Black Dog Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 26 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: What does this have to do with you wanting them to become a minority in a country filled with people that want them genocided? Yeah let's recreate Nazi Germany for them, great idea. What are you talking about? 73% of Israel's population are Jews, where are all these other scary Arabs coming from? Quote Look up the definition of ethnic cleansing and stop listening to Twitter. Why don't you look up all the statements by various Israeli government and military figures expressing their intention to ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 1 minute ago, Black Dog said: What are you talking about? 73% of Israel's population are Jews, where are all these other scary Arabs coming from? The "right-to-return" for the descendants of Palestinian refugees going back to the 1940's is something that most of the Arab peace proposals demand of Israel. If it were allowed, it would make Israel an Arab-majority state. The whole purpose of Israel, as they see it, is to have a Jewish-majority place to live where they're not at the mercy of the whims and attitudes of other ethnicities/religions. That historically hasn't worked well for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 5 minutes ago, Moonbox said: The "right-to-return" for the descendants of Palestinian refugees going back to the 1940's is something that most of the Arab peace proposals demand of Israel. If it were allowed, it would make Israel an Arab-majority state. The whole purpose of Israel, as they see it, is to have a Jewish-majority place to live where they're not at the mercy of the whims and attitudes of other ethnicities/religions. That historically hasn't worked well for them. Israel's transformation from a Jewish-supremacist state to one where everyone enjoys equal rights regardless of their religious or ethnic background isn't contingent upon any peace deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 Just now, Black Dog said: Israel's transformation from a Jewish-supremacist state to one where everyone enjoys equal rights regardless of their religious or ethnic background isn't contingent upon any peace deal. No, but it is contingent on the reality that their history is one of trauma, and what you call Jewish-supremacism might have something to do with what happened in the previous century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 6 minutes ago, Moonbox said: No, but it is contingent on the reality that their history is one of trauma, and what you call Jewish-supremacism might have something to do with what happened in the previous century. How's that working out for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 6 minutes ago, Black Dog said: How's that working out for them? Better than the 1940's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, Black Dog said: What are you talking about? 73% of Israel's population are Jews, where are all these other scary Arabs coming from? You said you don't want a 2 state solution, you want a single state. So they'll come from Gaza and the West Bank. To Jews yeah some Arabs are scary, like the blood thirsty jihadist Nazis in Gaza that want to murder them all and convert or kill everyone in the world who isn't Muslim. But we know you don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 16 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: You said you don't want a 2 state solution, you want a single state. So they'll come from Gaza and the West Bank. What I want is irrelevant here. Quote To Jews yeah some Arabs are scary, like the blood thirsty jihadist Nazis in Gaza that want to murder them all and convert or kill everyone in the world who isn't Muslim. But we know you don't care. I don't think that's a very good reason to murder children, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 (edited) 2 hours ago, Black Dog said: What I want is irrelevant here. Then don't bring it up next time. Quote I don't think that's a very good reason to murder children, no. Strawman and red herring much? Since you're dodging the point i'll take this as conceding you're wrong. Edited February 27 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 15 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: Then don't bring it up next time. Strawman and red herring much? Since you're dodging the point i'll take this as conceding you're wrong. Wrong about what? You can't articulate an argument at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstone Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 I like this guy's channel. He addresses a lot of different points on this lengthy conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 4 hours ago, Black Dog said: Wrong about what? You can't articulate an argument at all. You're just dodging the point in bad faith. Nice try. Thank you for conceding the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 4 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: You're just dodging the point in bad faith. Nice try. Thank you for conceding the point. I'll give you another chance: what, specifically am I wrong about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 25 minutes ago, Black Dog said: I'll give you another chance: what, specifically am I wrong about? The opinions you don't bother defending. Feel free to go back and reread our convo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 2 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: The opinions you don't bother defending. Feel free to go back and reread our convo. What opinions specifically, come on man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carepov Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 16 hours ago, Black Dog said: What opinions specifically, come on man. Perhaps your avoidance of MG's point about Hamas: On 2/26/2024 at 3:56 PM, Moonlight Graham said: You said you don't want a 2 state solution, you want a single state. So they'll come from Gaza and the West Bank. To Jews yeah some Arabs are scary, like the blood thirsty jihadist Nazis in Gaza that want to murder them all and convert or kill everyone in the world who isn't Muslim. But we know you don't care. Hamas: -Openly calls for the destruction of Israel in their constitution -Rapes women and celebrates this and other violence -Kidnaps babies and seniors -Promises to repeat the attacks of 10/7 -Rewards people and their families for killing Jews -Fires rockets into Israel -Uses civilians as human shields Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, carepov said: Perhaps your avoidance of MG's point about Hamas: Hamas: -Openly calls for the destruction of Israel in their constitution -Rapes women and celebrates this and other violence -Kidnaps babies and seniors -Promises to repeat the attacks of 10/7 -Rewards people and their families for killing Jews -Fires rockets into Israel -Uses civilians as human shields What does that have to do with the broader question of an Israeli state that isn't organized on ethno-religious lines? Seems like deflection to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 34 minutes ago, Black Dog said: What does that have to do with the broader question of an Israeli state that isn't organized on ethno-religious lines? Seems like deflection to me. Israel has a perfect right to have a state organized along ethno-religious lines because Jews have been persecuted everywhere for 2,000 years. They have a perfect right to their religion and with the antisemitism in the world against Jews, particularly from the Arabs (Muslims), they need a state where they can have a refuge and be able to defend themselves. Israel gives them that refuge and protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carepov Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 32 minutes ago, Black Dog said: What does that have to do with the broader question of an Israeli state that isn't organized on ethno-religious lines? Seems like deflection to me. No, this is central. The point is that without a strong state, all Jews in the Middle East would be ethnically cleansed or killed. Remember too that in Israel, there are 2 million Arab-Israelis with full citizenship and rights living in peace and security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 3 minutes ago, carepov said: No, this is central. The point is that without a strong state, all Jews in the Middle East would be ethnically cleansed or killed. Remember too that in Israel, there are 2 million Arab-Israelis with full citizenship and rights living in peace and security. You're suggesting that an Israeli state that doesn't afford greater rights to one ethno-religious group is inherently weak. i don't agree with that. 6 minutes ago, blackbird said: Israel has a perfect right to have a state organized along ethno-religious lines because Jews have been persecuted everywhere for 2,000 years. They have a perfect right to their religion and with the antisemitism in the world against Jews, particularly from the Arabs (Muslims), they need a state where they can have a refuge and be able to defend themselves. Israel gives them that refuge and protection. Jews are safer in Canada and the U.S.A than in Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Black Dog said: Jews are safer in Canada and the U.S.A than in Israel. Safe is a subjective term. Jews have at times been persecuted in isolated incidents in north America. They are not completely safe. Restaurants, schools, and places of worship have been shot at and vandalized with graffiti. Not much has been done about it. They have a right to their own land of Israel. That is historically their homeland. Why should they have to depend on other countries to protect them in places that are not their country. How has that worked in the past 2,000 years? It hasn't and it ended in the Holocaust where about 1/3 of Europe's Jews were murdered. Edited February 28 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 4 minutes ago, blackbird said: Possibly, but they have a right to their own land of Israel. That is historically their homeland. Why should they have to depend on other countries to protect them in places that are not their country. How has that worked in the past 2,000 year? It hasn't and it ended in the Holocaust where about 1/3 of Europe's Jews were murdered. Have you given your house to an Indigenous family yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Black Dog said: Have you given your house to an Indigenous family yet? Nonsensical comment. Who is asking anybody to give their house up? Palestinians who want to live in peace can live in peace in Israel. The problem is there are many trouble-makers and terrorists who do not want peace and think Israel has no right to exist as a state. Kids are brainwashed from a young age to be antisemites and terrorists. There is no place for such people. Edited February 28 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 minute ago, blackbird said: Nonsensical comment. Who is asking anybody to give their house up? Israel. What do you think they're doing in the West bank? What did they do in the Nakba? Quote Palestinians who want to live in peace can live in peace in Israel. As de facto second class citizens, sure. Quote The problem is there are many trouble-makers and terrorists who do not want peace and think Israel has no right to exist as a state. Kids are brainwashed from a young age to be antisemites and terrorists. There is no place for such people. Israeli kids are brainwashed into hating Arabs and believing they have a divine right to the land and are forced to join the military and enforce a brutal occupation. What about them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 5 minutes ago, Black Dog said: Israel. What do you think they're doing in the West bank? The west bank is just the area west of the Jordan River which Jordan controlled before the 67 war. After they attacked Israel in 1967, they lost that area. It is historically part of Israel. It is a major part of Israel. The term "west bank" is actually a deceptive term that makes it sound like it is not part of Israel. There are many Arabs living in Israel and many live in the area called the west bank. Arabs who want to live in peace and work in Israel can obtain Israel citizenship if they meet the criteria. But many do not want to become citizens. That is their choice. But if one is not a citizen of a country, they can't expect to receive all the benefits of citizenship. There is about 130,000 Druze Arabs that live peaceably in Israel and some serve in the IDF to defend the state. quote Originating in Egypt in the 11th century, the religious sect is an offshoot of Islam which permits no converts – either to or from the religion – and no intermarriage. What sets the tightly knit community, whose mother tongue is Arabic, apart from other minority communities within Israel’s borders is their fierce national pride. Druze men over 18 have been conscripted to the IDF since 1957 and often rise to positions of high rank, while many build careers in the police and security forces. After almost 23 years of service, Abdallah, the deputy commander of the 300th Baram Regional Brigade, was a prime example. His widow told CNN that they were out running on the morning of October 7, as they planned to do a marathon together. But when news of the Hamas attacks broke, Abdallah hurried to join his brigade. unquote He died in the IDF. So there are Arabs who will even join the IDF to defend Israel. Israel’s Druze Arabs, fiercely loyal to the state, feel let down after ‘paying with their blood’ | CNN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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