor, bringing Liberals 1 MP shy of majority

[eyeball]

20 hours ago, Goddess said:

I have a great idea! 

Let's have MORE of that, amiright?

It doesn't look like it to me.

[ironstone]

22 hours ago, Moonbox said:

This is trash logic and implies that Poilievre's opponents want weak borders, higher crime rates and to prevent getting resources to the market. 

But our border is actually weak. People can literally stroll across at various locations. Our immigration system is weak as is the vetting process. Crime has risen since 2015. And at least with respect to oil(our most lucrative resource), it is very difficult to get it to market, to say nothing of expanding development.

The Liberals have failed to properly address these issues at the minimum. The border problem alone should be a no-brainer but they have done next to nothing since 2015.

It is not wrong for the opposition leader to point these things out.

Edited December 13, 2025 by ironstone

[ExFlyer]

It turns out that Michael Ma was "parachuted" into the riding and the incumbent was asked to step down so Michael can run.  Maybe the hand picked by the conservative leadership abandoned them is why they are so mad???

 

Edited December 15, 2025 by ExFlyer

[Moonbox]

On 12/13/2025 at 11:58 AM, ironstone said:

It is not wrong for the opposition leader to point these things out.

It's good for an opposition leader to point these things out.  Nobody is saying it isn't. 

The point of contention here is that wanting strong borders, lower crime and a better economy etc. isn't a noteworthy or unique position.  That's what everyone wants.  The amount a politician focuses on these issues, and whether the policies are helpful, harmful or forgettable, is a better question.  

When someone asks what's wrong with Poilievre wanting strong borders and to lower crime, the answer is nothing, but it was a dumb question.  That has nothing to do with why a large majority of Canada can't stand him.  

[Goddess]

51 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

wanting strong borders, lower crime and a better economy etc. isn't a noteworthy or unique position.  That's what everyone wants.

No, not everyone wants that.

The Liberal party has actively worked AGAINST all those things for 11 years now.

[ExFlyer]

[ironstone]

4 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Perhaps more context is needed here. Were any of those things listed above part of an omnibus bill or a budget which may have included items that the Conservatives could not, in good conscience, bring themselves to vote for?

It is rather common for political parties to use poison pill tactics against their opponents. For all those years that the Liberals did not have a majority, they were able to count on the NDP to win votes in the House of Commons. The bills got passed but things didn't really get better.

And it is worth noting that even after ten years in office, Canada is still faced with some very serious problems that aren't getting better. Homelessness, crime, immigration, health care, and perhaps the worst problem of all, the cost of living.

[Goddess]

31 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Perhaps more context is needed here. Were any of those things listed above part of an omnibus bill or a budget which may have included items that the Conservatives could not, in good conscience, bring themselves to vote for?

It is rather common for political parties to use poison pill tactics against their opponents. For all those years that the Liberals did not have a majority, they were able to count on the NDP to win votes in the House of Commons. The bills got passed but things didn't really get better.

And it is worth noting that even after ten years in office, Canada is still faced with some very serious problems that aren't getting better. Homelessness, crime, immigration, health care, and perhaps the worst problem of all, the cost of living.

 

Conservatives:  "We're voting against this bill because it also contains several unconstitutional power grabs."

Liberals:  "THE CONSERVATIVES ARE AGAINST FEEDING CHILDREN LUNCH!!!!!!"

Conservatives:  "The provinces already have lunch programs and most of the tax dollars going to this federal program will just go to bureaucracy."

Liberals:  "THE CONSERVATIVES WANT CHILDREN TO STARVE!!!!!!"

Liberal Supporters:  

They don't understand about omnibus bills and even if they do, they WANT more government control and reject accountability in government.

They especially don't understand omnibus bills when they are 12 years old.

 

 

[Moonlight Graham]

On 12/12/2025 at 1:58 PM, Moonbox said:

This is trash logic and implies that Poilievre's opponents want weak borders, higher crime rates and to prevent getting resources to the market. 

His opponents have made policies which resulted in these things.  Stop making excuses for them and hold them accountable for their terrible management of the country.

[ExFlyer]

57 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Perhaps more context is needed here. Were any of those things listed above part of an omnibus bill or a budget which may have included items that the Conservatives could not, in good conscience, bring themselves to vote for?

It is rather common for political parties to use poison pill tactics against their opponents. For all those years that the Liberals did not have a majority, they were able to count on the NDP to win votes in the House of Commons. The bills got passed but things didn't really get better.

And it is worth noting that even after ten years in office, Canada is still faced with some very serious problems that aren't getting better. Homelessness, crime, immigration, health care, and perhaps the worst problem of all, the cost of living.

Ok...just bringing to light what PP voted against...no matter where or when. Does not look like there was an attempt to help Canada get better for Canadians and only demonstrates where the real PP was heading.

The issues you bring up have been "a problem" for some for many decades. 

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Sure there's room for some social programs but all the Liberals and NDP do is throw ridiculous amounts of our tax dollars at a problem and charge the rest to the debt and hope the problems goes away.  Except our healthcare systems, which they don't seem to give a crap about.

Meanwhile they largely ignore all the conditions that makes these problems in the first place and even enact many policies that cause them or worsen them.

Verdict is still out on Carney.  At least he's made some peace with Alberta.

[ironstone]

2 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

The issues you bring up have been "a problem" for some for many decades.

To an extent. But it's impossible to ignore that they have gotten demonstrably worse since 2015. Liberal policies like carbon taxes, bail not jail, mass immigration, profligate spending, have exacerbated these problems.

Promoting mass immigration while we have a housing shortage??? What are they thinking? Perhaps the Liberals feel that importing new voters is far more important than being able to buy a house or find an affordable apartment.

[ExFlyer]

3 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Sure there's room for some social programs but all the Liberals and NDP do is throw ridiculous amounts of our tax dollars at a problem and charge the rest to the debt and hope the problems goes away.  Except our healthcare systems, which they don't seem to give a crap about.

Meanwhile they largely ignore all the conditions that makes these problems in the first place and even enact many policies that cause them or worsen them.

Verdict is still out on Carney.  At least he's made some peace with Alberta.

When will people understand that the feds give money to the provinces and the provides have almost exclusive jurisdiction to the health care systems of this country. 

And Carney seems to be making inroads on world wide trade. Thing is, trade with nations is not an overnight thing...it is not like buying a car or something and walking out the door with it, it tales time for existing deals to expire or be changed.

[Goddess]

11 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

The issues you bring up have been "a problem" for some for many decades. 

There's always been issues, yes, but NOT to the extent we've seen in the last 10 years.  You're in utter denial if you don't see that.

We've been bringing in massive numbers of immigrants, which has strained our educational, healthcare, housing, economic systems.  Hell, even the Liberals themselves said they got it wrong and here you are claiming No, they got it right. 🙄

Food bank usage has exploded, they can't keep up with demand and 25% of Canadians now experience food insecurity.

This is all over the MSM, too, so I'm unclear as to why you claim nothing has gotten worse under the Liberals in the last 10 years or why you support continuing on the same path.

Edited December 15, 2025 by Goddess

[Moonlight Graham]

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

The issues you bring up have been "a problem" for some for many decades. 

Stop making excuses for the gross mismanagement of the country by the Liberals and NDP.

And every single problem mentioned is significantly worse now since the Liberals and NDP have been running things.  

[Moonlight Graham]

2 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

When will people understand that the feds give money to the provinces and the provides have almost exclusive jurisdiction to the health care systems of this country. 

No they don't, they sign conditional agreements for the money that have to be spent a certain way.

The feds also brought in a gazillion new migrants and increased demand on our health system, and started funding new programs like pharma and dental instead of putting more funding towards fixing the main health systems.

[ExFlyer]

Just now, ironstone said:

To an extent. But it's impossible to ignore that they have gotten demonstrably worse since 2015. Liberal policies like carbon taxes, bail not jail, mass immigration, profligate spending, have exacerbated these problems.

Promoting mass immigration while we have a housing shortage??? What are they thinking? Perhaps the Liberals feel that importing new voters is far more important than being able to buy a house or find an affordable apartment.

Look, I have lived in numerous cities in my life. 

Growing up in Vancouver in the 60's had a problem with homelessness and social issues. 

I lived in the Comox Valley in the 70+ and htere were many homeless there too, especially in Winter, and housing was very difficult to buy until the government had the AHOP program 

I lived in Edmonton and there were lots of homeless and housing was unaffordable then when the oil boom crashed it became a buyers market then it went unaffordable again. Plus, there were they years and years of 15+% mortgage rates.

Where I live now, housing was a problem, then settled and now it is expensive again...along with the rest of the country.

There is no constitutional right to owning a home. "Between 2011 and 2021, the number of renter households grew at more than double the pace of owner households (21.5% versus 8.4%)." "the number of renter households grew at more than double the pace of owner households (21.5% versus 8.4%)." 5 million renter households in 2021, a 21.5% growth since 2011. This means approximately one-third (33.1%) of Canadians were living in rented accommodation in 2021" "In 1986, about four in ten households rented their residence. This decreased to about three in ten households in 2005, but has since risen again"

This is not a Liberal or Conservative situation alone , it is the times we were in. Today we have issues as well but...they seem to be cyclical....

[ExFlyer]

2 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

No they don't, they sign conditional agreements for the money that have to be spent a certain way.

The feds also brought in a gazillion new migrants and increased demand on our health system, and started funding new programs like pharma and dental instead of putting more funding towards fixing the main health systems.

the federal government provides significant financial support to the provinces and territories for healthcare through a major transfer program called the

Canada Health Transfer (CHT). 

 

This funding is a cornerstone of Canada's publicly funded healthcare system, which is managed and delivered by the provincial and territorial governments. 

 

 

How Federal Healthcare Funding Works

 

• Canada Health Transfer (CHT): This is the largest federal transfer, providing long-term, predictable funding on an equal per capita basis to all provinces and territories. The CHT is projected to be approximately $54.7 billion in 2025-26.
• Conditions: To receive their full CHT contribution, provinces and territories must adhere to the principles and conditions set out in the Canada Health Act, such as public administration, universality, and accessibility for medically necessary services.
• Targeted Funding: In addition to the CHT, the federal government provides targeted, time-limited funding through bilateral agreements for specific priority areas, such as mental health and substance use services, home and community care, and reducing surgical backlogs. 

•  

Overall, federal funding (including the CHT and historical tax point transfers) accounts for approximately one third of all public money provinces and territories spend on healthcare. Provinces and territories generate the remaining 78% of the public cost through their own tax revenues. 

[Goddess]

Youth in Canada the country's least happy generation

I guess all these young people in Canada are just imagining it.

eyeball, 12-year-old boy, tree, et al.......I'm just putting this here because I know you get so much joy out of mocking them and telling them they are lying.

[Shady]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

When someone asks what's wrong with Poilievre wanting strong borders and to lower crime, the answer is nothing, but it was a dumb question.  That has nothing to do with why a large majority of Canada can't stand him.  

Then Canadians need to grow the f**k up, and stop acting like children.  Start voting for somebody that will actually fix problems, instead of somebody you personally like better but that continues to f**k things up.  That's why Canada is in the mess it's in now.   We went from people like Martin, Harper, etc, who had the personalities of a dead fish, but actually governed well, to Trudeau, who just wanted to cos play a prime minster.

[Moonbox]

2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

His opponents have made policies which resulted in these things.  Stop making excuses for them and hold them accountable for their terrible management of the country.

What excuses are you referring to, exactly? 

I think the worst Prime Minister that Canada's ever had was Pierre Trudeau...until his son.  I also think that a lot of the Liberal MPs share the blame for enabling his incompetence.

1 hour ago, Shady said:

Then Canadians need to grow the f**k up, and stop acting like children.  Start voting for somebody that will actually fix problems, instead of somebody you personally like better but that continues to f**k things up

That's the rub.  Canadians didn't think Poilievre would fix the problems.  Peddling conspiracy theories and culture-war rage-bait might be compelling to the base and get folks like you excited, but they're distractions, not solutions.

 

[Moonlight Graham]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Growing up in Vancouver in the 60's had a problem with homelessness and social issues...

Of course you grew up there.  The hippie output of the area around Vancouver never ceases to amaze me.  We should have tariffed that US import hard.  Thank you Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco.

And yes, the drugged-out hippies and Nirvana fans there have been shoving things up their noses for decades.  But homelessness in this country has never been as bad as it is now.

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, Goddess said:

No, not everyone wants that.

The Liberal party has actively worked AGAINST all those things for 11 years now.

You people actually believe they hold meetings and exchange emails, write meeting agendas and record the minutes thereof when discussing how to weaken our borders, increase our crime rate and wreck the economy. You believe the world's media is in on it.  You're paranoid loons.

Its pretty obvious why no one wants you put in charge of anything.

[Legato]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You people actually believe they hold meetings and exchange emails, write meeting agendas and record the minutes thereof when discussing how to weaken our borders, increase our crime rate and wreck the economy. You believe the world's media is in on it.  You're paranoid loons.

Its pretty obvious why no one wants you put in charge of anything.

Then how do you explain the obvious results.

Those nasty witches weaving their spells again? Eye's wide shut as usual.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Goddess said:

Youth in Canada the country's least happy generation

I guess all these young people in Canada are just imagining it.

eyeball, 12-year-old boy, tree, et al.......I'm just putting this here because I know you get so much joy out of mocking them and telling them they are lying.

Speaking for myself, you can fúck off, thank you very much.

I'm not surprised young people have such a bleak outlook given how dark the future looks.  It certainly took a lot longer than 11 years to get this way.  The fact you people put such an enormous amount of effort into just blaming someone else instead of taking action against them doesn't help.