OH CANADA, how low we've sunk

[Perspektiv]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

but it is OK to kill 10 times as many

I don't understand how war is ever okay.

Its not about being okay. Its about your right to defend yourself as a sovereign country. Doesn't make it okay, it just makes it your lawful right to do so. Nothing more, nothing less.

That is what this boils down to.

Don't want Gaza bombed, don't invade a country, and mutilate innocent civilians in Israel.

This isn't a tit for tat body for body war, this is a "you entered our country and killed innocent civilians" "we will completely disable and cut your head straight off your shoulders, and render you as inoperable as possible" (Hamas).

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

so just kill em all?

You must make a decision based on the person you're trying to kill. If Israel is trying to take out a top official hiding among the crowd, and the intel confirms the kill shot is ready, you have to make a decision. Make the kill, or let him live, knowing they will orchestrate and mastermind further attacks. A simple soldier wouldn't justify 400 lives.

One must understand that in war, PR games don't apply. You're in a state of war. If an asset outweighs the lives of 400 souls, you make the kill.

I don't think you can wipe out Hamas, without a catastrophic human toll that in my opinion would be unacceptable.

However, if you can severely cripple them and set them back decades, and keep deaths under a certain threshold, you've bought yourself peace for a while, and given yourself more leverage in peace talks.

3 hours ago, taxme said:

1200 Israelis dead. Over 12000 Palestinians dead. Not very equal looking to me.

This is because you're looking at things from the eyes of one trying to match innocent civilian death tolls, and not one trying to seriously cripple those who orchestrated the acts against innocent civilians while crossing into sovereign territory.

[herbie]

Stop making sense! These radicals teach their children to confront tanks with slingshots and then want your pity if they get steam-rolled. Obviously used that aid money to buy thousands and thousands of rockets to launch at Israel and hide under hospitals and day cares.

Israel is doing a military response and obviously a ceasefire to let Hamas regroup and rearm is about the stupidest thing they could do militarily.

Let those who want to yell and petition and spout their meaningless "'think of the children, (ours not yours)" carry on their useless babble.

[myata]

7 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Don't want Gaza bombed, don't invade a country

Wow, such an epiphany. So does that wisdom apply to any invasion and a bloody dictator behind it? Let's see. Have you tried replacing "Gaza" up there with "Russia"? How did it work for you?!

Edited November 6, 2023 by myata

[Perspektiv]

7 hours ago, herbie said:

Let those who want to yell and petition

I laugh at those who do, as none of them were protesting thousands of innocent civilians being brutally killed by Isis. 

Protests for the thousands in Yemen being  ruthlessly slaughtered? Crickets.

Muslims or those practicing Islam killing thousands of innocent civilians in the most brutal of fashion? Ok. Nothing to see here.

I could go on. But Jews defending their sovereignty? 

Stop the genocide! This is wrong! What about the kids?!

[ExFlyer]

21 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re missing the critical distinction. Israel didn’t do a surprise attack on civilians to start this.  Israel’s mission is to root out Hamas, not kill innocent people.

how do you know that??  You imagine that analysis?? I am very aware of what happens and when and by whom.

Well, with such a sophisticated and modern military, "Israel's mission" is an abject failure as they are killing many men, women, children and babies that are not hamas.

[ironstone]

13 hours ago, taxme said:

1200 Israelis dead. Over 12000 Palestinians dead. Not very equal looking to me. It sure looks to me like Israel is trying to make up for lost time. Just saying. 

Does that figure of 12000 come from Hamas? Any reporters that are in Gaza are allowed to see only what Hamas allows them to see.

[ironstone]

14 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Yeah sure LOL

Ya wanna keep playin or are you smart enough to drop it and not respond to me?

You haven't been paying the slightest attention to what's being said at many of these pro-Palestinian/Hamas protests have you?

White liberals!?

[ironstone]

23 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

how do you know that??  You imagine that analysis?? I am very aware of what happens and when and by whom.

Well, with such a sophisticated and modern military, "Israel's mission" is an abject failure as they are killing many men, women, children and babies that are not hamas.

Even with the most sophisticated military, it's got to be virtually impossible to to avoid those human shields.

Or do you deny that Hamas does in fact have a longstanding practice of using their own women and children as human shields?

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, ironstone said:

You haven't been paying the slightest attention to what's being said at many of these pro-Palestinian/Hamas protests have you?

White liberals!?

I pay attention. So? Any different than what is being said in Israel about arabs?  Thing is, the demonstrations are happening all over the world and not just one country...Israel. And i think they are pro Palestine, not hamas

Interesting that during this crisis in Israel they demonstrate to have their prime minister to quit.

 

1 hour ago, ironstone said:

Even with the most sophisticated military, it's got to be virtually impossible to to avoid those human shields.

Or do you deny that Hamas does in fact have a longstanding practice of using their own women and children as human shields?

So, bombing refugee camps and the only hospital in the city is OK and the collateral deaths are fine???

Whenever you have situations like this where non uniformed combatants are aggressors, there will always be "hidden" fighters. Can't tell the enemy from ordinary people so kill em all.

Edited November 6, 2023 by ExFlyer

[ironstone]

4 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I pay attention. So? Any different than what is being said in Israel?  (except in Israel they want the prime minister to quit too).

 

So, bombing refugee camps and the only hospital in the city is OK and the collateral deaths are fine???

Don't want to even acknowledge  the human shield tactic do you?

 

[ExFlyer]

3 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Don't want to even acknowledge  the human shield tactic do you?

 

I edited a response to this while you were posting. read above

To repeat, Thing is, you cannot tell the good guys from the bad guys so assume all are bad and kill everyone, even babies in refugee camps and hospitals.?

Edited November 6, 2023 by ExFlyer

[betsy]

20 hours ago, eyeball said:

I wonder what the world sees when we openly sent Jewish refugees packing and then secretly welcomed Nazi refugees.

Its not like Canada has fallen from a great height of any sort - I see it as more like a continuous stumbling.

 

 

I suppose that's just one bumbling thing after another.  

What was the last fiasco? The one with India - every one suddenly got quiet about that.   Lol - the western world have been romancing India - until Trudeau came along with his accusations!  Perhaps, everyone is keeping a distance from Trudeau......hence, no support even from the USA about our citizens trapped in Gaza.

 

I saw a photo shoot on tv with that latest summit.  Trudeau was positioned at the end - far from USA.

 

We've been sunk by Trudeau!

We're not taken seriously anymore on the world stage  - that's an understatement.

Edited November 6, 2023 by betsy

[betsy]

So - has any Canadian citizen came out of Gaza on Sunday?

 

As far as I know (unless I'm wrong) - no one came out.   And the border has been closed again.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by betsy

[blackbird]

What I don't understand is why does Hamas still have some control of the Rafah border crossing and decide who can leave the country?

I thought Hamas was being hunted down by the IDF and be in hiding by now.  So how is it they are actually controlling and having a say in who crosses the border from Gaza to Egypt?  They must be far more powerful than I thought.

[Perspektiv]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

how do you know that??

The fact they have a microscope on them. The US will not tolerate them straying too far from international laws. It puts pressure on them, too.

Also, they by default have had no choice but to answer to criticism, as well as have documented proof of bunkers, war rooms and images proving some of their highly critized bombings were justified.

Find me a single Hamas spokesperson who admits to atrocities committed or answers to them.

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

as they are killing many men, women, children and babies that are not hamas.

How would you go about it? Give a firm warning to Hamas not to do it again? Call it a truce as they pinky swore on Allah?

You need to tell us how you would react to a blatant violation of your sovereignty. This absolutely cannot go unanswered. So peace talks is out of the question. Sorry, but breaching borders is an act of war.

You can't spank Hamas after this. You have to kick them hard in the nads cleet shoes and all. Then you sever the head off the shoulders.

This makes them more erratic, but less organized.

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Thing is, you cannot tell the good guys from the bad guys

Correct. However, Israel is legally entitled to fight right now.

But the obtuse amounts of civilian deaths make them straddle a moral line that will require a lot of explaining and evidence, should it continue.

[ExFlyer]

5 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

The fact they have a microscope on them. The US will not tolerate them straying too far from international laws. It puts pressure on them, too.

Also, they by default have had no choice but to answer to criticism, as well as have documented proof of bunkers, war rooms and images proving some of their highly critized bombings were justified.

........

How would you go about it? ......

You need to tell us how you would react t....

.....

.....

Correct. However, Israel is legally entitled to fight right now.

But the obtuse amounts of civilian deaths make them straddle a moral line that will require a lot of explaining and evidence, should it continue.

The US has already asked them to pause.... no joy

There is no "documented proof of bunkers, war rooms and images proving some of their highly critized bombings were justified." that has been seen.

Why ask me, it ain't my war or issue and like I have said before, give em both as many weapons as they want and let them wipe each other out.

The "obtuse" amounts of civilian deaths is undefendable, no matter how right you think they are.

 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, betsy said:

We've been sunk by Trudeau!

Everything was groovy till Trudeau?

Oh well, things will be right as rain in no time with PP in charge.

Just in case though, how long does PP get to blame things on JT?

[CdnFox]

8 hours ago, myata said:

Wow, such an epiphany. So does that wisdom apply to any invasion and a bloody dictator behind it? Let's see. Have you tried replacing "Gaza" up there with "Russia"? How did it work for you?!

Pretty good actually - if russia doesn't want to get bombed or have it's ships sunk or it's tanks blown up or it's people killed they shoudn't invade ukraine

But at least Russia had the common sense to not go after someone 100 times better armed than they were. If you're a 14 year old kid named "urkle" - maybe don't pick a fight with someone named 'hulk hogan' if you don't like getting punched in the face

[ironstone]

5 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I edited a response to this while you were posting. read above

To repeat, Thing is, you cannot tell the good guys from the bad guys so assume all are bad and kill everyone, even babies in refugee camps and hospitals.?

That is categorically not what the IDF is doing. You mentioned the bombing of the hospital earlier. Are you talking about about the blast in the parking lot next to the hospital? The circumstantial evidence all points to a failed Hamas rocket and not the IDF. In that particular case, most of the MSM just ran with what Hamas told them from the get-go. And I must point out once again that Hamas has or had a headquarters in a hospital. Why? Because either they are protected by the human shield patients above, or if the IDF attacks, they also win because of civilian casualties.

It's well known that the IDF warns civilians to get out of harms way. Hamas gives no such warnings. And they also order their own citizens to stay put.

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, ironstone said:

That is categorically not what the IDF is doing. You mentioned the bombing of the hospital earlier. Are you talking about about the blast in the parking lot next to the hospital? The circumstantial evidence all points to a failed Hamas rocket and not the IDF. In that particular case, most of the MSM just ran with what Hamas told them from the get-go. And I must point out once again that Hamas has or had a headquarters in a hospital. Why? Because either they are protected by the human shield patients above, or if the IDF attacks, they also win because of civilian casualties.

It's well known that the IDF warns civilians to get out of harms way. Hamas gives no such warnings. And they also order their own citizens to stay put.

In the parking lot??

Circumstantial evidence??

How do they inform considering they knocked out all electricity and water and infrastructure. Did they walk in and pass out notes to where the next bomb or rocket will be dropped?

Give up trying to make me see things your way. Go stroke others of your ilk till you ejaculate, you will get more satisfaction LOL

Once again, give them all the weapons they want and let them wipe each other off the face of the earth.

[herbie]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Everything was groovy till Trudeau?

Of course. How DARE he condemn India for murdering Canadians on Canadian soil. Who does he think he is the leader of a real country?

Buy the whole conspiracy: the 5 Eyes only told him that because our own allies don't trust us!

and Justin made my toast burn this morning too!

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Of course. How DARE he condemn India for murdering Canadians on Canadian soil. Who does he think he is the leader of a real country?

The question is how dare he do it before the investigation concludes and we can back up what we're saying.  At least get the allies on board with you so it's not just you alone.

But nope - no proof, no allies, no nuthin' - just randomly accuse people of crap.  Meanwhile ignore the fact that the chinese actually did interfere in our elections while we have proof of that.

[ironstone]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

In the parking lot??

Circumstantial evidence??

How do they inform considering they knocked out all electricity and water and infrastructure. Did they walk in and pass out notes to where the next bomb or rocket will be dropped?

Give up trying to make me see things your way. Go stroke others of your ilk till you ejaculate, you will get more satisfaction LOL

Once again, give them all the weapons they want and let them wipe each other off the face of the earth.

Guess I struck a nerve when you are confronted by facts. Seems you are losing your temper just like so many of those protesters.

If Hamas, Hezbollah and their kind lay down their arms, then there could be peace. They clearly have no interest in that.

[ExFlyer]

10 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Guess I struck a nerve when you are confronted by facts. Seems you are losing your temper just like so many of those protesters.

If Hamas, Hezbollah and their kind lay down their arms, then there could be peace. They clearly have no interest in that.

Nope. No facts just hearsay and rhetoric from you.

No temper to lose.

"Once again, give them all the weapons they want and let them wipe each other off the face of the earth. "

[cougar]

22 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Don't want Gaza bombed, don't invade a country, and mutilate innocent civilians in Israel.

This isn't a tit for tat body for body war, this is a "you entered our country and killed innocent civilians" "we will completely disable and cut your head straight off your shoulders, and render you as inoperable as possible" (Hamas).

Looks like the Brits messed up this part of the World too by creating a country out of thin air and dispossessing the local Muslim population of their land.

With this in mind what you claim to be "invading a country" may just be a rebellion by the Muslim to liberate and retake their lands.

Edited November 7, 2023 by cougar