As Kids, They Thought They Were Trans. They No Longer Do. (or why it's ok for parents to question)

[CdnFox]

https://archive.ph/HhfCD

“I felt so detached from my body, and the way it was developing felt hostile to me,” Powell told me. It was classic gender dysphoria, a feeling of discomfort with your sex.

Reading about transgender people online, Powell believed that the reason she didn’t feel comfortable in her body was that she was in the wrong body. Transitioning seemed like the obvious solution. The narrative she had heard and absorbed was that if you don’t transition, you’ll kill yourself.

 

“I wish there had been more open conversations,” Powell, now 23 and detransitioned, told me. “But I was told there is one cure and one thing to do if this is your problem, and this will help you.”

 

Many transgender adults are happy with their transitions and, whether they began to transition as adults or adolescents, feel it was life changing, even lifesaving. The small but rapidly growing number of children who express gender dysphoria and who transition at an early age, according to clinicians, is a recent and more controversial phenomenon.

 

 

Bottom line - kids who transition at young ages as we're now seeing in Canada frequently grow up to regret it, with bodies that can never be repaired.

 

Alberta, sask, pei and any other province is absolutely correct to make sure that teachers are forced to involve parents early on when their children exibit signs of transgender behavior or gender dysphoria and parents are RIGHT to question if this is real or a phase and which treatments are best.  It may well be the kid eventually transitions and that's fine but it's not ok to ruin their lives for virtue points.

 

 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The narrative she had heard and absorbed was that if you don’t transition, you’ll kill yourself.

This is the narrative currently seducing young girls and boys. Pushing it socially as trendy, vs the mental health issue that it is, genuinely has people believing you can somehow stop puberty and do other modifications and reverse them if you change your mind.

It's even extended to the population as a whole. Question this, you're a murderer. Laugh at things not adding up, and you're a monster.

Affirming care, is essentially potentially castrating people who have underlying issues that have nothing to do with gender dysphoria.

[Michael Hardner]

The New York Times article is really good.

 

But the main point of it is this

“What should be a medical and psychological issue has been morphed into a political one,” Powell lamented during our conversation. “It’s a mess.”  

Edited February 3 by Michael Hardner

[Michael Hardner]

 

If members of the public want to step up and show themselves is actually caring about children, which people on all sides of this profess to do, then they have to be very careful to not make their language about politics.

The studies appear to be infected by politics. The advocates and the critics are infected by politics.

Bottom line is that we don't know a lot about this.

There's a Globe and mail article that goes through the Alberta legislation, for example, and find most of it to be ineffectual and political.

If you speak up about the risks of this, you said to be right wing. If you decry the legislation you're said to be left wing.

But looking at the issue requires people to really put politics aside. And again, you have to be precise and clear in your language.

As such, I didn't find anything in the article that supported the OP Assertion that people frequently regret taking steps to change their gender. In fact, the article seems to say it's another area that's being politicized.

Edited February 3 by Michael Hardner

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

It's even extended to the population as a whole. Question this, you're a murderer. Laugh at things not adding up, and you're a monster.

With this article, the liberal public sphere finally has a starting point to begin discussing this without being seen as reactionary.

This is a good thing for people who share your viewpoint.

 

My point of view in all of this is that it's a very good point for the most important thing.... That is, the public sphere. More important than the children at the center of the political debate...

It's good for the public sphere.

Edited February 3 by Michael Hardner

[Queenmandy85]

In Canada, nobody can have gender reassignment surgery until they reach the age of majority, 18 or 19.

 

[Queenmandy85]

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Pushing it socially as trendy, vs the mental health issue that it is, genuinely has people believing you can somehow stop puberty and do other modifications and reverse them if you change your mind.

Going to school to get a frequent shit-kicking from the knuckle dragging trogladytes that infest every school is not something anybody does lightly. Tragically, some ignorant parents while add to the beatings. So, no, it is not a trendy hip thing a person does, nor is it a mental illness. 

[Zeitgeist]

We need Alberta’s Parental Rights Bill across Canada.  It settles these issues in important ways that ensure sensible, careful consideration is given to major life choices, parents have critical input as guardians of their children, and trans kids are protected from bullying and discrimination without infringing on other rights such as girls competing in girls’ sports.  It’s just good policy.

[Queenmandy85]

51 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

girls competing in girls’ sports

I think you mean women competing in women's sports. We are talking about people over the age of majority.

Also, do you not have an issue of men competing in men's sports? Or are you discriminating against men? Probably half of trans people are F2M.

 

Edited February 3 by Queenmandy85

[Queenmandy85]

52 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

careful consideration is given to major life choices

What do you mean with the word "choice?" The choice is made for them. You do not suddenly decide the nature of your gender when you reach puberty. When you were in high school, did you ever wake up in the morning and decide, "I think I want to have a good beating today, and alienate my friends while I am at it?"

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

We need Alberta’s Parental Rights Bill across Canada.  It settles these issues in important ways that ensure sensible, careful consideration is given to major life choices, parents have critical input as guardians of their children, and trans kids are protected from bullying and discrimination without infringing on other rights such as girls competing in girls’ sports.  It’s just good policy.

Is that the name of this bill? Doesn't it actually restrict parental rights too?

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

and trans kids are protected from bullying and discrimination

That is naive. Just how do you prevent bullying? Schools have prohibited bullying for decades. How is that working?

[Zeitgeist]

55 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I think you mean women competing in women's sports. We are talking about people over the age of majority.

Also, do you not have an issue of men competing in men's sports? Or are you discriminating against men? Probably half of trans people are F2M.

 

Men have a huge competitive advantage competing in women’s sports.  

[Zeitgeist]

39 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

That is naive. Just how do you prevent bullying? Schools have prohibited bullying for decades. How is that working?

You can only police people so far.  It’s impossible to see all the needling and silent exclusion that takes place on the playground, as has always been the case. As much as possible kids need to be equipped with the tools to fight their own battles.  The rules exist.  Known bullying is punished almost always, but that doesn’t mean that mean behaviour doesn’t persist under the radar in to some extent.  It’s called human nature.

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Men have a huge competitive advantage competing in women’s sports.  

the women are the ones imposing this upon themselves

if they want the Loyalists of Upper Canada to defend their honour

they will have to say so in public square

as we await their orders therein

in that chivalry is not dead to we gentleman Canadian soldiers

in the meantime, I am only bound to defend my wife

[Zeitgeist]

50 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Is that the name of this bill? Doesn't it actually restrict parental rights too?

Not sure of exact wording.  Yes it sets reasonable limits on all stakeholders.  It’s far from a free for all for anyone.  At least it’s a good attempt at bringing reasonableness to the catastrophic meddling in families by gender ideologues, usually social workers with baggage.  It protects kids, including trans kids, from excesses, buyer’s remorse on child transitions.  There are carve outs to protect kids in abusive situations.  

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

In Canada, nobody can have gender reassignment surgery until they reach the age of majority, 18 or 19.

 

They can access hormone blockers.  I’m also not sure your claim is true.  Evidence?

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

What do you mean with the word "choice?" The choice is made for them. You do not suddenly decide the nature of your gender when you reach puberty. When you were in high school, did you ever wake up in the morning and decide, "I think I want to have a good beating today, and alienate my friends while I am at it?"

Genetics determine your sex/gender, if you’re honest. The separation of biological gender from sex is a modern social construct. I do think that there are extreme cases of dysphoria that persist and we’ve always had hermaphrodites who usually want the gender aligned to their biological XY or XX.  Spreading an entire ideology of choose your own gender is dangerous for many reasons, not only because of potential remorse over sex reassignment: confusion, infertility, violation of other rights, etc.  Nevertheless, bills like Alberta’s respect trans rights within reasonable limits.  They also protect other rights.  It’s hardly radical legislation.  In fact it’s very mild.  

Edited February 3 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

14 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 1.  At least it’s a good attempt at bringing reasonableness to the catastrophic meddling in families by gender ideologues, usually social workers with baggage.  

2. It protects kids, including trans kids, from excesses, buyer’s remorse on child transitions.  There are carve outs to protect kids in abusive situations.  

1. Your characterization of social workers can't be based on anything objective. I see this bill, based on what I've read, to be more political than anything else.  They don't have age limits on such things right now because puberty starts at different ages for different people.

If they listened to some medical people, then they would have heard that.

That said, the conversation has changed and it's time for all sides to look at this with fresh eyes.

I for one would like to see the left throw out their political perspective on this and come back to the discussion.

Unfortunately though, the topic is also being poisoned from the right in the name of protecting children and giving parents more say. This bill doesn't seem to do that.

2. If a bill puts restrictions on things that aren't even happening, it makes me scratch my head and wonder why those things are in there.

I'm sure there's going to be a lot of discussion on this, and the New York Times article posted today should signal a restart for the discussion.

But I'm still not going to engage if people are using rhetorical tactics and putting politics in front of pragmatism and good health.

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Your characterization of social workers can't be based on anything objective. I see this bill, based on what I've read, to be more political than anything else.  They don't have age limits on such things right now because puberty starts at different ages for different people.

If they listened to some medical people, then they would have heard that.

That said, the conversation has changed and it's time for all sides to look at this with fresh eyes.

I for one would like to see the left throw out their political perspective on this and come back to the discussion.

Unfortunately though, the topic is also being poisoned from the right in the name of protecting children and giving parents more say. This bill doesn't seem to do that.

2. If a bill puts restrictions on things that aren't even happening, it makes me scratch my head and wonder why those things are in there.

I'm sure there's going to be a lot of discussion on this, and the New York Times article posted today should signal a restart for the discussion.

But I'm still not going to engage if people are using rhetorical tactics and putting politics in front of pragmatism and good health.

You’re just wrong on this.  We have to have age limits for the same reasons that we have an age restriction for driving.  Making age discretionary will cause excesses.  It already has.  Britain is drafting very similar legislation.

Yes my characterization of the social work profession is accurate, because it’s heavily tainted by politicization and dubious ideology.  It’s part of the same “river to the sea” radicalism that has corrupted higher learning institutions across the West, but social work and public education have been especially influenced to one side of the debate.  You really have to read more widely and get out of your radical leftist bubble, Hardner.

 

[Queenmandy85]

40 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

They can access hormone blockers.  I’m also not sure your claim is true.  Evidence?

Provincial Health ministries. I don't know much about hormone blockers. It is my understanding that they are reversible. The thing is, a child knows if they are in the wrong body by the time they are in their early teens. They don't need someone else to tell them. It is a rare condition. Unfortunately, even with the best parents, teenagers tend to be loath to tell their parents anything about sex or gender.  

When a youth does inform her parent that she wants to transition to a male, the best response for the parent is to be supportive and loving because nothing the parent or anyone else can say or do, is going to change that kid. 

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

 

If members of the public want to step up and show themselves is actually caring about children, which people on all sides of this profess to do, then they have to be very careful to not make their language about politics.

The studies appear to be infected by politics. The advocates and the critics are infected by politics.

Bottom line is that we don't know a lot about this.

There's a Globe and mail article that goes through the Alberta legislation, for example, and find most of it to be ineffectual and political.

If you speak up about the risks of this, you said to be right wing. If you decry the legislation you're said to be left wing.

But looking at the issue requires people to really put politics aside. And again, you have to be precise and clear in your language.

As such, I didn't find anything in the article that supported the OP Assertion that people frequently regret taking steps to change their gender. In fact, the article seems to say it's another area that's being politicized.

That option is so far back in the rear view mirror that we've probably lapped it a few times.

That is no longer an option for this.  We can hope to learn and the next time something comes up we can treat it in a much healthier fashion.  But that's not going to happen anytime soon.

So the only viable solution i can see is confine the decision making to those who are most likely to actually care for the kid and are least concerned about politics.  And that would be the parents.

It's way too late to listen to anything from the 'trans' side.  It's beyond political and there's nothing you could trust from them

And forget the politicians  Trudeau: "THE PEOPLE WHO BROUGHT THIS LAW IN ARE THE MOST DISUGSTING BIGOTED TERRIBLE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD!!  Now - lets talk about it. "

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Provincial Health ministries. I don't know much about hormone blockers. It is my understanding that they are reversible.

Absolutely not and will probably leave the kid sterile. At best you can undo SOME of the damage

Quote

The thing is, a child knows if they are in the wrong body by the time they are in their early teens. They don't need someone else to tell them. It is a rare condition. Unfortunately, even with the best parents, teenagers tend to be loath to tell their parents anything about sex or gender.  

And that is simply not true.  As i've just posted in this article, And the younger they transition the more likelyl they are to regret it later. Nobody "knows who they are" at 13. Your body and your mind are about to undergo MASSIVE changes.

Here's the thing - if they're genuine trans when they're 13 - they're going to be trans when they're 18.  They can still transition then if they feel that this is what they should do and at that point the chances of them being wrong are very very  low.

Quote

When a youth does inform her parent that she wants to transition to a male, the best response for the parent is to be supportive and loving because nothing the parent or anyone else can say or do, is going to change that kid.

That's based on your years of clinical research?

Generally speaking a parent is always wise to be loving and supporting no matter what but that does NOT mean that they don't quesiton, they don't look at the situation and make ADULT decisions.  And then love them and support them as they deal with it.

Mommie - can i have candy for dinner? No.

Can i stay up all night watching tv before school?  No.

Can i have medical treatment that will permanently alter my body and change my entire life based on some feelings i have now as a child?  Yeah - sure you probably know best right?

[Zeitgeist]

23 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Provincial Health ministries. I don't know much about hormone blockers. It is my understanding that they are reversible. The thing is, a child knows if they are in the wrong body by the time they are in their early teens. They don't need someone else to tell them. It is a rare condition. Unfortunately, even with the best parents, teenagers tend to be loath to tell their parents anything about sex or gender.  

When a youth does inform her parent that she wants to transition to a male, the best response for the parent is to be supportive and loving because nothing the parent or anyone else can say or do, is going to change that kid. 

In almost all cases, no one cares more about a child than that child’s parent, and no one knows that child as well except perhaps a sibling.  We have to assume that parents are going to act in their children’s interests, because if not them, then who?  We already do this when we understand that parents raise their kids, feed, house, and clothe them, teach them morals, take them to the doctor and school, etc.

We have to be careful not to let a very passionate and small group of activists dictate how we should parent, educate, and live, which is what’s quietly happened incrementally over the past few years.  We need legislated protections to prevent such agendas from prevailing in our institutions of learning, government, and organizations.  We already see it in EDI training that sorts people into victims and oppressors based on race and intersectionality.  Simple charity has turned into social justice crusades on gender ideology and other highly debatable causes.

We have to protect essential longstanding women’s, children’s, and religious rights, not just trans and LGBTQ+ rights, which are having an outsized influence in public education to which most people never consented.

Edited February 3 by Zeitgeist

[CdnFox]

23 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

In almost all cases, no one cares more about a child than that child’s parent, and no one knows that child as well except perhaps a sibling.  We have to assume that parents are going to act in their children’s interests, because if not them, then who?  We already do this when we understand that parents raise their kids, feed, house, and clothe them, teach them morals, take them to the doctor and school, etc.

We have to be careful not to let a very passionate and small group of activists dictate how we should parent, educate, and live, which is what’s quietly happened incrementally over the past few years.  We need legislated protections to prevent such agendas from prevailing in our institutions of learning, government, and organizations.  We already see it in EDI training that sorts people into victims and oppressors based on race and intersectionality.  Simple charity has turned into social justice crusades on gender ideology and other highly debatable causes.

We have to protect essential longstanding women’s, children’s, and religious rights, not just trans and LGBTQ+ rights, which are having an outsized influence in public education to which most people never consented.

And at some point the kid becomes an adult and will be able to make their own decisions.  And everyone's fine with that -  an 18 year old might still be pretty much a kid but at the end of the day if they've lived with it that long they know and they can make a life altering change. 

Sure - it would be easier to change before puberty. I get that.  If you believe you're a guy nothing like growing a pair of large brests to ruin your day.  But - a few challenging years vs a lifetime of regret just can't compare.