New Axis of tyrants is a reality

[myata]

The West is on the decline, the descending arc. This not philosophy, only factual, objective observation: pretending, convincing oneself that all is granted and assured no matter what you do or don't; talking the necessary, pressing decisions and acts to boring infinity and some; pretending that words, any number of them can be converted into acts, and results; avoiding necessary bold decisions for any reason or pretext just because it appears safer to not do anything outrageous (all is granted and assured no matter, see above).

This comes with old age and decline. And the thugs and dictators over the world can smell it: the decay, and weakness.

While the West was partying, and praying to Holy Economy and Globalization as the universal panacea for all problems forever, briefly interrupted by chanting cheerful mantras with long forgotten meaning, the dictators remembered one constant, all-time law of the Time and evolution: nothing will last forever; every empire; great and lofty idea, principle and claim will be tested by the reality; it's only a matter of time, when not if.

So while the great mindless party went on, the dictators waited, planned, prepared: and built.

Iran built a network of proxy quasy-states, highly ideological militarized and ready to act.

China has massively upgraded its economy as with it, military might. It peddled influence, through investments and dependence, in the far corners of the world

Putin has built a defining, at some point, dependence of the Western world on its resources. Something that even a decade on after he started the first aggressive war in Europe since WWII West is still struggling, real and hard to wean off. He invested massively into its military might.

And then, at an apparent moment of weakness, they set things into motion. Every empire, union, idea and claim will be tested by the reality.

Did the West come ready, for the exam? The answer is before our eyes. Encouraged by what they saw: West had two years to mobilize, act and make important decisions, the tyrants are spreading and widening the offensive.

West is always two steps behind; reacting, never acting ahead. Dragging and postponing important decisions, and then again. Why though? What's the strategy? What miracles could and will happen? Will you be able to avoid, then run away from the fight that is brought upon you, forever?

No winning answers, or strategy. Decline of thought, will and resolve. The dead end, next?

In its current position, the collective West has three essentially different options:

1. Face and stand up the challenges boldly and decisively. This is not happening, by fact, and some historians in the far future if there's one will examine the reasons that I really don't care about. If a train is running and one fails to jump out of its way the outcome is the reason. The fact, too.

2. Submit to the demands, cower in the hope of delaying the decline. Repeat N cycles, until the obvious conclusion.

3. Play the delay and procrastination game in the (vane and groundless) hope that something, somehow would offer a miraculous solution. It won't happen. The dictators have a goal, they know what they want and they learned how to rule forever with brutality and lies. The West, appears to not have one. Even the most basic, that its about its own survival, it cannot seem to grasp. With all that before our eyes, the importance and urgency of the decisions haven't caught up. Is there still hope here?

The current generation of leaders are leading the West, through the option 3 to 2, where all will and resolve is drained by endless, gradual cutting and bleeding, to the inevitable demise. No good news down this path. Every empire has fallen. Every great idea and claim will be tested by the reality. It's the reality: not the great words and claims that will announce the judgement.

 

Edited January 14 by myata

[Nationalist]

And how did this decline happen? Can it be reversed?

What ideology lead to this?

Liberalism.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

And how did this decline happen? Can it be reversed?

What ideology lead to this?

Liberalism.

The largest accumulation of wealth in history... how do you explain that?

3 hours ago, myata said:

  Every empire has fallen. Every great idea and claim will be tested by the reality. It's the reality: not the great words and claims that will announce the judgement.

 

Falling isn't the same as utter collapse.

These are challenges. What will emerge is by no means certain. China's decisions are made at the top as are Russia's and Iran.  They don't exactly trust each other either.

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

The largest accumulation of wealth in history... how do you explain that?

Capitalism.

[OftenWrong]

22 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Capitalism.

Yep. That and colonialism. Mr. White is enjoying his privileges.

[myata]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

They don't exactly trust each other either.

Sure, it's easier to smirk it away. But Iran and Russia worked very well in Syria. Now they are working very well again, in Ukraine and the Middle East. Plus North Korea and China, in the background. This is the reality, the facts by the way: not some eternal abstract wisdom. The future is all but assured and guaranteed now. Why bother to shift wise and hard-working ar*es.

[Michael Hardner]

27 minutes ago, myata said:

Sure, it's easier to smirk it away. But Iran and Russia worked very well in Syria. Now they are working very well again, in Ukraine and the Middle East. Plus North Korea and China, in the background. This is the reality, the facts by the way: not some eternal abstract wisdom. The future is all but assured and guaranteed now. Why bother to shift wise and hard-working ar*es.

I'm here acknowledging that there's a challenge, and you on the other hand are saying that the future is certain.

Here's some abstract wisdom: single points of command are weaker than collaborative decision teams.  China's president directly issues military orders without consulting with a committee such as the joint chiefs second one of staff first .China and Russia don't trust each other.  Nothing is certain but uncertainty.

Edited January 14 by Michael Hardner

[myata]

28 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Nothing is certain but uncertainty.

I would have to disagree, respectfully. Think that anyone with an objective view of the reality would have to as well. If the West continues its current attitude of assured and guaranteed supremacy, combined with ever growing indecision and infinitesimal observable act (the less you do, the less chance that you'd blamed for the consequences) then it could be quite near certain that it won't advance to the next age in the same condition and status. Why would it? Dinosaurs didn't.

[TreeBeard]

The decline of Western democracies are a result of losing our moral high-ground.  Losing the moral high-ground didn’t happen because of liberals. It happened because we don’t live up to the ideals we set.  It started in Vietnam and continued in Iraq.  If you don’t live by your own ethical standards, what have you got to oppose those who are even worse?

Edited January 15 by TreeBeard

[Moonlight Graham]

21 hours ago, Nationalist said:

And how did this decline happen? Can it be reversed?

What ideology lead to this?

Liberalism.

Decadence.

You probably mean leftism, not liberalism.  Leftism is really but a side effect of decadence.  Leftism is just as destructive as conservatism can be, maybe even more so, because its goal is to destroy hierarchies, which means destroying the strong to make everyone more "equal",  while also often coddling people and making them weaker at the same time, instead of empowering them.  The goal of our society seems to be "comfort", which is a terrible one.

Parents are raising ever-increasing generations of spoiled, entitled, coddled, and selfish people.  We used to be raised to be responsible, hardworking, and independent.  Oops.  Side effect of decadence:  we're too well-off for our own good.

A society of ever-increasing weak people and led by weak people will inevitably decline and become dominated by other civilizations and we're seeing it play out.  The West didn't become the most wealthy and powerful civilization in the world by embracing weakness.

The only cure might be economic hardship to force people out of their comfort.  The decline needs to happen before the civilization itself is extinct.

Edited January 15 by Moonlight Graham

[Nationalist]

4 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Decadence.

You probably mean leftism, not liberalism.  Leftism is really but a side effect of decadence.  Leftism is just as destructive as conservatism can be, maybe even more so, because its goal is to destroy hierarchies, which means destroying the strong to make everyone more "equal",  while also often coddling people and making them weaker at the same time, instead of empowering them.  The goal of our society seems to be "comfort", which is a terrible one.

Parents are raising ever-increasing generations of spoiled, entitled, coddled, and selfish people.  We used to be raised to be responsible, hardworking, and independent.  Oops.  Side effect of decadence:  we're too well-off for our own good.

A society of ever-increasing weak people and led by weak people will inevitably decline and become dominated by other civilizations and we're seeing it play out.  The West didn't become the most wealthy and powerful civilization in the world by embracing weakness.

The only cure might be economic hardship to force people out of their comfort.  The decline needs to happen before the civilization itself is extinct.

Good point. Leftism. Wokism. Liberalism gone insane. 

At what point do these people see the destruction they bring, and stop? ANTIFA, BLM, The Democrat Party. The Canadian Liberals. All guided by the same objective. To destroy society.

[Nationalist]

20 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Yep. That and colonialism. Mr. White is enjoying his privileges.

And the "refugees" these Libbies invited into Europe...the seed of the Caucasian people...are enjoying Mr. White's daughters.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8663/germany-migrants-rape

And sons apparently. 

Edited January 15 by Nationalist

[OftenWrong]

8 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

The decline of Western democracies are a result of losing our moral high-ground.

Exactly. The decline of religion and rise of atheism.   

 

[Nationalist]

33 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Exactly. The decline of religion and rise of atheism.   

 

This is true.

[myata]

8 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

A society of ever-increasing weak people and led by weak people will inevitably decline and become dominated by other civilizations and we're seeing it play out.  The West didn't become the most wealthy and powerful civilization in the world by embracing weakness.

Well said. Weakness appears these days as a virtue; wisdom and the greatly desired stance. That works only on the huge assumption that nothing is going to change, ever and the future is guaranteed and assured no matter what. That is a falsity and dumbness on an enormous, astounding scale. But it only takes wanting to believe it, shutting the eyes and the brain. When, where did we (humans) would refuse such an attractive proposition?

[sharkman]

Let's widen the focus a little to take in the last 60 plus years.  Does anyone disagree that attacking Afghanistan in response to 9/11 was folly?(As if their government had anything to do with it)  As was attacking Iraq when all of the terrorists were Saudi nationals.  I fully supported both responses at the time, and it wasn't until years later I began to understand that Bush Jr(and Cheney) was not trustworthy.  There really weren't WMD in Iraq.  Saddam didn't need to be deposed.  Neither did Gaddafi.  Neither did leaders in South America or Asia(Vietnam, Korea).  The US has been very busy in the last 60+ years, have they not? 

We speak of decadence, but there is something else at play I think.  Something that goes beyond politics, religion or any of the other usual suspects.  In that time frame, 2 presidents have been shot, and one forced to resign.  Historic economy crashes in 1980 and 2008.  So many military actions that you can call the US anything but peaceful.  And I don't quite know how to label 9/11.  Really, I don't know what to make of it. 

Perhaps my perspective is off, but Kennedy being taken out seemed to change the course of the nation.  The very next day, Johnson entered the country into the Vietnam war, the most disgusting waste of American blood and treasure that accomplished nothing.  I don't think it would be wrong to say that there is a lot of justified hatred that has been earned by the US around the globe since then.  What has the US become? 

Eisenhower warned his nation in 1961 of the dangers of a Military Industrial Complex.  It seems this entity has benefited greatly in the last 60 years.  But other than that, I really have no answers.  I'm glad to see others can recognize that the American empire has been in decline, because many on this forum seem blissfully unaware. 

It is inevitable that another power or alliance would form to oppose what America has become.  An powerful economic union has formed in the BRICS nations.  They now have over 40% of global GDP and a similar percentage of oil production.  While Biden tries to wean his nation off of fossil fuels, an economic catastrophe is brewing.  This will only aid BRICS. 

In all of this, I feel like a farmer.  I can not change the weather one whit.  I can only stick my head out the window and say it's raining.

 

Edited January 18 by sharkman

[Moonbox]

On 1/14/2024 at 12:17 PM, myata said:

I would have to disagree, respectfully. Think that anyone with an objective view of the reality would have to as well.

You can disagree all you want, but "Nothing is certain except for uncertainty" is a pretty silly thing to disagree with.  

I don't really disagree with a lot of your thoughts and concerns, but they're vague and open-ended, so how certain are you, really?  How can you say that "anyone with an objective view of reality" has to agree with you, if you're not really even being specific about your warnings?

Is the US going to collapse, or just lose its global hegemony?  Are we talking about Pax Americana and the West at large? Who's going to supplant them?  When and how is this going to happen?  

If you can't answer those questions with certainty, can you not then accept there's a lot of...uncertainty?  

[eyeball]

On 1/14/2024 at 7:17 PM, TreeBeard said:

 It started in Vietnam and continued in Iraq.

I've always pegged it as staring in Iran 1953, when Britain seduced the US into participating in Operation Ajax.

Dictatorships started blooming everywhere following that.

2 hours ago, sharkman said:

Eisenhower warned his nation in 1961 of the dangers of a Military Industrial Complex.

Probably feeling guilty after Operation Ajax and the monster he helped create.

[myata]

8 hours ago, Moonbox said:

If you can't answer those questions with certainty, can you not then accept there's a lot of...uncertainty? 

In a sort of tautological way, if one couldn't be certain in their own principles, will and act any longer, it would create uncertainty. My point of clarification rather than disagreement, OK is that much of this uncertainty has been and is being created by the West itself. By its intellectual weakness; by hypocrisy, love for realpolitik over the principles; by giving in to relaxation and entertainment, illusions over precise and objective view and analysis of the reality; weakness of will and resolve so many others.

[athos]

On 1/14/2024 at 8:09 PM, Nationalist said:

And how did this decline happen? Can it be reversed?

What ideology lead to this?

Liberalism.

World economic forum is trying to help people of the West. The message to the elite was very clear.

😀

 

[athos]

 

Remember this from WEF 2016, "You'll own nothing and you'll be happy"

[Moonbox]

On 1/19/2024 at 1:09 AM, myata said:

In a sort of tautological way, if one couldn't be certain in their own principles, will and act any longer, it would create uncertainty.

There's nothing tautological about it.  I said you were being really vague and I asked you some specific questions, and you ignored them and responded with more vagueness.  

On 1/19/2024 at 1:09 AM, myata said:

My point of clarification rather than disagreement, OK is that much of this uncertainty has been and is being created by the West itself. By its intellectual weakness; by hypocrisy, love for realpolitik over the principles; by giving in to relaxation and entertainment, illusions over precise and objective view and analysis of the reality; weakness of will and resolve so many others.

This isn't clarification.  It's not precise or objective.  Be specific.  Give us an example of something you think needs to change, and even one suggestion of how we could improve on it.  

[myata]

9 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Give us an example of something you think needs to change, and even one suggestion of how we could improve on it.  

Well, one just needs to remember how it's done; have the will and energy for it. Remember (it takes working memory) why it was important, in the past. Then, try it. Have some courage and perseverance in case the very first attempt wouldn't work or wouldn't achieve all what desired. Keep thinking and making intelligent choices and changes. Keep trying till it works better and on, till the objective is achieved and problem solved.

And above all, then: don't stop it! It would bring you right back to square one.

The problem of the West is that it wanted and actively sought to stop thinking; acting; making positive changes; and achieving new results. And it's not just the elites, a big, resounding NO: it's us, the people as always. It is us who stopped thinking, accepting the second of the best, then choosing among the worst; getting by with just getting by and mediocre. And the elites were fine with it as well. The order they have helped to create is working very fine for them thank you!

But you would be wrong to blame it on the elites for one simple reason: it's you who stopped thinking, and making. The miracle, a magical wand that would let you push a button once in the ages and then go back to blissful, dumb and mindless nirvana of gobbling, dancing and entertaining yourself to the mindless blank, sending all inconveniences and problems to some vague faraway just didn't exist. Every single generation in our human history has tried to find this Grail of laziness and mindless killing of our time here, always with the same result and to the same outcome. No, you have to think and you have to work. Or you'll become an animal. Why do you need this thing on your head, then?

Edited January 23 by myata

[Moonbox]

12 hours ago, myata said:

Well, one just needs to remember how it's done; have the will and energy for it. Remember (it takes working memory) why it was important, in the past. Then, try it.

Try what?  Do what?  These are bromidic marshmallows - truisms that don't mean anything.   

Be less lazy? Be smarter and make more intelligent choices? Who's advocating for the opposite?  

[myata]

10 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Who's advocating for the opposite?  

There's a difference between "advocating" and making, achieving. Somehow we, and our governments how else, forgot. Again.