Halifax: Mob of 'middle eastern men' brutally beat lesbian couple out celebrating a birthday

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, Legato said:

The colour of their skin is not the point, it's a third world norm being practiced in a first world country that needs to be brought to peoples attention. That is what the OP did and you twisted it into a skin colour problem.

What does Middle Eastern mean then?  How would you know that other than their look...

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

you acknowledge "environment".

So, if I shoot someone to get gang stripes in the street, this is due to my environment? Or does at some level, my choice push me to doing so? Yes, I grew up in an environment which was very violent, but does this justify me slapping the wife for not making my sandwich right?

Or again is there a choice that was made? 

What I am pointing out, is the excuse people use to justify certain behaviors. 

There are no excuses for some and in my opinion, it should be called out as a result. 

I know tons of Somalian people who have great careers, homes and education levels.

I just wouldn't buy it that being Somalian would stop you from opportunity. Choosing crime, will.

Now, if you were like those I grew up with who prided themselves on sticking up white people or selling crack, then your downfall is self inflicted. Has nothing to do with those you are blaming.

Your environment subjects you to it, but you make a conscious choice to join it.

Saying its not a choice to me, is like believing that my love of horror flicks will ultimately result in me mutilating someone due to the influence.

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

When do we have a right or duty to use this logical construction called generalization?

There is no right, but if you behave like the worst portions of your demographic, you put everyone in a bad light. People will comment on it, using stereotypes whether you like it or not.

Welcome to being a racial minority.

This is a package deal.

I dated Caucasian women, and at telling some I was Haitian, was immediately grilled to find out how many other women that I had, by some.

Haitian men are notorious for cheating, as this is highly accepted and even encouraged in our culture.

My dad was a serial cheater. Most men I grew up around that shared my roots.

 Nobody wants to call out the cultural beliefs that are wrong, as this is deemed as racist.

So many skirt on the issue. 

Maybe its just me, but am blunt. I ask directly. 

If we can't talk openly and constructively, you can't expect certain behaviors to stop.

Imagine. Nobody wants to pressure Hamas socially. The belief system which perpetuates violence.

Petrified at the consequences. 

Its easier to pick on Israel. Easier to call it racist.

When you point to generalization, you're pointing to political correctness.

I say point to those responsible for that behavior and call them out. If its cultural, call those out being silent.

[Nationalist]

14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The most obvious thing would be to condemn the crime without asking why the other numerous examples of these crimes NOT committed by Arabs or minorities are ever reported by this poster or in general on here.

Now go get your cap and gown.... 

Ok...why?

Look Mike...Pixie Dust has flooded our country with these people. That has produced a natural reaction of disdain by Canucks. It is rather obvious that the 2 cultures clash.

Scenes like this will continue and it's fcking Pixie-Dust who is to blame.!

[Legato]

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

What does Middle Eastern mean then?  How would you know that other than their look...

By their acts.

[CdnFox]

10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. This is a board for discussion and analysis.  If the morality of the criminal act isn't in question, and why would it be, why must I virtue signal in that?

How should I know why? Why do you pretend to be a conservative when you're very clearly not? I'm afraid you're going to need somebody with more professional qualifications than me to explain your actions.

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2. Until now I assume.

Exactly. So when you say that somehow we give it preferential treatment what you mean is it was mentioned once.

So what's the real problem here? It does not jive with your liberal ideology to allow criticism of anything from that culture or religion.

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3. Have you posted anti LGBTQ hate crimes and expected me to comment on it?  

I have indeed posted about other lgbtq hate crime issues and I had no expectation of you to comment on this one either. It was your choice to do so and your choice was to ignore the crime or the issue and attack me personally in order to obfuscate on behalf of the ideology you prefer

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You tagged in an ad hominem there... needs a napkin...

Says the guy who began all of this saying that they could dismiss my argument because I must be some sort of racist

It's gotten to the point where your hypocrisy is your defining characteristic.

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Ok, then let's go THERE.  Muslims committed a crime, let's say. 

ok

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Let's be clear that people don't generally post anti LGBTQ crimes on here.  The idea seems to be that we can just assume that ME people (?) need special attention on this.

 

The fact is there aren't a lot of lgbtq crimes reported in the papers. However, I have personally posted a number of articles about how prejudice and violence towards The letter people is on the rise. So when there is a story, yes I print it I bring it to people's attention and discuss it. I have even pointed out that this kind of thing can be brought about by policies which isolate and put gay people on a pedestal such as gay pride month because it makes other people feel as if they are less important or irrelevant.

So no. You are entirely wrong. I have posted such stories, I have commented about how the rise and such violence is from sources other than muslim or Middle Eastern culture.

 

You just called me a homophobe and a racist for absolutely no reason. You're thinking is 100% unjustified. The only reason you did it was to explain why you are dismissing the story instead of addressing it. Which would certainly be a liberal thing for you to do (see? I point it out all the time). 

[Michael Hardner]

15 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

 

1. Your environment subjects you to it, but you make a conscious choice to join it.

 

2. Welcome to being a racial minority.

 

3. When you point to generalization, you're pointing to political correctness.

 

1. Pretty obviously true.

2. 😥

3. Sounds like you're saying that it's not right but understandable.  I would say that about the reaction to some general statements too.  There's no easy rules there.

6 minutes ago, Legato said:

By their acts.

? I can tell someone is Middle Eastern because they're commiting a crime?

 

I'm not understanding that, sorry.

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. How should I know why?

2. Why do you pretend to be a conservative when you're very clearly not? 

3. You just called me a homophobe and a racist for absolutely no reason. 

1. Well ... You're the poster pointing out that I didn't condemn the crime 🤔

2. I am conservative.  I respect people's identities on here.

3. No, I clearly asked you to draw your own conclusion.

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

😥

As a minority, I live down the dumb s*** others do who share my skin color and culture.

My parents as a result made sure I wouldn't live up to the stereotype. 

Stereotypes are generalizations, but are often used in comedy because they are funny for a reason.

If I make a joke about my wife and karaoke, it would be funny if done well, because many Filipinos love karaoke. Its an integral part of their culture. Yes. My wife loves karaoke.

Filipinos love repurposing s***. Again, funny because its true for many.

Comedian Ron Josol pointed out to a broken microwave in his household as a child, becoming a cabinet for storage. 

You see a cap for laundry soap, my wife sees a sponge holder for a sink. Peanut butter jar? To her, makeup brush holder. 

Sorry, but there are so many terrorist acts being committed by the minority in a community and when this is the case. Radio silence. 

Return fire is heavy handed kind if like Israel on Gaza, and it seems like everyone is out denouncing the violence.

So is violence bad, or is violence against their people bad?

How is pointing out the discrepancy bad?

19 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sounds like you're saying that it's not right but understandable.

No am saying that the generalizations are made because they are true.

How many they are true for, is statistically debatable, however.

I see a group of people from a country where women have no rights, strike and beat women outnumbering them 10 to 2, and am not shocked. I quickly think to myself, "sounds about right".

Shocking, would be a woke white vegan in leggings (male), pull this off. That's f***ed up. I never would have seen it coming.

If they identified as "they/them", I would need to turn off my TV, to reassess my life priorities. I would be that confused.

I see a car bomb go off on the news, and the name of the bomber is Ahmed, Mohammad or something of the sort, big beard, unibrow and "alahu akbar" is their chant again...most go on about their business. Why is that? Racism?

Or just maybe this jack** is living up to the very stereotype many have in their minds when seeing people like this.

Is the news showing this reinforcing that they all do this, or rather that the smallest demographic of your culture is by far the loudest?

The LGBTQ community is going through this with the trans part of their movement.

[Zeitgeist]

I think the problem here is that either we agree that ethnic/cultural/racial background can be included for the perps of any crime or we don’t.  Reporting race only when white or only when brown is the issue.  I think it’s certainly pertinent when trying to find an aggressor based on physical description.  But what also goes with that is the probability that racial data of crimes committed will be reported, and I think we have to accept that, whether or not people like what the data illustrates.

We do know that there is also plenty of data used to justify why some groups do more crime than others, such as income and education levels.  I think we have to live with that data as well.

Data can be interpreted in different ways.  My biggest concern is when assumptions and opinions about data are presented as facts, which isn’t to say that some opinions aren’t better and more compelling than others.  Some interpretations are very compelling.  

Edited July 3 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. No am saying that the generalizations are made because they are true.

 

1. I think that people are justified in reacting negatively to them, still.  There's an aspect of "in conclusion" when you make an unqualified generalization.

One reaction is to avoid, to be silent, politically correct.  I get that you don't agree with that approach entirely, and I get why.  But there's no third way, today.  You either say such things or don't.

[Goddess]

17 hours ago, herbie said:

Te WHY in why it was posted is because it will help portray Middle Eastern people in a bad light. Otherwise the crime would matter, not the ethnicity.

57 Muslim-ruled countries treat women horribly - beatings, rapings, killings, no rights, no education, etc.

Do you think their views on women magically change when they step on Canadian soil?  They don't.

Remember the guy who beat the shit out of his wife with a hockey stick after arriving in Canada and his excuse was "he didn't know" it was wrong?

If you think the religion and the ethnicity haws nothing to do with it, you're dead wrong.

[CdnFox]

51 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Well ... You're the poster pointing out that I didn't condemn the crime 🤔

How would recognizing that fact make me aware of the ...  lets say "workings"..  of your brain and your motivatios?

I can point out dogs roll in crap, but i have no idea why they thing it's a fun thing to do.  

 

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2. I am conservative.  I respect people's identities on here.

You are not even a little bit conservative, and god knows i'm not the only one who has told you that. And  you frequently don't respect people's identities on here. 

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3. No, I clearly asked you to draw your own conclusion.

You clearly made your point that you believe i'm a racist or homophobe or both.  And this is the kind of dishonesty i'm talking about.  You added nothing to the conversation and instead attacked me. And you went on to make false statements suggesting somehow I give 'preferential treatment' to 'brown crime' when i've not posted a story involving specifically brown or muslim or syrian crime previously. 

Now you're trying to backpeddal but sorry, that's something you did and you said. 

 

[Goddess]

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

I stated my reason for posting it.

For some reason - the far lefties DO NOT want events like this beating to be spoken about or even known.

These are the crimes they fervently believe should be utterly ignored BECAUSE OF THE PERPETRATORS ETHNICITY AND/OR RELIGION.

It's the soft bigotry of low expectations.

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. I am conservative.

Are you?  I've been here awhile now and I don't actually know what you stand for or even if you stand for anything.

You seem more far left Liberal.....there's nothing you don't defend or accept.

Not wanting "brown" crimes talked about or linked in any way to religious beliefs, culture or ethnicity - is very, very Liberal.

[Black Dog]

26 minutes ago, Goddess said:

For some reason - the far lefties DO NOT want events like this beating to be spoken about or even known.

These are the crimes they fervently believe should be utterly ignored BECAUSE OF THE PERPETRATORS ETHNICITY AND/OR RELIGION.

It's the soft bigotry of low expectations.

The perpetrators were also all men.

[Goddess]

3 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

The perpetrators were also all men.

True.

There was some burqua'ed woman who tried to machete people in a Canadian Tire a few years back and I remember some here also did not want it talked about or linked to religious beliefs, either.

A few years back, the excuse was that these ones were just "mentally ill".

That argument seems to have died out a bit.

 

[Black Dog]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

True.

There was some burqua'ed woman who tried to machete people in a Canadian Tire a few years back and I remember some here also did not want it talked about or linked to religious beliefs, either.

A few years back, the excuse was that these ones were just "mentally ill".

That argument seems to have died out a bit.

Let's be real you wouldn't care one bit about this incident of it were a mob of white boys.

[Goddess]

Just now, Black Dog said:

Let's be real you wouldn't care one bit about this incident of it were a mob of white boys.

🙄

Ooooo, you caught me.

Yes, I believe mobs of white boys should be allowed to beat and rape lesbians at will, no consequences.

[CrazyCanuck89]

19 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It's pretty tranparent when you only care about making cheap political points rather than dealing with the actual crime.

Is there some recent news article about a group of white guys beating up a lesbian that I missed? No?

So much for you lefty sticking up for gays and lesbians. You're happy and fine with seeing them getting beaten up as long as it's a group that you approve of. Disgusting

I'm going to have to agree with Michael.  Would you be just as disgusted, had this been white people of the Christian faith?

[Goddess]

5 minutes ago, CrazyCanuck89 said:

I'm going to have to agree with Michael.  Would you be just as disgusted, had this been white people of the Christian faith?

I think we all agree the crime itself is heinous.  Yes?

Perhaps the argument is about  "What is the motive behind it?"

If it was white Christian boys, and people guessed the motivation was rooted in religious beliefs, would you still be defending them?

 

 

Edited July 3 by Goddess

[eyeball]

I'd be particularly disgusted if It came out that the attackers were secular and irreligious.

Aren't these sorts of attacks usually motivated by the sense that God hates the people that are targetted? 

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, CrazyCanuck89 said:

I'm going to have to agree with Michael.  Would you be just as disgusted, had this been white people of the Christian faith?

I have posted gay violence stories in the past that didn't involve brown people.  As i noted there just aren't many of them, in fact i can't remember reading in recent history about a group of white males of any religion beating lesbians. 

Lets be honest - your reason for thinking like that is not based on my previous postings or record or the like, it's based on your prejudice regarding me. And i suspect towards those who express concerns about the cultural realities of some other countries. 

It's a serious issue and shoudln't be dismissed because "any brown talk bad" or the like. 

[eyeball]

If cultural religious sentiments against homosexuality are a motivating factor the attackers would appear to be reflecting a value that is slso shared by some other Canadians.

Almost exclusively conservative ones I might add.

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

in fact i can't remember reading in recent history about a group of white males of any religion beating lesbians. 

Probably because most males think lesbians are hot.

In any case the odds such a group would be overtly right wing are are much higher.

[Legato]

5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

In any case the odds such a group would be overtly right wing are are much higher.

Why?