As Kids, They Thought They Were Trans. They No Longer Do. (or why it's ok for parents to question)

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Define this ideology.

I believe it was just defined twice above - once for the ideology of gender itself and the ideology surrounding it.  Here was my contribution, others added their bits about gender ideology specifically

"That might be the ideology OF gender but the ideology AROUND gender is just as bad.

This is the current prevalent left wing idea that children should be strongly encouraged to be confused about their gender and that anyone including parents who might interfere with that are evil and should be kept away. Any child willing to undergo medical transformation should be protected and put into that program as quickly as possible no matter what.  And any research that suggests that's happening too quickly should be denounced as 'transphobic'.

The idea that it's somehow DESIRABLE to have as many kids transition as possible is not based on science but rather ideology and it's dangerous as hell for the kids."

 

And that is an ideological position. That somehow it is more important that we pump out as many transgender people as possible as soon as possible at as young an age as possible because this is a desirable goal in and of itself. That is not a position based or science or the best interests of the children.

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

 

1. This is the current prevalent left wing idea that children should be strongly encouraged to be confused about their gender and that anyone including parents who might interfere with that are evil and should be kept away. Any child willing to undergo medical transformation should be protected and put into that program as quickly as possible no matter what.  And any research that suggests that's happening too quickly should be denounced as 'transphobic'.

 

1. Can you find any group whose stated purpose is to confuse children?  Of course not.  It's a conspiracy theory and a troll.

 

If it were true, it would comprise a conspiracy of child abuse not an ideology. 

 

Generally you should never try to define anything, because you can't see reality objectively.

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

What does any of this have to do with your argument that it's physically impossible to change one's gender.

Nothing. Its physically impossible to change genders. Period.

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Ideology just sounds scary to people who don't know English.

Nothing scary about ideology. 

Something disturbing about teaching young children about gender ideology, especially so when not anchored in biological facts.

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. Nothing scary about ideology. 

2. Something disturbing about teaching young children about gender ideology, especially so when not anchored in biological facts.

1. Honestly, I'm glad to see that you understand this, but I'm still convinced that culture warriors use it because it sounds diabolical.

2. Except nobody has explained objectively what such a thing even IS.  You insist on calling the idea that gender is a social construct an ideology.  When asked, you post why you disagree with the idea.  You have done that several times at least twice.

If you don't want to use proper words, you're not interested in a real discussion IMO.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Can you find any group whose stated purpose is to confuse children?  Of course not.  It's a conspiracy theory and a troll.

IF the results of their ideology leave children confused regardless - then it's their purpose whether it's stated or not. 

Sorry but if all you've got is that you're being dishonest.

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If it were true, it would comprise a conspiracy of child abuse not an ideology. 

Nonsense. They might well BELIEVE they're doing the right thing. Parents for years practiced genital mutilation on young women believing honestly it was in their best interest due to their ideology.  The fact that these people ARE abusing children doesn't mean that's their INTENT or that it's a conspiracy to do so.

Please try to talk like a rational adult. You're letting your emotions run away with you again.

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Generally you should never try to define anything, because you can't see reality objectively.

Awww muffin.   Here - fill  out this form. Click on it for the bigger version.

[Michael Hardner]

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. IF the results of their ideology leave children confused regardless - then it's their purpose whether it's stated or not. 

 

2. Please try to talk like a rational adult. You're letting your emotions run away with you again.

 

1. It's not the purpose.

2. Not emotional. It's just that an idea isn't ideology.  There's no ideology.  The idea is that gender is a social construct.  If we can get most people to accept that then some will be happier, is the general idea.

I'll keep saying that until someone explains why that word works.  

You keep posting your cartoons calling me a b*tch...

[herbie]

[CdnFox]

18 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. It's not the purpose.

Not relevant. It's the result. But the purpose IS to cause kids to question their gender identity and sexuality. The fact that leaves them confused doesn't change that.
 

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2. Not emotional. It's just that an idea isn't ideology.  There's no ideology. 

It's literally an ideology.  The definiton of ideology is a system of ideas.  it's not an 'idea' in the sense of 'hey i know... "   It's a system of ideals and ideas with an intended result. Hence  - literal definition of ideology.

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The idea is that gender is a social construct.  If we can get most people to accept that then some will be happier, is the general idea.

That's not the 'general idea'. The idea is that politically it is percieved to be of value to have more trans kids out there so they next idea is to encourage and pressure kids to question their gender identity and then the next idea is  move as many as possible through the transition process as soon as possible. 

A series of ideas leading to a political position and plan. An ideology.

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I'll keep saying that until someone explains why that word works.  

You mean you'll keep dishonestly ignoring the literal definition of the word  so you can feel better about defending your ideology.

 

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You keep posting your cartoons calling me a b*tch...

Oh i don't think anyone actually needed the cartoon to know that... it was just funny.

[Michael Hardner]

18 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

.

You mean you'll keep dishonestly ignoring the literal definition of the word  so you can feel better about defending your ideology.

 

No.  You can't expect anyone to just accept you saying that it's a system of ideas without explaining why it is.

I posted my question because I really wanted to explore whether that word might be rationalized.  At least Perspektiv tries in good faith.

You're not a serious poster on here.

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

No.  You can't expect anyone to just accept you saying that it's a system of ideas without explaining why it is.

I posted my question because I really wanted to explore whether that word might be rationalized.  At least Perspektiv tries in good faith.

You're not a serious poster on here.

I explained why it is in detail. Those who subscribe to the ideology believe that their is value in having as many children question their gender and 'change' genders as possible, they encourage and push them to question their genders and if one shows any interest they hustle them through the transgender process as fast as possible.

This is the reason they don't want parents involved. They don't want anyone to interfere with expediting the kids' "transgender journey" as quickly as possible.

The left has developed a series of ideas and ideologies around gender and transgederism. You may not like the word for some reason but it is accurate,

You don't want to explore anything. You're as dishonest as the day is long. You were given perfectly good and demonstrable definitons and you just pretend they don't exist because you don't want to deal with the facts or truth. They don't suit YOU ideologies.

It's stupid to pretend your question wasn't answered several times now. If you can't discuss things like an adult don't waste my time. You know i don't suffer fools well.

[Black Dog]

14 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Nothing. Its physically impossible to change genders. Period.

Well that's because gender isn't a set of physical attributes.

[Michael Hardner]

43 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Well that's because gender isn't a set of physical attributes.

That's a big 10-4... 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

Well that's because gender isn't a set of physical attributes.

Then why is it necessary to change a person physically to match their gender? If it has nothing to do with biology then we shouldn't be doing 'Gender affirming surgeries" or treatments in the first place.

Can't have it both ways. if gender is completely independent of physical traits then changing physical traits shoudln't be required.

[Black Dog]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Then why is it necessary to change a person physically to match their gender? If it has nothing to do with biology then we shouldn't be doing 'Gender affirming surgeries" or treatments in the first place.

Can't have it both ways. if gender is completely independent of physical traits then changing physical traits shoudln't be required.

Nobody said it was. 

[CdnFox]

28 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Nobody said it was. 

So gender IS based on physical traits.  Is that what you're saying?

[Black Dog]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So gender IS based on physical traits.  Is that what you're saying?

Physical traits can certainly influence or inform one's personal sense of one's own gender. Like if you got your c*ck and balls ripped off in an industrial accident, chances are you would "feel" like less of a man as a result.

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Physical traits can certainly influence or inform one's personal sense of one's own gender. Like if you got your c*ck and balls ripped off in an industrial accident, chances are you would "feel" like less of a man as a result.

 

But - if what you're saying is true then you're claiming you CAN change  your gender just by changing your physical attributes. Sooooo - gender IS actually at least substantially a set of physical characteristics.  If you can change someone's gender just by ripping their balls off then obviously it IS physical at least to a very large degree even if there's other factors.

So your previous statement would be incorrect.

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So your previous statement would be incorrect.

Or two things can be true at the same time. I'm pretty sure this is something you've said before.

[Army Guy]

On 2/5/2024 at 1:20 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

"Don't you find it odd that plastic surgery can cure a mental disorder?" Quote from Felicity Huffman's character, Bree Osbourne, in Transamerica (2005)

Why do you care if someone wants to exersize their rights over their own healthcare? Do you oppose surgery to correct a cleft lip? Gender affirming surgery is corrective surgery. Do you believe a teenager should not receive surgery to correct a cleft lip?

As I asked earlier, if you are male and your parents decide to force you to be female, do you believe your parents should have that right?

Thats a bold statement...considering there is a percentage that wake up and regret their decision to have surgery , not to mention there are an infinite amount of genders one can chose from, how does plastic surgery cure those that define themselves other than male or female...

I believe there is a huge difference between a cleft lip and having live changing surgery that could be cured by simple metal health care...and after the age of 18, who cares what elective surgery you have, on your own dime...

I'm just wonder how many cases has there been of this,Probably less than .00001 a percentage of the population, and yes that would be wrong....it is the parents that have the mental health issue....that should be treated ASAP...

It is a poor question really... If that child is living at home then it is the Parents responsibility to provide the best care possible, in line with current laws, and what the parents see fit or can afford...Once that child turns into an adult or leaves home then they can ,make what ever health care decisions they want to...

 

[Black Dog]

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

But - if what you're saying is true then you're claiming you CAN change  your gender just by changing your physical attributes. Sooooo - gender IS actually at least substantially a set of physical characteristics.  If you can change someone's gender just by ripping their balls off then obviously it IS physical at least to a very large degree even if there's other factors.

So your previous statement would be incorrect.

It's possible someone could have their genitals removed and still feel as much like a man and of course could continue to present as such. It really depends on the individual, which is why a blanket statement like " Its physically impossible to change genders. Period." is incorrect. And of course there's a difference between gender identity (how one feels), gender expression (how one presents) and gender perception (how one is preceived).

[Queenmandy85]

2 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I believe there is a huge difference between a cleft lip and having live changing surgery that could be cured by simple metal health care...and after the age of 18, who cares what elective surgery you have, on your own dime...

 

The only existing treatment that successfully corrects this situation is gender reassignment surgery. Nobody in Canada can have GRS until they reach the age of majority, usually 18 or 19. 

Children can live as the gender they need to transition to, but they cannot have the surgery until they are legally an adult. I believe the question of puberty blockers requires a physician to sign off on it. They are not something you can just buy over the counter in Sobey's.

[Army Guy]

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

 

But - if what you're saying is true then you're claiming you CAN change  your gender just by changing your physical attributes. Sooooo - gender IS actually at least substantially a set of physical characteristics.  If you can change someone's gender just by ripping their balls off then obviously it IS physical at least to a very large degree even if there's other factors.

So your previous statement would be incorrect.

Horseshit...you can add on or rip off anything you like, does not mean your now a women or a man... you still have male or female chromosomes, which determine your sex...males will still have larger frames, larger muscles mass, science has not change anything about that.... here in this country you can have unlimited amount of genders, ranging for he, she, to fire truck or dog or cat...none of that is based on science but for some reason it has been forced down our throat and we all grin and agree, shit it personally does not effect me one bit, WTF you want to be called...we do it to avoid confrontation, not that we agree with it... 

[CdnFox]

15 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Or two things can be true at the same time. I'm pretty sure this is something you've said before.

No, those two things are diametrically opposed and can't be true at the same time.

This isn't schrodinger's dick  LOL 

[eyeball]

Just now, CdnFox said:

No, those two things are diametrically opposed and can't be true at the same time.

Said the most diametrically oppositional member of the forum.

[Army Guy]

1 minute ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The only existing treatment that successfully corrects this situation is gender reassignment surgery. Nobody in Canada can have GRS until they reach the age of majority, usually 18 or 19. 

Children can live as the gender they need to transition to, but they cannot have the surgery until they are legally an adult. I believe the question of puberty blockers requires a physician to sign off on it. They are not something you can just buy over the counter in Sobey's.

So what you stating is that mental health treat DOES NOT work. Well sir i call bullshit...i think the truth is some where in the middle here, but to state the ONLY successful treatment is surgery is false news....It has long been believed that gender dysphoria is a mental health issue and should be treated as such... 

I have no issues when they become adults do what ever they want to their bodies, as long as it is not on the taxpayers dime , it is a personally chose or personally enhancement...as for puberty blockers I'm sorry i'm not there yet, i don't believe they should be used on children period...