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300 Muslim organizations demonstrate why Canada should end immigration from Muslim countries


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9 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Foremost among them is hatred for Jews and Israel. And the more of these people we bring to Canada the more antisemitism there will be.

Your source doesn't report the word hatred anywhere so I'm pretty sure its just ordinary run-of-the-mill sympathy for Palestine that you're all hot and bothered about here. 

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1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Your source doesn't report the word hatred anywhere so I'm pretty sure its just ordinary run-of-the-mill sympathy for Palestine that you're all hot and bothered about here. 

Nope. It's people who have Canadian citizenship but whose political motivations in trying to influence the Canadian government lie half a world away. Their priorities are their homelands, not what's in Canada's interest. This is why, last time I checked, the majority of Muslims voted Liberal, even though the Liberals' very leftist attitude toward women equality, gay rights, transgenderism, and other such matters should cause them to vote for the most conservative party they can find.

But their primary voting interest is in their homelands and the politics, disputes, and hatreds of their homelands. 

Edited by I am Groot
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13 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Nope. It's people who have Canadian citizenship but whose political motivations in trying to influence the Canadian government lie half a world away.

But their primary voting interest is in their homelands and the politics, disputes, and hatres of their homelands. 

I guess I can relate, I still get pretty steamed when I think about how Longshanks treated my kin. And don't get me started on those filthy Campbell's.

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16 hours ago, I am Groot said:

But their primary voting interest is in their homelands and the politics, disputes, and hatreds of their homelands. 

So if the Liberals aren't supporting Palestine, and the Conservatives aren't, and the NDP isn't, who are all of these Muslims going to vote for?  Are they abstaining?  Are they going to vote for the New Brotherhood of Canada party?  

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16 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Nope. It's people who have Canadian citizenship but whose political motivations in trying to influence the Canadian government lie half a world away. Their priorities are their homelands, not what's in Canada's interest. This is why, last time I checked, the majority of Muslims voted Liberal, even though the Liberals' very leftist attitude toward women equality, gay rights, transgenderism, and other such matters should cause them to vote for the most conservative party they can find.

But their primary voting interest is in their homelands and the politics, disputes, and hatreds of their homelands. 

lol you can spew this claptrap but if anyone were to suggest a similar dynamic at work with Zionist organizations you lot would play the antisemitism card so fast.

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16 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

So if the Liberals aren't supporting Palestine, and the Conservatives aren't, and the NDP isn't, who are all of these Muslims going to vote for?  Are they abstaining?  Are they going to vote for the New Brotherhood of Canada party?  

I suspect the Liberals are working hard behind the scenes, offering pledges of all kinds of government money for them if they announce (closer to election time) that the Liberals are the best friends they could possibly get and the conservatives are like Trump and will deport all Muslims.

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1 minute ago, Black Dog said:

lol you can spew this claptrap but if anyone were to suggest a similar dynamic at work with Zionist organizations you lot would play the antisemitism card so fast.

The Jews have been here an awful lot longer than the Muslims. Have you ever heard of anything remotely like this coming from them?

More to the point, Jews are Canadians. We don't get much immigration from Israel. The Jews here are integrated, except for the likes of the Hassidics. And most of them are fairly liberal and secular in their outlooks. 

You can hardly say the same with Muslims, the vast majority of whom were born elsewhere, mostly in the Middle East and North Africa.

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4 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

The Jews have been here an awful lot longer than the Muslims. Have you ever heard of anything remotely like this coming from them?

More to the point, Jews are Canadians. We don't get much immigration from Israel. The Jews here are integrated, except for the likes of the Hassidics. And most of them are fairly liberal and secular in their outlooks. 

You can hardly say the same with Muslims, the vast majority of whom were born elsewhere, mostly in the Middle East and North Africa.

There are a number of nominally Jewish organizations that lobby on behalf of Israel. For example, the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs recently hosted a conference attended by all three major party leaders and is pushing for official recognition that anti-Zionism is antisemitism (a view you would seem to endorse). 

Also it's hilarious to see a statement like "Jews are Canadians" uttered with such solemnity when it wasn't so long ago that Jews were barred from many professions and industries and Jewish immigration restricted as a matter of government policy.

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4 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

There are a number of nominally Jewish organizations that lobby on behalf of Israel. For example, the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs recently hosted a conference attended by all three major party leaders and is pushing for official recognition that anti-Zionism is antisemitism (a view you would seem to endorse). 

Zionism is about there being a Jewish state. To be opposed to that is to be in favor of what exactly?

When your friends say "From the River to the Sea Palestine will be free" what does that mean, BD? 

Also, do you think any of those earnest college progressives joining in with the demos have the slightest concept that a 'free' Palestine would most likely resemble Yemen or Iran?

4 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Also it's hilarious to see a statement like "Jews are Canadians" uttered with such solemnity when it wasn't so long ago that Jews were barred from many professions and industries and Jewish immigration restricted as a matter of government policy.

Well, I'm old, but not old enough to remember such times. And I doubt you are either. Let's live in today, hmm? 

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14 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

The Jews have been here an awful lot longer than the Muslims. Have you ever heard of anything remotely like this coming from them?

Are you suggesting that the Jewish lobby in North America isn't vocal/powerful/influential, and that it hasn't exerted its influence on the Israel/Gaza conflict?  

14 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

You can hardly say the same with Muslims, the vast majority of whom were born elsewhere, mostly in the Middle East and North Africa.

Sure, but what does that have to do with their voting?  Their saying they aren't going to allow MPs into their mosques sounds a lot to me like if the trannies told them they couldn't come to the drag shows.  They probably weren't planning to anyways, and who are these Muslims going to vote for if none of the parties are supporting Gaza?

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1 minute ago, I am Groot said:

Zionism is about there being a Jewish state. To be opposed to that is to be in favor of what exactly?

When your friends say "From the River to the Sea Palestine will be free" what does that mean, BD? 

A secular democracy with equal rights for all citizens.

Quote

Also, do you think any of those earnest college progressives joining in with the demos have the slightest concept that a 'free' Palestine would most likely resemble Yemen or Iran?

Oh, better to ethnic cleanse them I guess.

Quote

Well, I'm old, but not old enough to remember such times. And I doubt you are either. Let's live in today, hmm? 

The point here is the same people you regard as true Canadians were once viewed the same way you view Muslims today.

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13 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

When your friends say "From the River to the Sea Palestine will be free" what does that mean, BD? 

Likud did a lot more than say that in 1977. They made it happen:

Quote

The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)

a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party

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20 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Are you suggesting that the Jewish lobby in North America isn't vocal/powerful/influential, and that it hasn't exerted its influence on the Israel/Gaza conflict?  

I think that term is very overused. What exactly is this Jewish lobby and how much influence do they have in a day and age when donations are limited to $1200? There are 335k Jews in Canada. They're certainly not going to influence an election with their voting. Are you suggesting this Jewish Lobby bribes politicians under the table or something?

20 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Sure, but what does that have to do with their voting?  Their saying they aren't going to allow MPs into their mosques sounds a lot to me like if the trannies told them they couldn't come to the drag shows.  They probably weren't planning to anyways, and who are these Muslims going to vote for if none of the parties are supporting Gaza?

Every politician goes to mosques, temples and churches come election time. There are tons of pictures of Trudeau and Poilievre and past leaders at such gatherings, often wearing the weird costumes you need to wear. Campaigning for the ethnic vote is huge. More than half the population of Toronto and Vancouver are immigrants.

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24 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

A secular democracy with equal rights for all citizens.

You know that's not what they want, right? You know there's no way that's going to happen?

24 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Oh, better to ethnic cleanse them I guess.

My solution is to take all the Palestinians out of Gaza and move them to the West Bank, take all the Jews off the West bank and move them to Gaza, then give the West Bank to Jordan. That would take an enormous bribe for the Jordanians, and certain security guarantees, and I know it's unlikely, but it's the only one I can imagine being workable.

24 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

The point here is the same people you regard as true Canadians were once viewed the same way you view Muslims today.

Those people worked quietly away, despite the disapproval. They didn't get welfare, weren't disproportionately involved in violent crime, didn't campaign for laws to suit them, and didn't express hostility to just about all of the local values and customs.

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17 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Likud did a lot more than say that in 1977. They made it happen:

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party

Well, bear in mind that if that was their policy they had overwhelming force and could have expelled all the Palestinians back then, shoving them into Jordan, for the most part. But they didn't do it.

Do you imagine Hamas would be as reluctant to employ force? There's nowhere to shove the Jews but based on Oct 7 I don't think their plans call for just removing them so much as burying them or tossing their bodies into the sea.

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Just now, I am Groot said:

You know that's not what they want, right? You know there's no way that's going to happen?

You asked me, I answered.

Quote

Those people worked quietly away, despite the disapproval. They didn't get welfare, weren't disproportionately involved in violent crime, didn't campaign for laws to suit them, and didn't express hostility to just about all of the local values and customs.

They were stereotyped in many of the same ways you stereotype Muslims today.

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3 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

I think that term is very overused. What exactly is this Jewish lobby and how much influence do they have in a day and age when donations are limited to $1200? There are 335k Jews in Canada. They're certainly not going to influence an election with their voting. Are you suggesting this Jewish Lobby bribes politicians under the table or something?

No, I'm suggesting they exert influence, especially in the United States.  I don't really care what you call it.  

3 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Every politician goes to mosques, temples and churches come election time. There are tons of pictures of Trudeau and Poilievre and past leaders at such gatherings, often wearing the weird costumes you need to wear. Campaigning for the ethnic vote is huge. More than half the population of Toronto and Vancouver are immigrants.

Muslims, or immigrants?  The question still remains, who are these Muslims voting for? 

For the record, I'm somewhat with you on the immigration file.  I think we need much less, and much much less from certain regions.  The problem we have is that we have shitty economic and tax policy, and we have made it difficult and expensive for young adults to afford houses or have children.  A declining population is bad, as we can see in Japan and Russia.  If we aren't having enough kids, we need immigrants, and where are we getting them from?  Mostly from shitholes where people want to leave.  That's going to come with baggage, unfortunately, whether that's Chinese or Indian influence, or Muslim sympathies.  

 

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Just now, Black Dog said:

You asked me, I answered.

Do you really think the people in the protests believe that would happen?

Just now, Black Dog said:

They were stereotyped in many of the same ways you stereotype Muslims today.

Lots of groups are and were stereotyped. I'm talking about actions, not reputation.

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2 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Muslims, or immigrants?  The question still remains, who are these Muslims voting for? 

The only report I've seen in the media was after Trudeau's first election which said they voted overwhelmingly Liberal. I don't know that this has changed.

2 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

For the record, I'm somewhat with you on the immigration file.  I think we need much less, and much much less from certain regions.  The problem we have is that we have shitty economic and tax policy, and we have made it difficult and expensive for young adults to afford houses or have children. 

We could start by getting rid of all the foreign workers other than agricultural and highly skilled. And I don't mean coders or computer technicians. Require any schools that bring in foreign students to be able to house them on campus. Legally renounce any treaty that impacts how we deal with refugees. Put in place a new refugee policy using the Notwithstanding clause to ban the courts. Then we detain migrants - er refugees  until their hearings, which would be done rapidly, within weeks, and hearings within months. Then out the door if they fail. I'd also simply reject and send back anyone who comes here from the US or who flies here from a safe country like France. If they were legit they could have applied there.

All of that should free up a million or so low income/middle income housing and would soon free up the shelters so we could get those people in tent cities off the street.

Then we cut immigration completely and retool it. We have something in very high demand in the world. Why the hell do we just give it whoever applies? We would be out their looking for people with the skillset we really need. Which right now would include medical professionals and tradesmen. Why aren't we encouraging (through subsidies) local trade councils to go over to places like Italy, Greece, Spain and Portugal, which produced so many of our tradesmen back in the 50s,l 60s and 70s and offering to assist any who want to come here? We could bring them in as temporary foreign workers with the option for them to stay.

If you want half a million people a year you have to lower your standards. I you drop it to one hundred thousand you can be much more particular. 

2 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

A declining population is bad, as we can see in Japan and Russia.  If we aren't having enough kids, we need immigrants, and where are we getting them from?  Mostly from shitholes where people want to leave.  That's going to come with baggage, unfortunately, whether that's Chinese or Indian influence, or Muslim sympathies.  

There are people in China with no love of the Communist Party. There are Indians who are forward thinking and not bound by that countries present backward cultural beliefs and values. There are Muslims who want to live in a more secular way, who aren't particularly devoted. We should be restricting immigration to these types of people there and elsewhere. And only if they can support themselves.

This should not be populated almost entirely by immigrants and refugees. 

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4 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

The only report I've seen in the media was after Trudeau's first election which said they voted overwhelmingly Liberal. I don't know that this has changed.

Probably not at all, despite Trudeau cutting UNRWA funding.  That's the nature of centrism.  Who are the Muslims going to vote for instead?  Poilievre, who's even more anti-Gaza? 

7 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

We could start by getting rid of all the foreign workers other than agricultural and highly skilled. And I don't mean coders or computer technicians. Require any schools that bring in foreign students to be able to house them on campus.

I think we're already starting to see that, and will probably see more of it.  The student VISA program has been greatly curtailed, and this will (hopefully) end up being an election issue.  

8 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Legally renounce any treaty that impacts how we deal with refugees. Put in place a new refugee policy using the Notwithstanding clause to ban the courts. Then we detain migrants - er refugees  until their hearings, which would be done rapidly, within weeks, and hearings within months. Then out the door if they fail. I'd also simply reject and send back anyone who comes here from the US or who flies here from a safe country like France. If they were legit they could have applied there.

I don't know how realistic it is, but I don't really disagree with it.  If we can do that, I think we should.  I don't feel that we are responsible for rescuing peoples from messes of their own making.  Case-by-case refugee reviews are a waste of time and taxpayer money, and there has to be a better way. 

11 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

There are people in China with no love of the Communist Party. There are Indians who are forward thinking and not bound by that countries present backward cultural beliefs and values. There are Muslims who want to live in a more secular way, who aren't particularly devoted. We should be restricting immigration to these types of people there and elsewhere. And only if they can support themselves.

Agreed.

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1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

lol you can spew this claptrap but if anyone were to suggest a similar dynamic at work with Zionist organizations you lot would play the antisemitism card so fast.

Zionism is simply the support of the State of Israel.  Nothing wrong with that unless you are a diehard anti-Semite.

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