Diversity is not a strength, it's a weakness. And why are the Laurentian Elites fixated on DEI?

[I am Groot]

15 hours ago, eyeball said:

It's the racism today in the here and now that we need to take measures against and it's still coming down the pike as far as the eye can see.

Phhhht. Every study shows Canada and other Western nations are at the top of the list when it comes to egalitarian societies free of racism. The irony is that the people we're bringing here, and who we are, thanks to multiculturalism, not trying to integrate, are generally at the bottom and come from the most racist, misogynistic, and intolerant societies on Earth.

I can't help noticing that the most leftist institutions, like universities, always seem to be filled with racism! Why is that?
Trudeau said every government department and agency was institutionally racist. Are they still? Even after ten years of Liberal government? The Left sees any differences between performance and outcomes of different identity groups as PROOF that there is racism/prejudice. But that's logically indefensible. No separate groups perform identically. Even siblings in the same family don't perform identically.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

 If they don't like the laws and way of life here get the F*ck out.

Oh great, another entitled immigrant who thinks they can impose their values on Canada...

😂

Edited September 21, 2025 by Michael Hardner

[Michael Hardner]

16 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

1. I don't impose Canadian values. I adopt to them. 

2. You and your likes are blind not to see what is happening. See what is happening in Europe. See what is happening in London, with Pakistani mayor. I will not allow it here.

1. Not really.  Trust a Canadian when he tells you that.

2. Stop bringing your homeland issues here.  We are dealing with immigration in a Canadian way, not with your fear mongering...

[Barquentine]

3 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

respect for other religions, love of neighbor, respect for human rights and freedom in social life.

The opposite of what you're espousing. Isn't it ironic, don't ya' think?

 

3 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I will not allow it here.

YOU will not allow it here? Delusions of grandeur or are you plotting something?

[CITIZEN_2015]

23 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

YOU will not allow it here? Delusions of grandeur or are you plotting something?

I meant by not staying silent about the invasion.

24 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

The opposite of what you're espousing. 

No not at all. 

[herbie]

"Our values" are nowhere near your values as is abundantly clear.
You may have some sympathy from those believing immigrants are affecting housing, but you can shove your 'our culture', 'our beliefs' and invasion bullshit right up your tight white asses. Move south and join the Klan with that attitude,

[BeaverFever]

On 9/20/2025 at 10:19 AM, I am Groot said:

Another odd thing about the Left is how it sneers at and looks down at Americans, yet, like a child lying on the floor by the stairs listening to adults, it eagerly waits for whatever new faddish political idea the grown-ups down south come up with so it can eagerly put it in place here.

Such is DEI.

DEI is a concept the Americans came up with to try to include blacks and others in the mainstream who they believed had been largely shut out for many decades due to racism, segregation and slavery. It's debatable whether it was necessary or helpful, but there was never any point for it in Canada. According to the last census, 98.4% of 'visible minorities' are immigrants or their kids. Who exactly are we so determined to make up to for our past racism? How does it make sense for us to completely skew everything from hiring and promotion to university acceptance, government science and business grants, etc. in order to give preference to immigrants and their kids? And how does anyone think this would somehow NOT increase racism?

Whenever the Left is asked for justification for this, they will usually cite some statistic about how whites are more numerous than blacks or others in a given profession or occupation, or make more money, or whatever. But why would distinct and separate groups act, think, or behave in the same way? Why would we expect immigrants born and raised in a different culture, with different values and different educations, to have the same outcomes here as 'old stock' Canadians? Why would we think Asians or Africans would be exactly as interested in being lawyers or cops or teachers in the same numbers as Canadians, and would be capable of passing the tests, given their lower skills in English?

But every university course admission, every hiring test, every government grant is guided by DEI - not merit. Which, as Steven Pinker says, is madness.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/diversity-mandates-killing-canadian-science-famed-academic-tells-commons-committee

BREAKING NEWS:  Visible Minorities don’t experience discrimination if they’re immigrants

Omg even for the National Post this article is bad

 

[Moonlight Graham]

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Your posts are becoming more provocative, as you compare the failures of both ideologies to look at the impact of their viewpoints on our futures. 

However, if you will allow me a nitpicker 10: 

1a. An overstatement. We're still standing, even if we're at the precipice of a fall. It's not at all clear that we won't be able to get over this.

1b. I pointed out above that all countries are experiencing this, and over half of them already have a replacement rate. Two load of sustain their population growth.

2. Technology?  I guess so, very but it includes just wrapping plastic around it. So... Low-tech I guess. 

3. I'm not sure what you're talking about in terms of guilt. It's a left right nexus to me, that occurs when people talk about choice.  Both left and right value the idea of personal Liberty, at least in this regard. Liberal Western democracy values choice and lets people choose. Maybe there's implied value given to certain choices, but I think it's a stretch to call that guilting 

4. There should be some handwringing because we have rights and responsibilities in collision in this question. Also, your post has a moral foundation to it, so I don't think you can fairly condemn moralizing if that's even a thing. 

If you want to step aside from that whole thing where you don't want to moralize at all... Just talk about effects of decisions and cultural norms. Mcluhan did that with media, just talked about the effects of changes not whether it was good or bad. 

5. That's an accurate assessment of our ability to look at the big picture.  If we had better intellectual leadership, that wouldn't be. 

6. I agree with this. Part of that is to accept that your subjectivity will always color your conclusions. 

7. You are as free as anyone. But that means that free people will come to the conclusion that you're wrong. I don't think you can rightly say, you are not free because your conclusion was different from mine. 

8. Agreed.  But each political ideology has trouble dealing with the collision between rights and responsibilities.

9. A tiny earth population of a few million, with a high birth rate to sustain it... That's where we are headed.

 

I was curious so I clicked to view your reply.  You're still on ignore, but your post was thoughtful so I'll reply.

1a.  The issue is the basic math of it all.  We have decades of trending reproduction/demographic numbers plus  projections.   Unless something very dramatic happens to reverse trends then it's clear that western civilization will cease to exist eventually.  Am I a Nazi to not be thrilled about that, or sound the alarm?   A Nazi is about racial superiority and domination, not mere existential subsistence which is a natural response for people of any society ever.

1b.  Then is humanity doomed towards extinction?  If any society survives, it's the ones that reject the culture and technology to the extent we've embraced them.   Arab and African societies may inherit the earth based on the math, hard to say.

3.  If you were to go to a party with many of your family and friends and while discussing women's rights you said that a woman's place was primarily in the home to raise children or that abortion was morally wrong, what would the reaction be?  Many would be angry, many would call (or think) you a sexist, and guilt you into complying with their views.

4.  I don't deny having morals.

5.  We do have intellectual leadership.  But is it any good?  Are we led by the smartest and wisest, or the loudest who can scream in your ear to enforce compliance?   The answer seems clear to me.

6.  The debate here is really as you say, rights vs responsibilities.  What do we value, and why?  Having 2 children seems ideal and reasonable, but the biological laws of nature that govern the survival of every mammal species says it's not.  Therein lies the rub.

7.   The facts of the situation before us aren't wrong.   Math doesn't lie.  What people choose to value is up to them.  But have they even heard the arguments, without the cries of "conspiracy theory!!".  See how compliance is enforced through guilt and other methods?

8.  Again, a conflict in values, and difficult choices to be made.

9.  Maybe, who knows.

Edited September 22, 2025 by Moonlight Graham

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I was curious so I clicked to view your reply.  You're still on ignore, but your post was thoughtful so I'll reply.

Before I read your response, and respond in kind... I'm I was surprised to see that I'm on Ignore with you.   So I'll comment on that First: 

We had long exchanges on the other board, and while I would find myself exasperated sometimes, I always felt that you were one of the most intellectually honest posters on these boards. 

I think that we fall into the weeds when the topics revolve around chuds and wokies, which don't actually exist.  At least not on these boards.

[Michael Hardner]

9 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

 

1a.    Unless something very dramatic happens to reverse trends then it's clear that western civilization will cease to exist eventually.   

1b.  Then is humanity doomed towards extinction?   

2.  If you were to go to a party with many of your family and friends and while discussing women's rights you said that a woman's place was primarily in the home to raise children or that abortion was morally wrong, what would the reaction be?  Many would be angry, many would call (or think) you a sexist, and guilt you into complying with their views.

3.  I don't deny having morals.

4.  We do have intellectual leadership.  But is it any good?  Are we led by the smartest and wisest, or the loudest who can scream in your ear to enforce compliance?   The answer seems clear to me.

5.  Having 2 children seems ideal and reasonable, but the biological laws of nature that govern the survival of every mammal species says it's not.  Therein lies the rub.

6.  See how compliance is enforced through guilt and other methods?

1a. 1b. Again - not the "West" but ... yes... all humanity is indeed mathematically set to be extinct.  Let me Google it... ok, nothing in the way of estimates that I can find.  

Theoretically, yes, we could go extinct.  Except: the conditions that impacted the birthrate, negatively, are not permanent.  It's pretty clear to see a future where the benefits of having children increase and the birth rate rises to sustainability.

2. But that's not how you framed it.  You framed it as people being shamed for their choices.  If my wife went to a party and said she wanted to stay at home, and expressed her feelings then I'm 100% my liberal/LOC friends would be happy for her.  They wouldn't shame her for her choices, because - let's face it - although work is rewarding nobody (even people who don't want kids) really think that working is the pinnacle of human happiness.  We have ALL bought into the concept of individuals "pursuing happiness"

3. Nor should you, but why talk about "moralist hand-wringing" then ?  Is it something more specific than just moralizing ?  Honest question.

4. And to me also.  We have shouters and screechers... and doomsayers all around. 

5. "the biological laws of nature that govern the survival of every mammal species says it's not"

     I think so.  But... well, hunter-gatherer people used to conceive way more children, but many died at a young age.  Once that was "fixed" via better nutrition and a more relaxing lifestyle based on agriculture and trade... people had many more children.  Then with birth control and the cost of child rearing increase the number went down again.

6. "Other methods" may be the key here.  For our family, we would have had 4 kids but for the fact that we needed a good ten years to go back to school and get started in a career in order to be able to afford a home.  I have never heard of someone guilting someone for HAVING children.  More often, the grandparents apply passive-aggressive pressure to HAVE a child or two.

I want to throw a bone to an ideology that, to me, stands behind your assertions: a period of history wherein working people had stable employment, and the opportunity to raise children did occur in the 20th century and it seems to be a kind of ideal that people (people all over the world) are attracted to.

If you ask me, all aspects of culture are built upon the political economy of their times.  So ... 20-30 years after WW2, North America was challenged by globalism and decided to make the middle class pay, so that they could offer a more attractive option for people to invest there.

So, juicing the economy with higher immigration, deregulation, tax cuts and reduced services has been the order of the day for 40-50 years as a result.

There's no easy way around these conditions.

[Gaétan]

We must offer migrants the best opportunities and accept the lesser ones ourselves, because God commands us to treat the stranger better than we treat ourselves.

Genèse 19:6–8 :

"Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him. He said, 'Please, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. Look, I have two daughters who have never known a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do to them as you please. But do nothing to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.

The future belongs to those who sacrifice themselves for others, not to those who sacrifice others for themselves.

Edited September 22, 2025 by Gaétan

[CDN1]

11 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

BREAKING NEWS:  Visible Minorities don’t experience discrimination if they’re immigrants

Omg even for the National Post this article is bad

 

Let's see the interracial crime stats then. Why are you scared of transparency? Liberals want no part of that. Their anti-White narrative would quickly evaporate.

Edited September 22, 2025 by CDN1

[eyeball]

12 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1b.  Then is humanity doomed towards extinction?  If any society survives, it's the ones that reject the culture and technology to the extent we've embraced them.   Arab and African societies may inherit the earth based on the math, hard to say.

I doubt climate change math bodes well for that scenario.

I doubt humans will go extinct we'll just be greatly reduced in numbers is all.

'Society' will be a global network of the enclaves and centers of high tech that the wealthiest humans are quietly building in bunkers.

Everything else will go back to some sort of nature.

https://robbreport.com/shelter/celebrity-homes/wealthy-homeowners-building-luxury-survivalist-bunkers-1236905429/

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#Crime_statistics

Someone asked for some interracial crime statistics.

Based on the numbers on the wikipedia page above, and assuming populations of 41M African-Americans and 212M Caucasian Americans, black folks are 3X more likely to be murdered by a white person than a white person is to be murdered by a black person (2 murders per million and 6 per million respectively)

 

 

[LinkSoul60]

As I look through this thread about DEI it's only about ethnicity....which is only a part of DEI.  I don't see any comments/notes of age, gender, sexual orientation, religion, disabilities, etc which DEI is all about....Diversity, Equity and Inclusion for everyone.

The false Trump narrative that the loyal minions have bought into and seen in this thread is that it's about EI, Black, Chinese,etc taking jobs away from white people.  Breaking news.....it's not and why some of the world's largest and most influential companies like Apple, Microsoft, JPM, Costco, etc, etc continue to support the initiative.  Basically they told Trump to go f*ck himself.....which in itself I commended them for.

 

 

[Venandi]

3 hours ago, CDN1 said:

Let's see the interracial crime stats then. Why are you scared of transparency?

This doesn't tell the whole story but The Toronto Police Service most wanted is linked below. 

https://www.tps.ca/organizational-chart/specialized-operations-command/detective-operations/investigative-services/homicide/most-wanted/

Years ago, people familiar with some of the cultures suggested that if we wanted to import people from specific areas that the immigrants would require extra support and that the support required came at a cost. The also warned not to ghettoize these folks and warehouse them vertically in ethnic enclaves.

They never said don't do it, they said be cautious and be thoughtful about the "how" side of the equation. 

They were ignored, they were vilified, called racist xenophobes, white nationalists and any number of other names that people like Herb can think up after a 6 pack... in short, we collectively cheaped out and failed to do it right. 

Herbs not going to believe that and I know he won't track down the mothers of the folks in the pictures... if he did, he'd see a common theme developing.

As long as the Herbs of the world dance naked on rooftops in the moonlight and refuse to acknowledge that they were (at least) partially responsible for those pictures turning out the way they did, it will continue and get worse as momentum and collection rate increases.

It doesn't get better by itself... 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2025 by Venandi

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Venandi said:

Years ago, people familiar with some of the cultures suggested that if we wanted to import people from specific areas that the immigrants would require extra support and that the support required came at a cost.

I'm pretty sure that cost was supposed to come in the form of less economic disparity for everyone ie, in the form of better wages stemming from investments in productivity, education, skills development, innovation etc.

Instead economic disparity is rising in Canada, reaching record highs in 2025 according to Statistics Canada.

1 hour ago, Venandi said:

It doesn't get better by itself... 

I doubt it gets better at all now. Only worse.

Edited September 22, 2025 by eyeball

[Army Guy]

On 9/21/2025 at 1:00 PM, Michael Hardner said:

1. Not really.  Trust a Canadian when he tells you that.

2. Stop bringing your homeland issues here.  We are dealing with immigration in a Canadian way, not with your fear mongering...

Are you suggesting that Citizen is not a Canadian ? What standard are we using here ?

How about you stop suggesting he is not Canadian and does not have the best interests of Canada at heart....This is his Canadian opinion and has a fellow Canadian you have no right to tell him anything different...

Canada is not dealing with immigration very well ,like everything the liberals have touched it is broken... we have opened the doors and welcomed anyone that wanted to come in, be it good, bad or criminal it make no difference... 

For a guy that used to be the voice of reason on this forum , you missed all of that in your response here...

 

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

As I look through this thread about DEI it's only about ethnicity....which is only a part of DEI.  I don't see any comments/notes of age, gender, sexual orientation, religion, disabilities, etc which DEI is all about....Diversity, Equity and Inclusion for everyone.

The false Trump narrative that the loyal minions have bought into and seen in this thread is that it's about EI, Black, Chinese,etc taking jobs away from white people.  Breaking news.....it's not and why some of the world's largest and most influential companies like Apple, Microsoft, JPM, Costco, etc, etc continue to support the initiative.  Basically they told Trump to go f*ck himself.....which in itself I commended them for.

 

SO this is really about sticking it to trump....How do we explain DEI here in Canada, is it all about sticking it to the conservatives, or whom ever ?

What does DEI bring to the table?, and why is it better than hiring the best Candidate for the job...

[Army Guy]

On 9/21/2025 at 10:39 AM, Barquentine said:

There are a lot of factors causing those problems....

 

So it was ok for you but not for others? Hypocritical much?

Paranoid much? Or just don't like people who aren't just like you?

Proudly advancing backwards! Tonight you're gonna party like it's 1949...

Canada poulation 1960 - 18,000,000
Canada, 1960 approximately 5,663,000 employed.

Canada's population today is about 40,000,000. In 2023, there were approximately 20.3 million people employed in Canada.

How is that possible if immigrants are just "taking jobs" from us Canadians?

Why don't you enlighten us....even the liberal party has admitted our immigration levels are much to high...

Here in Canada we don't have different levels of citizenship....once your Canadians your a Canadian some have dual citizenship, but all Canadians voices are on the same level.. Just a note we are all products of immigrants , unless your native 

There are many examples of immigration gone bad, by the people you input into the system, take a look a the problems Europe is having , then compare them to Poland....

Immigration is not the only system that is flawed, there are many ways to get in to this country, immigration is just one, refugee status , foreign students, foreign workers etc . So yes currently we have a huge % of Canadian students and young people that can't find jobs i'd love to hear why that is....and how bringing non Canadians into this country is not effecting those numbers...

 

[LinkSoul60]

Just now, Army Guy said:

SO this is really about sticking it to trump....How do we explain DEI here in Canada, is it all about sticking it to the conservatives, or whom ever ?

What does DEI bring to the table?, and why is it better than hiring the best Candidate for the job...

It's not about Trump at all but he's the one who started the negative connotations around DEI to become part of the narrative for his minions.  I have no idea why you bring sticking it to conservatives into this?

You totally miss the point of DEI.  What does it bring to the table..... It's about including everyone regardless of their ethnicity, religion, age, gender, sexual orientation, etc, etc.... and hiring the best candidates from that pool of candidates. It's not about hiring brown, black, yellow or white...it's about giving everyone an equal opportunity, and hiring the best candidate available.

 

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

1. Are you suggesting that Citizen is not a Canadian ?  

 

2. For a guy that used to be the voice of reason on this forum , you missed all of that in your response here...

 

1. I'm being cheeky and ironic. If it's offensive, I apologize. Certainly someone can see the thickness of irony around a new Canadian being against immigration. You get that right?

2. You're right.  I'll stop.  I withdraw my statements.

[Army Guy]

25 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I'm being cheeky and ironic. If it's offensive, I apologize. Certainly someone can see the thickness of irony around a new Canadian being against immigration. You get that right?

2. You're right.  I'll stop.  I withdraw my statements.

I see the irony, but i thought all Canadians were created equal regardless of how much time they have as Canadian...

Thank you. I do appreciate it.

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I'm being cheeky and ironic. If it's offensive, I apologize. Certainly someone can see the thickness of irony around a new Canadian being against immigration. You get that right?

2. You're right.  I'll stop.  I withdraw my statements.

Again, I am not new Canadian. I have said it again and again I am a 40 year citizen of Canada and raised here and have contributed for 25 years to the treasury with pleasure but since I was not born here you and a few others referred to me as foreigner or immigrant. You even told me not to bring my homeland's problems to this forum. I thought my homeland is Canada where I was raised and contributed for decades.

My comments on immigration and the risks it carries without selectivity on quality and quantity was not because I was a foreigner or new Canadian and did not care about the future of Canada but totally the opposite. There is no irony here. Not being born here does not necessarily mean one has to support unconditional/uncontrolled immigration.

Edited September 22, 2025 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

 

take a look a the problems Europe is having , then compare them to Poland....

 

 

Excellent example. Compare Poland with France, Germany or UK and see the difference. That said I don't approve of polish strict/racist policy in Canada because we need immigrants to pay pensioners and social programs but lets be selective as who we bring in and in a quantity not cause harm to those already here.