Israeli ministry 'concept paper' proposes transferring Gaza civilians to Egypt's Sinai, with Canada as a possible final destination

CdnFox · November 1, 2023

18 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Someone who is 66 probably uses a lot of healthcare.

I"m pretty sure he meant 66 in dog years.

CdnFox · November 1, 2023

15 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

I don't support any murder but i understand why they were caused.

They were caused because some violent asswipes got it in their head that killing people is ok if you really want to. There simply is no justification of it and there's no rational 'why'. The gaza people are just horrible people and have no respect for life, and they demonstrated that.

The Israeli gov't is hitting military targets and if civillians choose to stand in between they're going to get killed. That's the way it is. In ww2 - 70,000 brit civillians were killed and 2 MILLION german civilians were killed. So are you saying that churchill was a 'terrorist' because he attacked the nazis? That the allies were wrong to fight back after attacked?

Sorry kiddo - That's war and they started a war knowing full well this is what would happen

blackbird · November 1, 2023

46 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

The cause of the attack of Hamas is the unjustice toward the palestinians

You still don't get it. Any perceived injustice does not justify murdering innocent civilians. Did you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? If so you need to read the Bible and believe it.

blackbird · November 1, 2023

38 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

I don't support any murder but i understand why they were caused.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. You try to justifying the terrorist attack but claim you don't support murder.

Gaétan · November 1, 2023

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

They were caused because some violent asswipes got it in their head that killing people is ok if you really want to. There simply is no justification of it and there's no rational 'why'. The gaza people are just horrible people and have no respect for life, and they demonstrated that.

The Israeli gov't is hitting military targets and if civillians choose to stand in between they're going to get killed. That's the way it is. In ww2 - 70,000 brit civillians were killed and 2 MILLION german civilians were killed. So are you saying that churchill was a 'terrorist' because he attacked the nazis? That the allies were wrong to fight back after attacked?

Sorry kiddo - That's war and they started a war knowing full well this is what would happen

Hitler did unjustice and Churchill respond to the unjustice but the unjustice now is made by Netanyahu and i understand that the Hamas responds to that. Hitler went to Poland and Netanyahu went to steal palestinian land and kept palestinians in Gaza prison.

Gaétan · November 1, 2023

5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You still don't get it. Any perceived injustice does not justify murdering innocent civilians. Did you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? If so you need to read the Bible and believe it.

There is no justification for murdering innocent people or anybody innocent or not but i understand why there was a murder.

cougar · November 1, 2023

24 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The gaza people are just horrible people and have no respect for life, and they demonstrated that.

You may want to read some history.

=============================================================

During World War I the British government issued the Balfour Declaration, favoring the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine. The British captured Palestine from the Ottomans shortly thereafter. The League of Nations gave Britain mandatory power over Palestine in 1922. British colonial rule and Arab efforts to prevent Jewish migration into Palestine led to growing sectarian violence between Arabs and Jews, eventually causing the British government to announce its intention to terminate the Mandate in 1947. The United Nations General Assembly recommended partitioning Palestine into two states; one Arab and one Jewish. However, the situation in Palestine had deteriorated into a civil war between Arabs and Jews. The Arabs rejected the Partition Plan, the Jews ostensibly accepted it, declaring the independence of the State of Israel in May 1948 upon the termination of the British mandate. Nearby Arab countries invaded Palestine, but Israel not only prevailed but also conquered far more territory of the Mandate than envisioned by the Partition Plan. During the war, 700,000, or about 80% of all Palestinians fled or were driven out of the territory that Israel conquered, and were not allowed to return, in an event that became known as the Nakba ("Catastrophe") to the Palestinians. Starting in the late 1940s and continuing for decades thereafter, about 850,000 Jews from the Arab world immigrated ("made Aliyah") to Israel.

After the war, only two parts of Palestine remained in Arab control: the West Bank (and East-Jerusalem), annexed by Jordan, and the Gaza Strip (occupied by Egypt), which were conquered by Israel during the Six-Day War in 1967. Despite international objections, Israel started to establish settlements in these occupied territories.^[1] Meanwhile, the Palestinian national movement gradually gained international recognition, largely thanks to the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO, founded in 1965) under the leadership of Yasser Arafat. In 1993, the Oslo Peace Accords between Israel and the PLO established the Palestinian National Authority (PA) as an interim body to run parts of Gaza and the West Bank (but not East Jerusalem) pending a permanent solution to the conflict. Further peace developments were not ratified and/or implemented, and in recent history, relations between Israel and Palestinians have been marked by repeated military conflicts, especially with the Islamist group Hamas, which also rejects the PA. In 2007, Hamas won control of Gaza from the PA, now limited to the West Bank. In November 2012, the State of Palestine (the name used by the PA) became a non-member observer state in the UN, allowing it to take part in General Assembly debates and improving its chances of joining other UN agencies.

Nexii · November 1, 2023

Comparing the capabilities of Hamas to Nazi Germany is laughable. Nazi Germany was the most technologically advanced country of its time, with a population ready and trained for the biggest land war humanity has ever seen.

Gaza is 2 million people in a prison camp with no industry to speak of. No capability to make its own food or fuel, and no official government to organize under.

A better analog for Hamas would be the IRA

Edited November 1, 2023 by Nexii

ironstone · November 1, 2023

4 hours ago, Gaétan said:

This is the propaganda of racists, there is a problem of your values.

Are you not aware of any of the many number of worldwide protests in Western democracies? Have you not heard the kind of things many of these protesters are saying?

Jewish students report fear as antisemitism rises on college campuses - The Washington Post

And you say there is a problem with my values?

CdnFox · November 1, 2023

2 hours ago, Gaétan said:

Hitler did unjustice and Churchill respond to the unjustice but the unjustice now is made by Netanyahu and i understand that the Hamas responds to that.

Nope. Hamas did the injusice. Pure and simple.

People like you always point to the past. Hitler blamed the treaty of versilles for HIS injustices and said HIS injustices were a reaction to the British/french/American injustices.

But it's just not the way it works.

Hamas and Gaza initiated the violence, Israel is responding.

Gaétan · November 1, 2023

27 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Nope. Hamas did the injusice. Pure and simple.

People like you always point to the past. Hitler blamed the treaty of versilles for HIS injustices and said HIS injustices were a reaction to the British/french/American injustices.

But it's just not the way it works.

Hamas and Gaza initiated the violence, Israel is responding.

No the unjustice came from Netanyahu who steals the territory of palestinians and keep palestinians in prison in Gaza and hamas responds to that, you have to take account of the history not only a particular event. The hamas revolt took place because what happened before.

Moonlight Graham · November 1, 2023

7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I agree with most of what you said except the climate change nonsense. Canada can’t do anything to reverse climate change, because doing anything that would make a quantifiable difference would simply run our economy into the ground and impoverish the population while shifting the emissions, jobs, and prosperity to China and other countries that either get a free pass or don’t care. That’s the “inconvenient truth”.

Canada has to accept reality and stop pretending that we can have high immigration, economic growth, and a modicum of affordability while also reversing climate change, which we don’t even fully understand. I say all this as a recovering environmentalist who drank the climate Kool Aid. It’s good to do smart affordable things to improve the environment. Anything more is stupid.

Many on the rightwing deny climate change is even a thing, the ones that do denied it for decades, and many conservatives in the US also don't want to do anything about.

Canada shouldn't destroy its economy, especially during an inflationary crisis, but they can do their part.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Moonlight Graham

CdnFox · November 1, 2023

29 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

No the unjustice came from Netanyahu who steals the territory of palestinians and keep palestinians in prison in Gaza and hamas responds to that, you have to take account of the history not only a particular event. The hamas revolt took place because what happened before.

Sorry but that's a lie.

The injustice happened when a bunch of murderous scumbags decided to kill a lot of civilians in the name of Gaza.

Period. That is the defining event. That is what started this conflict.

Your nonsense is just attempting to justify those murders and it's utter bullcrap. Stop trying to excuse murderers and terrorists. Nothing happened because of "before", it happened because these filth decided they wanted to kill people and start a war. Every single death in this war is on their hands.

Zeitgeist · November 1, 2023

8 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Many on the rightwing deny climate change is even a thing, the ones that do denied it for decades, and many conservatives in the US also don't want to do anything about.

Canada shouldn't destroy its economy, especially during an inflationary crisis, but they can do their part.

I always opposed carbon taxes and believed that cap and trade was better, but the truth is that most policies that make it costlier to do business and survive simply shift emissions, production and money out of Canada.

Moonlight Graham · November 1, 2023

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

I always opposed carbon taxes and believed that cap and trade was better, but the truth is that most policies that make it costlier to do business and survive simply shift emissions, production and money out of Canada.

We can all argue about solutions, the point is at least acknowledging there's a problem.

Zeitgeist · November 1, 2023

1 hour ago, ironstone said:

Are you not aware of any of the many number of worldwide protests in Western democracies? Have you not heard the kind of things many of these protesters are saying?

Jewish students report fear as antisemitism rises on college campuses - The Washington Post

And you say there is a problem with my values?

Exactly, but notice that Australia is screwed now just like Canada is screwed because they let in so many of these sketchy people who are now electing people and running organizations. They are the people running some of our universities and news organizations. Thank your equity, diversity and inclusion departments.

Gaétan · November 1, 2023

21 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sorry but that's a lie.

The injustice happened when a bunch of murderous scumbags decided to kill a lot of civilians in the name of Gaza.

Period. That is the defining event. That is what started this conflict.

Your nonsense is just attempting to justify those murders and it's utter bullcrap. Stop trying to excuse murderers and terrorists. Nothing happened because of "before", it happened because these filth decided they wanted to kill people and start a war. Every single death in this war is on their hands.

I don't support any murder of innocent people or not or anybody: soldiers, fighters, anybody but i can understand it. Example: A black guy is oppressed by white people in a school and finally he takes a gun and kills his oppressors, i don't support the murder but i understand why this event happened, it happened because of the unjustice made by white oppressors to the black student.

CdnFox · November 1, 2023

Just now, Gaétan said:

I don't support any murder of innocent people or not or anybody:

You absolutely support the murder of innocent people when you claim there was any kind of 'understanding' or justification.

Sorry but that IS support.

Here's a little point about how the english language works - in any sentence the word "but" erases anything that came before it.

So when you say "I don't support the murders BUT i totally understand it, what you're really saying is I sympathize with the murderers.

There is no excuse for what they did, there's no 'understanding' there's no empathy, NOTHING justifies what they did or even mitigates it.

And that started a war thats getting thosuands of their own people killed which they seem just fine with. I notice they're still shooting rockets and haven't surrendered.

Isreal is 100 percent justified in the wake of that kind of threat to do everything they're doing and it probably gets worse from here.

BeaverFever · November 2, 2023

8 hours ago, I am Groot said:

And Gaza voted in a terrorist group committed to the establishment of an Islamic state throughout the region.

Well I really don’t think the people knew what they were getting into. Hamas was elected just the one time over a decade ago as sort of a fluke and has held on through force since then. But at the time Hamas was elected they were claiming to be moderate with some of their internal factions actually being sincere about that. They ran a lot of charities and other vital public services that people valued (still do). The election’s alternative to Hamas alternative was the secular Palestinian Authority which was for a long time the de facto leader of Palestinians and ultimately recognized as such by Israel. However PA had been in a bit of disarray in the years following Arafat’s death and I believe there was some dissatisfaction with perceived corruption. In addition many felt that the PA had not done enough to stand up against increasing Israeli aggression. As previously mentioned, Israeli hardliners had assassinated their own Prime Minister, seized power soon afterward then took took a very aggressive hardline approach to Palestinians such as accelerating illegal settlements in the territories and especially electing Ariel Sharon, “the Butcher of Beirut” as Prime Minister despite the fact that Sharon had been found responsible by his own government for the massacre civilian refugees in Lebanon.

BeaverFever · November 2, 2023

10 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Even the moderate Muslims would qualify as far right in Canada in terms of their social views and views about women and sexual minorities.

No not even the moderate ones. But yes the non-moderate ones. So are you saying conservative views about women and sexual minorities have no place in Canada? I might agree with you there. Funny how today mainstream conservatives are trying to unite with Muslims for that same reason.

Edited November 2, 2023 by BeaverFever

Army Guy · November 2, 2023

11 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

i think you misrepresent Palestinians and Muslims here. First of all Palestinians are some of the most secular people in the Arab world and secondly many Palestinians including prominent ones are Christians.

Furthermore I think you unfairly criticize “muslim culture” as if it’s one thing as if they’re all conservative. In Canada the anti-muslim terrorist attacks carried have killed far more Muslims than any Muslim terrorist attacks. I’ll agree that religious conservatives of any type are incompatible with modern western society but if we tolerate Christian and Jewish ones however distasteful their beliefs are theres mo reason not to tolerate Muslims. Once again the fact being that Muslim terrorism is virtually non-existent despite constant failed conservative predictions to the contrary.

And now that many conservatives are starting to embrace Muslims as a useful ally in the latest culture war against the great tranny menace I think you’ll see less opposition from the right.

How so, are you suggesting PTSD is not a common factor when dealing with people from a war zone, or are you saying that there "not" many items in their culture that we in the west do not embrace, that Europe is not have major issues with their Muslim refugees. not sure how i misrepresented them...

I don't recall calling all of them conservative, what i did say is many of their cultural items or believes we do not see as positive. Please tell us what distasteful Christian or Jewish practices we tolerate...

CSIS reports well over 3000 Canadians going to fight for groups such as ISIS or other factions, thats a little more than almost non existent, and thats the ones we know of...and today we are having their women coming back and wanting back in the country...with that in mind I'm not painting all Muslims with the same brush just another example of how our cultures clash... And then there are the thousands who celebrate the Oct 7 terrorist attacks, in most major Canadian cities...not to mention CSIS reports on terrorist groups running charities here in Canada.

When is it right to cheer or support for a terrorist organization...

CdnFox · November 2, 2023

59 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Well I really don’t think the people knew what they were getting into. Hamas was elected just the one time over a decade ago as sort of a fluke and has held on through force since then

Hamas literally ran at the time with "destruction of isreal" as one of their platform planks.

They knew.

And elections have consequences. We're going to have to live with the destruction Justin has wrought on our country due to our choices - i'm afraid the gazans will have to live with their choices. Or die with them as the case may be at this point.

BeaverFever · November 2, 2023

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Hamas literally ran at the time with "destruction of isreal" as one of their platform planks.

They knew.

And elections have consequences. We're going to have to live with the destruction Justin has wrought on our country due to our choices - i'm afraid the gazans will have to live with their choices. Or die with them as the case may be at this point.

I don’t think that’s accurate. Hamas victory was narrow garnering 44% of the popular vote and 56% of the seats.
Furthermore I don’t believe that at the time they ran on a “destroy Israel” platform. in fact they ran under the party name “change and reform”Exit polling showed most voters who voted for Hamas did so for domestic/economic reasons and supported a 2-state solution with nearly 80% supporting peace with Israel amd nearly as many saying Has should change its policy towards Israel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election

At any rate collective punishment of civilians for the actions of their government is officially a war crime, no matter how anyone tries to justify it.

Zeitgeist · November 2, 2023

6 hours ago, Gaétan said:

I don't support any murder of innocent people or not or anybody: soldiers, fighters, anybody but i can understand it. Example: A black guy is oppressed by white people in a school and finally he takes a gun and kills his oppressors, i don't support the murder but i understand why this event happened, it happened because of the unjustice made by white oppressors to the black student.

Where is this happening? What anti-black school oppression can you reference today? You do realize that Israel has left Gaza alone for many years. It was run by thugs called Hamas that posed a serious security threat to Israel long before the attack. Gaza doesn’t have to be the way it is. Whatever Israel did with settlers doesn’t change the unnecessary bad behaviour of the terrorists.

Gaétan · November 2, 2023

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You absolutely support the murder of innocent people when you claim there was any kind of 'understanding' or justification.

Sorry but that IS support.

Here's a little point about how the english language works - in any sentence the word "but" erases anything that came before it.

So when you say "I don't support the murders BUT i totally understand it, what you're really saying is I sympathize with the murderers.

There is no excuse for what they did, there's no 'understanding' there's no empathy, NOTHING justifies what they did or even mitigates it.

And that started a war thats getting thosuands of their own people killed which they seem just fine with. I notice they're still shooting rockets and haven't surrendered.

Isreal is 100 percent justified in the wake of that kind of threat to do everything they're doing and it probably gets worse from here.

I don't support any murder of innocent people or not but you support the genocide of palestinians as i see. You won't have much chance after your live, you'll be in hell with the israelis army, Poilievre, Trudeau and Doug Ford