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The health care system is failing; give us choice.


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"From patients dying on waiting lists to “critically ill” patients being asked to share a single hospital bed , our system is in crisis. A recent Leger poll found that 64 per cent of Canadians believe it needs a “major change” while only five per cent felt more money was the solution. The public overwhelmingly understands that 30 years of throwing money at the system hasn’t worked."

Opinion: When Pierre Poilievre knocks on your door, demand health care choice (msn.com)

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4 hours ago, blackbird said:

"From patients dying on waiting lists to “critically ill” patients being asked to share a single hospital bed , our system is in crisis. A recent Leger poll found that 64 per cent of Canadians believe it needs a “major change” while only five per cent felt more money was the solution. The public overwhelmingly understands that 30 years of throwing money at the system hasn’t worked."

Opinion: When Pierre Poilievre knocks on your door, demand health care choice (msn.com)

Thanks to the leftist liberal massive third world legal and illegal immigration policy this is what is killing our medicare system. If an illegal suddenly has an heart attack, they will be taken to the hospital immediately and serviced first over a born Canadian citizen waiting and needing an operation. The Marxist WEF dictator in Ottawa has said that massive immigration and diversity is our strength is all bullshit. Massive immigration and diversity will be our demise. 😒

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4 hours ago, Black Dog said:

"Choice" here means rich people get to choose the best care money can buy and the poor get scraps.

Looks like many people get scraps from the public health care system.  Why not allow people who can afford it to get private care in Canada and eliminate the waiting lists in the public system.  Then nobody would get "scraps".

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57 minutes ago, taxme said:

Thanks to the leftist liberal massive third world legal and illegal immigration policy this is what is killing our medicare system. If an illegal suddenly has an heart attack, they will be taken to the hospital immediately and serviced first over a born Canadian citizen waiting and needing an operation. The Marxist WEF dictator in Ottawa has said that massive immigration and diversity is our strength is all bullshit. Massive immigration and diversity will be our demise. 😒

Yes and Socialized medical care and banning any kind of private care is turning out to be a disaster for Canadians.  Yet we have people who still defend it, especially the NDP.  Just mention a side by side system of private and public and they go nuts.  Let everyone suffer equally is their motto.   

Some leftists would fight any kind of public/private mixture even if it helped to fix the failing public healthcare system.  They would rather see Canadians die than give up their failed Socialist ideology that is a disaster.

It is time Canadians wake up to the disastrous Socialist health care system that is killing people.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, herbie said:

You have a choice. Go somewhere else and pay them for it.

The funny thing is people like you don't even want people who can afford it to pay for private care which would take the pressure of the public system and help eliminate the waiting lists.  

Well go ahead and die on your sword fighting the truth that Socialism is a disaster.  All it does is make every one who needs medical care suffer and those with lots of money will fly somewhere else to get the care they need.  That is a dumb system. 

A better system would be a parallel public and private system which gave people who have some money to purchase health care insurance to utilize the private system and take the pressure off the failing public system so they can eliminate waiting lists and over work in hospitals and ERs.  Everyone would benefit from such a system.

Edited by blackbird
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1 hour ago, blackbird said:

The funny thing is people like you don't even want people who can afford it to pay for private care which would take the pressure of the public system and help eliminate the waiting lists.  

 

Maybe I'm not bright enough to see this at first glance  so I'll be the dummy who asks the question:

If medical personnel shortages are the primary contributor to wait times, I don't see how the creation of a parallel system with personnel drawn from the original one alleviates it.  

I'm not opposed to it, but If the number of patients, the number of doctors and the associated workload is quantifiable, and support facilities (operating theatres, hospital beds etc) are finite, how does shuffling doctors from public to private and private to public decrease wait times?

If the concept is based on the assumption that a private system would be more streamlined and efficient by virtue of a profit motive and case load efficiency would increase as a result of that, then I don't see how that happens in less time than it would take to step up training and streamline processes within our existing system.

And even if the profit motive increased access to infrastructure (over time), wouldn't the ratio of those able to afford private care vs those who couldn't remain (essentially) the same thus setting an availability ceiling of its own?

If you have 10 airplanes and 10 pilots, paying half of the pilots more by raising the cost of a ticket for half of the passengers doesn't make the planes fly faster, burn less gas, or need less maintenance... does it?  

I'd say you need bigger faster aircraft with more available seat miles and the limiting factor would be the number of people willing/able to pay big bucks for cold food and hot flight attendants.

As it stands now, there are already people jumping the cue by having preferred access, college and professional athletes don't wait 3 years for knee surgery, neither do military members treated outside the military medical system. You see the specialist next week, not next year and everybody else waits longer as a result of it. No?

Edited by Venandi
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Venandi said:

f medical personnel shortages are the primary contributor to wait times, I don't see how the creation of a parallel system with personnel drawn from the original one alleviates it.  

That is the big question that is being debated.  Die-hard Socialist believe in banning any private insurance or private care and think public health care is the only system we should have.

While people debate, Canadians are dying on waiting lists and for lack of urgent care.

I don't see how this is right.  Canada is the only country in the world that goes out of its way to deny allowing private care.

I see this as a violation of basic human rights.  Even if a person is willing to pay something and has a home worth over a millions dollars and a good pension or lots of money invested, he does not have the option in Canada to get quick health care in all cases.  

One reason why there should be a parallel private health care system is public systems are by their nature inefficient and bureaucratic.  In Canada, the public system is strongly dominated by powerful unions who are only looking after their members.

A private system could be competitive and have some motivation for faster and more efficient service.  If the people running it do not produce, they can be more easily let go and replaced.  One of the problems with the public system now is it is very expensive for a doctor to operate his practice.

“Canada is the only country in the world where it is illegal to obtain private health insurance when there are long wait-lists. That surely says something,” said Dr. Brian Day, medical director of Cambie Surgery Centre in Vancouver and past president of the Canadian Medical Association (CMA).

Day, whose private clinic in Vancouver has been up and running since June 1996, has long been advocating for a parallel private system in the province.

He launched a legal challenge to the B.C. Medicare Protection Act, saying wait times in the public health system are too long and stopping patients from paying for those services outside the public system violates their rights.

2:35Code Blue: Canada experiencing shortage of family doctors

In July, the B.C. Court of Appeal dismissed the Vancouver surgeon’s challenge.

However, in their ruling, the judges accepted that the act’s provisions “deprived some patients’ right to security of the person by preventing them from accessing private care when the public system had failed to provide timely medical treatment.”

Days says the funding model needs to change in the country, adding that the “state-run monopoly” is killing Canadians.

“The promise was that we would have a universal system where everyone was treated, but people are dying on wait-lists,” he said."

"

Canada’s health-care system is lagging behind some other high-income nations, according to some reports.

A 2021 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked Canada’s health-care system 10th overall out of 11 countries. Norway was top-ranked followed by the Netherlands, Australia and the United Kingdom."

‘Dying on wait-lists’: Could private health-care solve Canada’s ER ‘crisis’? - National | Globalnews.ca

Canada is a wealthy country in terms of natural resources.  Why are we ranked 10th out of 11 countries in health care?  It doesn't make sense unless you consider the bureaucratic and political part of it.  That is what runs it in Canada.  So it has to be the problem.  Canada has a federal government and ten provincial governments plus territories.  So having a public system means it is by nature very complex.  That may be the problem.  Governments by their nature are often very slow and inefficient.  There are many demands placed on government for all kinds of services and funding.  Public health care is just one of many demands on the agenda.

What we have is a system that denies individual freedom of choice and forces Canadians to accept long waiting lists because there are people and politicians who believe Socialism is a gift from God.  It certainly is not.  More likely from the pit of Hell.  Many Canadians are paying the price for the ignorance of some.

 

 

Edited by blackbird
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2 hours ago, herbie said:

Oh you're not subverting health care, you're 'taking the pressure off', eh?

Move to the states if everything here is so shitty in your view.

Move to China or Cuba yourself.   Norway and many other countries are rated far ahead of Canada for health care.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Venandi said:

how does shuffling doctors from public to private and private to public decrease wait times?

I am not suggesting doctors be shuffled from public to private.  The system needs to change in a huge way.  Private systems are run by private companies supported by investors who are going to make a return on their investment.  So government would need to get out of the way and let them operate.  The public health care crisis is caused by government intrusion or Socialism poking it's long nose in every detail of health care.

How doctors are obtained from other countries and how they are educated in Canada would probably have to change too.

The whole system is a mess.

6 minutes ago, herbie said:

Sorry buddy I fix things, I don't toss them out.

 

You can't fix a flawed system.  Canada's health care system has been failing for years.  Why hasn't it been fixed if that is possible?

Socialism needs to be tossed.  It is the problem.  It caters to powerful unions that also create a huge problem.  The power of unions needs to be cut as well.  They cater to the chosen (members) at the expense of the public.

 

Edited by blackbird
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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Venandi said:

If the concept is based on the assumption that a private system would be more streamlined and efficient by virtue of a profit motive and case load efficiency would increase as a result of that, then I don't see how that happens in less time than it would take to step up training and streamline processes within our existing system.

All we need to do is look at how the federal government has mismanaged some of their departments, wasted millions of dollars and doled out millions of dollars on questionable or scam contracts.  The RCMP should be looking into a lot of things.  Government has proven it is inefficient, wasteful and unable to control spending properly.  We can expect they have done the same thing with the health care system.

"The B.C. NDP government’s election-year budget will run a record $7.9 billion deficit, almost double last year’s, fueled by $6.2 billion more in spending to pay for a new B.C. Hydro rebate, more money back for families and a program to fund invitro fertilization for people trying to have a baby."

Flipping tax to cash for families: 7 ways the 2024 B.C. budget could affect you (msn.com)

(We need to remember this is an election year in B.C. and it is time for the NDP to hand out goodies.)

The B.C. NDP is running a record 7.9 billion dollar deficit this year, but the health care system is still in a crisis.  What happens to health care is in the hands of politicians who will run huge deficits to fund all kinds of things but the health care system is failing.  How is it they can't fix that?

Edited by blackbird
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13 hours ago, blackbird said:

I am not suggesting doctors be shuffled from public to private. 

But that's exactly what would happen. Why would any doctor worth his salt stay in a public system if they can make more money in the private sector? Large parts of the country, especially rural areas, already have problems attracting and retaining GPs, how the hell does a private system help them?

Quote

 

Private systems are run by private companies supported by investors who are going to make a return on their investment.  So government would need to get out of the way and let them operate.  

 

Yeah just look at how efficient the U.S. system is lol.

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18 hours ago, blackbird said:

Yes and Socialized medical care and banning any kind of private care is turning out to be a disaster for Canadians.  Yet we have people who still defend it, especially the NDP.  Just mention a side by side system of private and public and they go nuts.  Let everyone suffer equally is their motto.   

Some leftists would fight any kind of public/private mixture even if it helped to fix the failing public healthcare system.  They would rather see Canadians die than give up their failed Socialist ideology that is a disaster.

It is time Canadians wake up to the disastrous Socialist health care system that is killing people.

Not only is the health care system in Canada gone wacko but the whole dam country has gone wacko thanks to liberal socialism. It is liberal socialism that is killing this once great freedom loving country. Only a real and true conservative party government can save this country. 😇

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2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

Why would any doctor worth his salt stay in a public system if they can make more money in the private sector?

A public Socialized system has proven to be a disaster for the public.  Keeping the public system will just mean worsening medical care for Canadians and will shorten the life span of the average Canadian.  That's the problem in eastern Europe.  Some countries have a ten year shorter life span than western Europe.   

We need find ways to attract doctors to Canada and drastically speed up training them here.  Pay them more if necessary in the public system and give them lots of benefits to make it attractive.  But don't block private system and deny people who want to pay more themselves to obtain health care.  That is senseless.  Private care is an easy way to improve the health care in Canada because it allows people to contribute far more money to overall health care.

Politicians are not capable of providing a good health care system.  We can't leave it them.  It is already bad.

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

Yeah just look at how efficient the U.S. system is lol.

I never recommended we copy the U.S. system.  There are lots of countries in Europe that are far ahead of Canada in providing good health care.  We need to study their systems.  Canada is number 11 on a list of 12 advanced countries.  We need to change that.  Don't expect politicians to change things for the better.

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20 hours ago, herbie said:

Oh you're not subverting health care, you're 'taking the pressure off', eh?

Move to the states if everything here is so shitty in your view.

How about we move you to the states and we get decent health care :)  

And going and paying ourselves would be fine if we got our money back that we pay to this health system. That's a big whack of our taxes. 

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20 hours ago, blackbird said:

Well go ahead and die on your sword fighting the truth that Socialism is a disaster.  All it does is make every one who needs medical care suffer and those with lots of money will fly somewhere else to get the care they need.  That is a dumb system. 

Actually this sounds like a pretty handy way of taking pressure off the public system and alleviating suffering. When are you packing your bags? 

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3 hours ago, taxme said:

Not only is the health care system in Canada gone wacko but the whole dam country has gone wacko thanks to liberal socialism. It is liberal socialism that is killing this once great freedom loving country. Only a real and true conservative party government can save this country. 😇

I just read a headline of a new item that says a Conservative government may be blocked by the liberal appointed Senate.  If that is the case, what happened to democracy?

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34 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I just read a headline of a new item that says a Conservative government may be blocked by the liberal appointed Senate.  If that is the case, what happened to democracy?

Canada is not a democracy

Canada is a monarchy under the rule of the British Crown

the Senate was constructed by William Prince of Orange, for the purposes of constraining democracy therein

lest the French & Indian Romanists run amok in British North America

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On 5/14/2024 at 3:30 PM, Black Dog said:

"Choice" here means rich people get to choose the best care money can buy and the poor get scraps.

Are you content with the current state of the health care system?

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10 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Canada is not a democracy

Canada is a monarchy under the rule of the British Crown

the Senate was constructed by William Prince of Orange, for the purposes of constraining democracy therein

lest the French & Indian Romanists run amok in British North America

The liberals have taken over the system by loading the unelected Senate and unelected courts up to the Supreme Court.  It will be very difficult for the Conservatives to do much.

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Access to medical care is not great in my town.  The walk-in clinic is only open a few hours a day from M-F and each time they appear to only take 12 patients during those hours.  People line up in a hallway, wait for an hour or two until the clinic opens.  Then if you are one of the first 12 to arrive, you get in.  The rest are out of the door.  I met one man who arrived 2-1/2 hours before the clinic opened in order to be sure he would be admitted.

The family doctor, if one is fortunate enough to have one, can take 4 to 6 six weeks to get an appointment.

The only alternative to this situation is to go to the Emergency Room and hope you don't have to wait many hours.  I once waited six hours in the ER waiting room and during that time saw a young native man come in, who didn't seem to be in any emergency as he was playing on his smart phone in the waiting room, but he was taken in after about 20 minutes.

This is completely inadequate medical care.

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