blackbird Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 16 minutes ago, Black Dog said: As de facto second class citizens, sure. Another nonsensical comment with no basis. If someone wants to become a good citizen, there are avenues, but they can't be a terrorist supporter or an antisemite at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 18 minutes ago, Black Dog said: Israeli kids are brainwashed into hating Arabs and believing they have a divine right to the land and are forced to join the military and enforce a brutal occupation. What about them? No different than any other country. Everyone in a country believes it is their country. Israel is a little different in the sense that God did give them the land in perpetuity several thousand years ago. The Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and drove many of them out and they were dispersed to other countries. Some of them remained. Then after Islam was started in about the 7th century, the Muslims invaded and took control of Israel at various times and periods since then. Turkey ruled Israel for a long period under the name of the Ottoman Empire. If I am correct, the British took control after WW1. Then Israel regained control in 1948. A large number of Arabs remained in the area but many decided they don't want to live in peace or accept the state of Israel. So there is ongoing conflict that does not appear to have an end in sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 27 minutes ago, Black Dog said: Israeli kids are brainwashed into hating Arabs and believing they have a divine right to the land and are forced to join the military and enforce a brutal occupation. What about them? I don't know about being brainwashed into hating Arabs. That sounds like it could be propaganda. Of course they are patriotic to their country. Why shouldn't they be? It is their land. People have to join the military to defend their country. They are surrounded by tens of millions of enemies who hate them and want to destroy Israel. A nation has to do what it must to defend itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 23 minutes ago, blackbird said: No different than any other country. Everyone in a country believes it is their country. Israel is a little different in the sense that God did give them the land in perpetuity several thousand years ago. Bzzt wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 3 minutes ago, Black Dog said: Bzzt wrong. What country are you from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Just now, blackbird said: What country are you from? Planet earth, you should visit sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Just now, Black Dog said: Planet earth, you should visit sometime. You have strange ideas. Just asking because you could be from an antisemitic country. There are lots of them around. Just trying to figure out where you get your ideas. Maybe you could explain. But I won't hold my breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 minute ago, blackbird said: You have strange ideas. Just asking because you could be from an antisemitic country. There are lots of them around. Just trying to figure out where you get your ideas. Maybe you could explain. But I won't hold my breath. I get my ideas that an ancient myth about an invisible supernatural entity giving a certain ethnoreligious group the right to a chunk of land is not a legitimate claim to said territory is based on common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Black Dog said: I get my ideas that an ancient myth about an invisible supernatural entity giving a certain ethnoreligious group the right to a chunk of land is not a legitimate claim to said territory is based on common sense. Based on "common sense"? Who's common sense? Yours? Or do you have any credible authority? You don't appear to even know or consider history? Just going by history, the Jews have a strong claim to the land. Why do you ignore that? You must be an Arab, Muslim. Unless you have an anti-semitic ideology which would not surprise me as much of the world is known to be antisemitic. Edited February 28 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carepov Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, Black Dog said: You're suggesting that an Israeli state that doesn't afford greater rights to one ethno-religious group is inherently weak. i don't agree with that. That is not what I am saying. Arab-Israelis have equal rights in Israel and a much better standard of living than Arabs in any surrounding country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_Arab_Muslims *** What do you think of the Hamas charter that calls for the elimination of all Jews? What is your opinion on the 10/7 attacks? Do you support the firing of rockets from Gaza into Israel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 minute ago, carepov said: That is not what I am saying. Arab-Israelis have equal rights in Israel and a much better standard of living than Arabs in any surrounding country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_Arab_Muslims *** If you read the link you provided you'd see Arab Israelis face significant amounts of legal and social discrimination. Quote What do you think of the Hamas charter that calls for the elimination of all Jews? What is your opinion on the 10/7 attacks? Do you support the firing of rockets from Gaza into Israel? Those are all bad. Now what do you think of Israel's ongoing annexation of the West Bank and campaign of indiscriminate violence in Gaza, which has been subject to a blockade before Hamas even ruled it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carepov Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 41 minutes ago, Black Dog said: If you read the link you provided you'd see Arab Israelis face significant amounts of legal and social discrimination. Yes, there was significant discrimination in the past, today there is no legal discrimination. Social discrimination exists in Israel, my guess is that it is on par or less pronounced that social discrimination against Indigenous people in Canada or Blacks in the US. 46 minutes ago, Black Dog said: Those are all bad. So what should Israel do about it? 47 minutes ago, Black Dog said: Now what do you think of Israel's ongoing annexation of the West Bank I don't know what to think about it. I used to think that it was very bad. I now realized that no matter what Israel does, Palestinian leaders and their supporters call for violence and the elimination of Israel. In other words: Israeli actions do not cause Palestinian violence 50 minutes ago, Black Dog said: campaign of indiscriminate violence in Gaza, which has been subject to a blockade before Hamas even ruled it? There is no Israeli indiscriminate violence in Gaza. Given Hamas' charter and actions a blockade is reasonable. Even Egypt agrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 2 minutes ago, carepov said: Yes, there was significant discrimination in the past, today there is no legal discrimination. Social discrimination exists in Israel, my guess is that it is on par or less pronounced that social discrimination against Indigenous people in Canada or Blacks in the US. Your guess? Come on. Quote So what should Israel do about it? I dunno. I don't think Israel does either, and i don't think what they're doing now is in any way defensible. Quote I don't know what to think about it. I used to think that it was very bad. I now realized that no matter what Israel does, Palestinian leaders and their supporters call for violence and the elimination of Israel. In other words: Israeli actions do not cause Palestinian violence They directly contribute to it, what are you talking about? Quote There is no Israeli indiscriminate violence in Gaza. Sure there is, the evidence speaks for itself. Quote Given Hamas' charter and actions a blockade is reasonable. Even Egypt agrees. Again, the Gaza blockade preceded Hamas's election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carepov Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 (edited) 20 hours ago, Black Dog said: I dunno. Not even an idea? Not even some options? 20 hours ago, Black Dog said: I don't think Israel does either, and i don't think what they're doing now is in any way defensible. Yes, Hamas is a threat and they are eliminating the threat. Edited February 29 by carepov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, carepov said: Not even an idea? Not even some options? You first. Quote Yes, Hamas is a threat and they are eliminating the threat. Yes by indiscriminately bombing the hell out of the place. Do you think the generation of Palestinians that have seen their families slaughtered and homes destroyed by Israel will be less inclined to hate them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carepov Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, Black Dog said: You first. Yes by indiscriminately bombing the hell out of the place. Do you think the generation of Palestinians that have seen their families slaughtered and homes destroyed by Israel will be less inclined to hate them? Israel's only option is war. They are not indiscriminately bombing. Hate should be directed at Hamas. If they had not executed 10/7, breaking the ceasefire, there would be no war. If they released the hostages and surrendered, the war would end. Your turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted February 29 Author Report Share Posted February 29 On 2/26/2024 at 2:09 PM, Black Dog said: Why don't you look up all the statements by various Israeli government and military figures expressing their intention to ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank. If Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank they'd have done it long ago. Nobody was going to be able to stop them. They have the power. If the Arabs had the power all the Jews would be dead. On 2/26/2024 at 2:23 PM, Black Dog said: Israel's transformation from a Jewish-supremacist state to one where everyone enjoys equal rights regardless of their religious or ethnic background isn't contingent upon any peace deal. There isn't a Muslim-majority nation on Earth where everyone enjoys equal rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted February 29 Author Report Share Posted February 29 10 hours ago, Black Dog said: What does that have to do with the broader question of an Israeli state that isn't organized on ethno-religious lines? Seems like deflection to me. How come you don't care about the Muslim states that are organized on ethno-religious lines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted February 29 Author Report Share Posted February 29 8 hours ago, Black Dog said: If you read the link you provided you'd see Arab Israelis face significant amounts of legal and social discrimination. And yet they still enjoy more rights and freedoms than the people in any Arab nation. 9 hours ago, Black Dog said: Israeli kids are brainwashed into hating Arabs and believing they have a divine right to the land and are forced to join the military and enforce a brutal occupation. What about them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 15 hours ago, I am Groot said: How come you don't care about the Muslim states that are organized on ethno-religious lines? I don't think we should be giving them billions of dollars of weapons and aid either. 15 hours ago, I am Groot said: And yet they still enjoy more rights and freedoms than the people in any Arab nation. Pure whataboutism, which is the only argument Zionists have for defending the indefensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 (edited) 17 hours ago, carepov said: Israel's only option is war. They are not indiscriminately bombing. 70 per cent of Gaza housing stock has been destroyed. They've blown up universities and civic and cultural institutions. IDF troops boast about this stuff on social media, Israeli political and military leaders admit to it and westerners are still pretending the IDF is doing some kind of precision campaign, it's shocking. Quote Hate should be directed at Hamas. If they had not executed 10/7, breaking the ceasefire, there would be no war. If they released the hostages and surrendered, the war would end. The war on Palestinians didn't start on 10/7 and the fact you think it does says a lot. Quote Your turn. End the occupation of the west bank, end all settlement activity in East Jerusalem, end the indiscriminate massacre of Gazans, end the blockade. Edited February 29 by Black Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted February 29 Author Report Share Posted February 29 1 hour ago, Black Dog said: I don't think we should be giving them billions of dollars of weapons and aid either. Pure whataboutism, which is the only argument Zionists have for defending the indefensible. It's not whataboutism when you are demanding their rights be taken away from them and their nation be converted into a brutal Islamic dictatorship. And don't even bother trying to deny that's what the only realistic outcome would be if you got your way and Israel was erased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carepov Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 1 hour ago, Black Dog said: 70 per cent of Gaza housing stock has been destroyed. They've blown up universities and civic and cultural institutions. IDF troops boast about this stuff on social media, Israeli political and military leaders admit to it and westerners are still pretending the IDF is doing some kind of precision campaign, it's shocking. Hamas fighters are hiding in all these places. 1 hour ago, Black Dog said: The war on Palestinians didn't start on 10/7 and the fact you think it does says a lot. I do not think that and I never said that. What I said was that there was a ceasefire on 10/6 and Hamas broke that ceasefire. 1 hour ago, Black Dog said: End the occupation of the west bank, end all settlement activity in East Jerusalem, end the indiscriminate massacre of Gazans, end the blockade. This will not work. Hamas has said that they will continue to attack Israel until Hamas controls all of Palestine from the River to the Sea. Why don't you believe what they say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 9 minutes ago, carepov said: Hamas fighters are hiding in all these places. Sure just like they had that massive headquarter complex under that hospital that somehow noone got to see. You are a dupe. Quote I do not think that and I never said that. What I said was that there was a ceasefire on 10/6 and Hamas broke that ceasefire. There was never a ceasefire either. Quote This will not work. Hamas has said that they will continue to attack Israel until Hamas controls all of Palestine from the River to the Sea. Why don't you believe what they say? They can say what they want, they do not pose an existential threat to Israel anymore than AL Qaeda did to the united States. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 41 minutes ago, I am Groot said: It's not whataboutism It's text book whataboutism, dude. Quote when you are demanding their rights be taken away from them and their nation be converted into a brutal Islamic dictatorship. And don't even bother trying to deny that's what the only realistic outcome would be if you got your way and Israel was erased. Zionists need to get a new line, this stuff is so tired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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