Should Hamas support rallies in Canada be stopped?

[impartialobserver]

1 minute ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Just a lot of innocent people sacrificed on both sides.

are your posts going to change the number of innocent people that will inevitably be killed in the future? You surely do not believe that this vicious cycle is going to stop anytime soon?

[CITIZEN_2015]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

 

One of the basic differences I would consider important is Islam does not believe that Jesus Christ is God.

This is an essential belief in Christianity.  He is the Son of God, the second person of the trinity.

 

So which one is it? The God or son of God? Me and my father were two different people not one lol.

[OftenWrong]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

No it's clearly the same god just worshipped differently is all.  

Next you'll be telling us god and the devil are the same as well.

    

[CITIZEN_2015]

4 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

are your posts going to change the number of innocent people that will inevitably be killed in the future? You surely do not believe that this vicious cycle is going to stop anytime soon?

I am hoping that my posts galvanize people to put pressure on Israel to stop killing civilians. Hamas is hopeless and they will never get the change to repeat the murderous action again as Israel is now on watch but Israel needs international support. But you are right this forum has 500 members at most. Even a hundred times that number will not change Israeli actions at present or future.

Edited October 20, 2023 by CITIZEN_2015

[Legato]

6 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Cease fire by both sides. Stop killing of civilians. Both sides are committing crimes against humanity. Hamas terrorists started it but Israel later proven to be as bad by its brutal reaction. 

CEASEFIRE NOW.

You seem not to understand the word "intent".

Hamas has the full intention of killing as many civilians as possible indiscriminately. Israel the full intention in killing as many Hamas terrorist's as possible.

Hamas intentionally uses women and children as human shields to protect their own sorry lives.

[blackbird]

15 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

So which one is it? The God or son of God? Me and my father were two different people not one lol.

Jesus is both.   He is God as part of the trinity,  Father, Son and Holy Spirit .  He is also the Son of God.  That is a basic Christian doctrine.  The Trinity is taken on faith.   The Trinity is one God, but made of three persons.  Muslims often accuse Christians of worshipping three Gods, but that is not the doctrine of the Trinity.  It is one God in three persons.

I have no interest in debating you over the war in Israel.  You obviously came from the Arab world and have the view Israel is in the wrong and has no right to defend itself. I don't believe in killing of women and children either.  But in wars often they do get killed.   Israel says they are not targeting them.  They are trying to eliminate Hamas, which hides among women and children.

[CITIZEN_2015]

27 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Jesus is both.   He is God as part of the trinity,  Father, Son and Holy Spirit .  He is also the Son of God.  That is a basic Christian doctrine.  The Trinity is taken on faith.   The Trinity is one God, but made of three persons.  Muslims often accuse Christians of worshipping three Gods, but that is not the doctrine of the Trinity.  It is one God in three persons.

I have no interest in debating you over the war in Israel.  You obviously came from the Arab world and have the view Israel is in the wrong and has no right to defend itself. I don't believe in killing of women and children either.  But in wars often they do get killed.   Israel says they are not targeting them.  They are trying to eliminate Hamas, which hides among women and children.

What on earth is this!!!!!. How can you be two physical or spiritual entities at the same time. He was a man on earth likely with superior knowledge or abilities, nevertheless a man who used to eat, walk and talk like others.

See you are so wrong in your assessment. How can anything else you say will be taken with credibility.

I do not come from Arab world. Damn all of them as far as I am concerned. They have done so much evil to the world. They are brutal, woman-haters, violent, rough, ugly minded....... Read the history, but I am very much against killing of civilians regardless of race or nationality so this is where I differ with you. You only care about Israeli civilians killed. As much as I dislike Arabs, I do not wish death on them or anyone, whereas it is your religion which bans hate and killing and revenge not mine.

Edited October 20, 2023 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

19 minutes ago, Legato said:

You seem not to understand the word "intent".

Hamas has the full intention of killing as many civilians as possible indiscriminately. Israel the full intention in killing as many Hamas terrorist's as possible.

Hamas intentionally uses women and children as human shields to protect their own sorry lives.

Regardless of intent, statistics say Israelis killed a lot more civilians SO FAR already.

I supported Israel and called for their victory and asked for elimination of Hamas murderers on the first few hours as I was emotional and under the influence and now I feel guilty. I feel I am partly responsible for all these civilian deaths caused after that day. So as why I am trying to stop it.

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 10/9/2023 at 11:43 PM, blackbird said:

No, they have no historic claim to any part of Germany.  But they do have a historic claim to the land of Israel.  Big difference.  

 

You conveniently ignore this quote from Wikipedia.

What are historic claims at this point? Do I have an historic claim to an acre of Ethiopia, given that all non-African humans hailed from that neck of the woods originally? 

Edited October 20, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

5 hours ago, Army Guy said:

This is an example of how easy it is today to destroy a mans career, his ability to stay at his own home, all becasue of his opinion, this clearly violates the meaning of what freedom of speech is all about. Don't get me wrong i do not agree with his opinions, however i do agree with his freedom to express them regardless of what i think. 

I find that what happened to this doctor is an example of todays cancel culture ..., and if we should cancel anything it would be this culture were when we don't like what someone is saying we destroy it regardless of consequences...maybe that is what we need more robust means to defend against and punish those that use this cancel culture...

 

 Ontario doctor suspended, his address published after pro-Palestinian social media posts (msn.com)

 

If that suspension really is just about his views on a non-medical matter, then no doctor should post their views on social media again under their own name because somebody is always offended. In fairness, there may have been previous ‘issues’ not related to politics. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[Legato]

47 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Regardless of intent, statistics say Israelis killed a lot more civilians SO FAR already.

I supported Israel and called for their victory and asked for elimination of Hamas murderers on the first few hours as I was emotional and under the influence and now I feel guilty. I feel I am partly responsible for all these civilian deaths caused after that day. So as why I am trying to stop it.

You cannot disregard intent. this is the crux of the conflict

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

Same story but different calendar date

I'll remember that next time I go fill 'er up with gas.  ?‍♂️

[taxme]

On 10/18/2023 at 7:34 PM, Army Guy said:

Here's the thing Skippy, you don't have to believe in anything i say or do...your a grown up go on social media and type in Hamas attacks, and see for yourself what comes up....but hey if you want to support terrorist thats a freedom you have here in Canada... You don't need me holding your hand and doing research for you i think you got some skills, might not have good judgement but maybe some skills...

It's not been on TV because you have not been watching it, might want to try a Muslim news agency like AL Jazeera you can see them dragging a half naked dead Israelis girl down the street as if she was a trophy...

Are you sure that the body being dragged down the street is an Israeli? Just asking. Thanks for recognizing that I have the right to my opinion. If i am not on the scene of the crime, then i can only go by what others on the scene have to say. You cannot even prove that the girl being dragged around is an Israeli, now can you? 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

whereas it is your religion which bans hate and killing and revenge not mine.

The belief in the Trinity is a central doctrine held by almost all church denominations in the world.  That means hundreds of million of people believe in the trinity.  It is considered as a mystery and not explainable in human terms.  That is what the Bible teaches. 

"The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who are God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus’ baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are other examples of passages that present three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also the other instances when Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply something our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus’ human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus’ works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.   "

What does the Bible teach about the Trinity? | GotQuestions.org

On the question of war:

"

Many people make the mistake of reading what the Bible says in Exodus 20:13, “You shall not kill,” and then seeking to apply this command to war. However, the Hebrew word literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice; murder.” God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12, 15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder. War is never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing. In a world filled with sinful people (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Sometimes the only way to keep sinful people from doing great harm to the innocent is by going to war.

In the Old Testament, God ordered the Israelites to “take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites” (Numbers 31:2). Deuteronomy 20:16-17 declares, “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them…as the LORD your God has commanded you.” Also, 1 Samuel 15:18 says, “Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.” Obviously God is not against all war. Jesus is always in perfect agreement with the Father (John 10:30), so we cannot argue that war was only God’s will in the Old Testament. God does not change (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17).

Jesus’ second coming will be exceedingly violent. Revelation 19:11-21 describes the ultimate war with Christ, the conquering commander who judges and makes war “with justice” (v. 11). It’s going to be bloody (v. 13) and gory. The birds will eat the flesh of all those who oppose Him (v. 17-18). He has no compassion upon His enemies, whom He will conquer completely and consign to a “fiery lake of burning sulfur” (v. 20).

It is an error to say that God never supports a war. Jesus is not a pacifist. In a world filled with evil people, sometimes war is necessary to prevent even greater evil. If Hitler had not been defeated by World War II, how many more millions would have been killed? If the American Civil War had not been fought, how much longer would African-Americans have had to suffer as slaves?

War is a terrible thing. Some wars are more “just” than others, but war is always the result of sin (Romans 3:10-18). At the same time, Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, “There is…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.” In a world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Romans 13:1-4; 1 Peter 2:17). The most important thing we can be doing in a time of war is to be praying for godly wisdom for our leaders, praying for the safety of our military, praying for quick resolution to conflicts, and praying for a minimum of casualties among civilians on both sides (Philippians 4:6-7)."

What does the Bible say about war? | GotQuestions.org

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by blackbird

[taxme]

On 10/19/2023 at 6:09 AM, blackbird said:

Who started this current conflict?  Who attacked and butchered hundreds of Israeli music festival goers and killed them on October 7th?  Who started firing thousands of rockets into Israel on October 7th?

Answer:   Hamas

Who took about 200 innocent Israeli hostages?

Answer:  Hamas

Who has a right to defend itself from such attacks?

Answer:  The one who was first attacked, Israel

quote

Dear students,

I cannot believe it. How can we wake up every morning since Oct. 7 knowing that young kids are being imprisoned in dungeons simply because they are Jewish and not speak out? How can we accept a world in which young women are sexually enslaved, while others are being tortured, because they were visiting Israel? Why would you respect a campus culture that excuses such abominations?

You’ve seen the horrifying images and the despicable videos. You’ve heard the cries of people who were swarmed, beaten, humiliated, raped, burned and slaughtered by Hamas. This bloodbath gave Israelis your age no choice: they must now stand and fight for their homeland, or they’ll be the next to die.

You, however, have a choice: you can fight this outrage and make your resistance a generational game-changer, or you can dodge responsibility and continue life as usual — at least until this evil catches up with you eventually.

Hamas’ orgy of violence was so monstrous that no fair-minded human could justify it. Beheading babies, kidnapping people confined to wheelchairs and slaughtering whole families is pure evil. Our civilization deems such acts repugnant — and if you have been a long-time critic of Israel, it’s even more important to reinforce that value.

That some people, some of your fellow students,  justified these acts, blaming the victims for their suffering, is inexcusable. This isn’t about “occupation,” “colonialism,” “imperialism” or “racism.”

While we must always tolerate differences, we must also draw some red lines. I will not fraternize with Nazis or racists or their cheerleaders. Similarly, I would never hire, work with, work for, learn from or befriend someone who delighted in these crimes or finds Israel “entirely responsible for all unfolding violence.”

No political stance justifies torturing the most vulnerable. Yet some have adopted images of paragliders — which were used by terrorists to raid the Supernova music festival, where they slayed 260 people — as inspiring symbols.

For me, freezing out such callous fanatics is easy. I’ve long recognized their Jew-hatred and utter refusal to process new facts. For some of you, I understand it’s harder to distance yourselves because you share common cause with them on other issues, or have even spent years justifying Hamas as pragmatic and Palestinians as oppressed — and thus never guilty of any crimes. But what does it say about us if events, especially such horrific ones, don’t cause us to rethink our assumptions?

I had no expectations of these Hamas barbarians or their apologists, so their depravity repels me but doesn’t surprise. I was surprised, however, by many of the snivelling responses to these amoral bullies. I was embarrassed by reports of students turning to administrators because pro-Palestinian demonstrations frightened them. Warnings not to go to class during last week’s “Day of Jihad” also made me squirm.

Israelis your age are running toward gunfire. On Oct. 7, Canadians raised just like you were equally heroic. One Canadian who was killed, Alexandre Look, 33, of Montreal, shielded other concert-goers from bullets with his body, while another, Ben Mizrachi , 22, tended to wounded revellers instead of fleeing — and was slaughtered as a result. Yet in North America, students run away from some loudmouths?

It’s time to grow a spine. If you feel “uncomfortable,” don’t whine to grownups, but act. Invite your friends to accompany you. If they say it has nothing to with them, then you know they don’t get it. Invite beefy friends from the football and lacrosse team along, too — not to confront (we’re not the violent ones), but simply to deter.

Invite your professors to join, especially gender studies profs. If they refuse, ask them to at least comment on Hamas’ rape culture and the delight so many Palestinians took in degrading so many Israeli women.

Two years ago, 120 gender studies departments throughout North America denounced Israel’s acts of self-defence against Hamas. So far, I haven’t seen a single academic department denounce Hamas’ anti-woman, anti-human bloodbath.     unquote

Gil Troy: Students, it's time to find your courage and confront Hamas apologists on campus (msn.com)

 

Israel has been bombing the shit out of Palestine for decades now. I do not believe that the Palestinian people are all to blame here. This is the first time in years that Hamas has really made the move on Israel that it did. The Palestinian people appear to have had enough and are ready to fight win or lose. Do not try and make it appear as though Israel is the darling here. Israel can be just as bad and guilty here has Hamas is supposed to be. 

And stop talking like you are a grownup person yourself here, while others here who do not agree with you are acting and talking like a child. So, STFU with your insults. I am just giving my opinion which i have a right to do so. Just because i am not all pro-Israel, does not mean that I am all in for Hamas. Grow up yourself, little boy. I do not have to kiss Israel's butt like you seem to want to do all the time. ?

[taxme]

On 10/19/2023 at 7:24 AM, I am Groot said:

You want to see live video of women being gang raped and having their throats cut? 

TV doesn't show deaths, especially murders in action. Anyone normal would know this. 

Well then, how do we really know that all those atrocities were being done by Hamas? The MSM says these atrocities were done, but then, why should i believe any media that in most cases have been shown to be liars. 

I do not support anyone who commits atrocities like you mentioned above. But for Hamas to be doing those terrible things, will not be so great for their PR. Just saying. 

[taxme]

On 10/19/2023 at 7:27 AM, I am Groot said:

Maybe if outfits like the Aryan Nations weren't a bunch of drooling, mouth-breathing sister lovers more white people would join up. But since most white people are sane and have a higher level of intelligence, and at least some education, we don't see much point in supporting, much less joining organizations run by the violent, ignorant dregs of society.

The situation between Israel and Hamas is a war between the civilized and the barbarians. I put the Aryan nation types in the latter category.

You have been watching the movie Deliverence way too many times. There are just as many drooling, mouth breathing sister loving white people around who do the same thing or worse than what those white patriotic nationalist people may have done. Did you think before you speak when said those words? NO. 

There have been many white people that have had a good education and have shown signs of some intelligence, but many have been shown to be nothing more than a bunch of dummies, especially, the leftist liberal ones. The dregs in society are people like you that keep mocking all white people who dare to say that they are proud of their white race and accomplishments in society. Well, i guess that makes me a racist then. ? 

 

 

 

[taxme]

On 10/19/2023 at 8:25 AM, suds said:

Satellite imagery can give a definitive view of the bomb crater and the extent of damage  done and it doesn't match up with any ordnance in use by the IDF.  It might not be absolute proof but lacking the ability to do any kind of independent search for bomb fragments it's as good as it gets.

An independent search will never happen. No one wants to be blamed for who really bombed the church. The bombing incident will be put in the no proof file and left there and soon to be forgotten like just about everything else. ?

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

What are historic claims at this point? Do I have an historic claim to an acre of Ethiopia, given that all non-African humans hailed from that neck of the woods originally? 

quote

This article is adapted from a Hebrew-language version of the same article, which ran earlier this year at the Israeli publication ICE.

Anti-Israel lies have taken such a strong hold in Western college campuses and throughout the media that basic historical truths about the Jewish people's undeniable right to the Land of Israel have been tossed aside and replaced with falsehoods that fuel conflict and ignorance.

These truths, drawn from ancient and modern history, archaeology, and even international and U.S. law, do not simply disprove the Palestinian propaganda depiction of Jewish usurpers who swooped in a century ago to steal Arab land. These truths demonstrate that the Jewish people have a long-standing and exclusive right to the Land of Israel.

Countless archaeological artifacts have been discovered confirming the Bible's descriptions of the ancient Kingdoms of Judea and Israel.

The "Siloam Inscription" is one of the most important of those archaeological discoveries. These are ancient Hebrew engravings on the wall of the Siloam tunnel, which transported water and was built during the reign of Hezekiah, the king of Judea, almost 2,800 years ago.

The Hebrew inscription describes the tunnel's construction, confirming the story of the mining of the Siloam tunnel as described in the Bible. It was unearthed in the ancient City of David in eastern Jerusalem.

The Siloam Inscription. This is a passage of inscribed text found in the Siloam tunnel which brings water from the Gihon Spring to the Pool of Siloam, located in the City of David in East Jerusalem neighborhood of Shiloah or Silwan. The inscription records the construction of the tunnel, which has been dated to the 8th century B.C.E. on the basis of the writing style.CULTURE CLUB/GETTY IMAGES

In the 1st century B.C.E., the Kingdom of Judea was conquered by the Roman Empire. There is no historical dispute that in both the early Roman period and the Greek period, most of the Jewish people lived in the Land of Israel.

After more than a century of Roman rule, the Jews rebelled against the Romans in the Great Revolt of 66 C.E. The Jewish revolt was a resounding failure, resulting in the destruction of the Second Temple. Still, even after the crushing military defeat, many Jews remained in the Land of Israel.

To celebrate their triumph over the Jews, the Romans erected the Arch of Titus, which depicts the scene of the Roman victory procession in Rome after the suppression of the Jewish revolt. This huge marble gate, which dates to the 1st century C.E., shows Roman soldiers hauling off holy vessels from the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, including the Menorah (which is today the official symbol of the State of Israel).

The author at the Arch of Titus in Rome, ItalyCOURTESY OF YAIR NETANYAHU

The Arch of Titus can still be found today in central Rome. Near the arch is the Colosseum, which was partially erected thanks to the money and treasure the Romans plundered from the Second Temple in Jerusalem.

Some Roman coins have also been discovered from this period bearing the inscription "Judaea conquered." The "Judaea Capta" coins were a special edition of Roman currency issued by the Roman Emperor Vespasian to celebrate the quelling of the Jewish rebellion by his son Titus.

One of the two ancient bronze coins, which according to Israel Antiquities Authority archaeologists were struck by the Roman procurator of Judea, Valerius Gratus, in the year 17/18 CE and recently were revealed in excavations beneath the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City are exposed to the media' on November 23, 2011 in Israel.LIOR MIZRAHI/GETTY IMAGES

The last Jewish revolt against the Romans, the Bar Kokhba revolt, broke out in 132 C.E. in response to harsher anti-Jewish persecution by the Roman Empire.

Following the suppression of the revolt, Emperor Hadrian decided to punish the Jews by changing the name of the province from "Judea" to "Palestine."

For the Romans, the name "Palestine" had nothing to do with modern-day Palestinians, who of course did not even remotely exist at the time. The Romans knew the coastal region of the Land of Israel as "Palestine," which was named after the ancient Philistine people who once inhabited the coastal territory of the Land of Israel.

The Philistines were part of the "sea people" who were said to have come from the island of Crete and invaded the eastern Mediterranean 3,200 years ago. The Philistines disappeared from the history books when the Assyrians conquered and exiled them some 700 years before the Roman period.

A 2019 DNA study of skeletons exhumed from Philistine tombs in the coastal Israeli cities of Ashdod and Ashkelon found that the Philistines come from a "southern European gene pool." In other words, the ancient Philistines have no genetic relation whatsoever to the modern Palestinian-Arabs.

The decision of Emperor Hadrian to change the name of the land to Palestine led to the use of that replacement name in the Roman Empire—and from there, to the various languages of the peoples of Europe.

After the Bar Kokhba revolt suppression, a large Jewish settlement remained in the Land of Israel for the next 600 years, throughout the first centuries of the Christian Byzantine period.

The Holy Land was largely emptied of Jews only after the Arab conquest in the 7th century C.E. The Arabs dispossessed the Jews of their farmland, leaving most of them with no choice but to leave. Despite this, the Jews maintained a continual presence in the four cities of Jerusalem, Hebron, Tiberias, and Safed.

Throughout the Ottoman period in the Land of Israel, from 1517 to 1917 C.E., the land was an insignificant part of the Ottoman Empire. It was not even an Ottoman province in its own right, but only a part of the province of Syria. All the historical records of Europeans and Americans who visited the Holy Land during the Ottoman Empire period depicted an empty and abandoned land.

In the mid-19th century, for example, Mark Twain visited the Land of Israel. Twain described it as a "hopeless, dreary, heartbroken land."

The land began to develop again only with the start of the Jewish settlements after the establishment of the Zionist movement, initiating waves of Jewish immigration to the Holy Land.

Significant development came only after the conquest of the land by the British Empire in 1917. This period is when many Arabs from neighboring countries made their way into the Land of Israel as migrant workers. Interestingly, the most popular surnames in the Palestinian Authority and Gaza Strip today include "Hijazi" (a region in Saudi Arabia), "Al-Masri" (which means Egyptian in Arabic), and "Halabi" (which is the city of Aleppo in Syria in Arabic). Other examples abound.

Before the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, the only people who called themselves "Palestinians" were the Jews. Many Zionist and Jewish organizations in Israel even incorporated the name Palestine into their names, such as the Zionist Jewish newspaper Palestine Post, which is now known as The Jerusalem Post.

After the end of World War I, the victorious powers gathered in the city of San Remo, Italy. There, it was decided that the new territories that France and Britain occupied from the Ottoman Empire in the Middle East would be managed as temporary mandates. Turkey officially ceded to Britain all its territory in the Middle East, including Palestine.

A mandate to rule the Land of Israel—the British Mandate for Palestine, from the ancient Roman name—was given to the British (among other areas) by the League of Nations, the organization that preceded the UN. A mandate was given for a limited time, with the aim of preparing the local people for eventual independence and self-rule. With the Mandate for Palestine, Britain officially reiterated all its commitments from the 1917 Balfour Declaration to a national home for the Jewish people in the Land of Israel.

The Mandate for Palestine's founding document explicitly stated that a national home for the Jewish people would be established in its territory. It did not expressly mention a national home for any other people.

The Mandate documented the deep historical connection between the Jewish people and the Land of Israel, from biblical times to the present day. The territory designated for the British Mandate of Palestine included Transjordan (today, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan), Israel, Gaza, and Judea and Samaria (i.e., the West Bank).

The charter of the British Mandate for Palestine has been ratified by the British Parliament, the U.S. Congress, and the League of Nations. When the UN was established, it ratified all the Mandates of the League of Nations, including the British Mandate for Palestine. The Mandate, therefore, is a binding international treaty which has become part of international law, British law, and American law.

The international legal status of the Land of Israel has not changed since the British Mandate, except for Israel's formal renunciation of Transjordan as part of the 1994 peace treaty between Israel and Jordan.

After the declaration of Israeli independence in 1948, the Arab armies invaded with the aim of eliminating every Jew there. They failed in their mission, but the Jordanian army managed to conquer Judea and Samaria and eastern Jerusalem (naming it the "West Bank"), and the Egyptian army seized the Gaza Strip.

The armistice line with the West Bank was, and still is, called the "Green Line." Crucially, this line constituted only a temporary ceasefire line, and attained no formal legal or political validity. Israel appealed to Jordan and Egypt after the 1948 invasion to designate the Green Line as an international border, but the Arab nations did not agree because they did not recognize Israel as a legitimate state at all.

Jews were forced to flee from their communities that fell on the "Arab side" of the Green Line. Immediately after the war, the Jordanian army blew up all the synagogues in the Old City of Jerusalem and chopped up Jewish gravestones to pave roads.

In the 1967 Six-Day War, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan tried again to destroy Israel. The State of Israel won the war and took the Golan Heights, Judea and Samaria (West Bank), the Sinai Peninsula, and the Gaza strip. All the territory occupied in the war (except for the Sinai) belongs to the Jewish people according to international law, in accordance with the Treaty of San Remo and the British Mandate for Palestine. Israel returned the whole of Sinai to Egypt in the peace treaty of 1979, and unilaterally pulled out of Gaza in 2005.

Unfortunately, these facts have been replaced with propagandistic Palestinian lies, which have permeated Western media and academia alike. That narrative must be countered, and the best way to do so is with the cold, hard facts.

Yair Netanyahu is an Israeli radio host and columnist with a M.A. in government. He is the son of former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.   unquote

Why the Jewish People Are the Rightful Owners of the Land of Israel | Opinion (newsweek.com)

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

Well then, how do we really know that all those atrocities were being done by Hamas? The MSM says these atrocities were done, but then, why should i believe any media that in most cases have been shown to be liars. 

I do not support anyone who commits atrocities like you mentioned above. But for Hamas to be doing those terrible things, will not be so great for their PR. Just saying. 

You are as dumb as a bag of rocks.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I am hoping that my posts galvanize people to put pressure on Israel to stop killing civilians.

People are too smart for that.  Hamas and it's supporters need to be put down permanently or this just happens again.  The people of gaza launched a war on the people of isreal, and in war there usually is a winner and a clear loser. 

The 'killing' can stop tomorrow -  gaza just has to surrender.  IF they don't that's their choice - not the isrealis.  You can't blame the isrealis for defending themselves.

And every person here knows you're a hamas supporter -  it's always " i oppose the killings in isreal BUT....   followed by some excuse why it's justified, why it's not the fault of gaza that gaza did that, that isreal is even WORSE becuase they 'dared defend themselves". 

Ppffft.  Gaza picked the fight, isreal should finish it, and every death is on the hands of the people who started the war which is absolutely the people of gaza.  

[taxme]

3 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

You are as dumb as a bag of rocks.

Awe, you are just mad at me because i will not kiss Israel's ass. To frikkin bad for you. Chuckle- chuckle. 

Btw, at least rocks can be useful for something. But for you and Israel, I see you both as being pretty much good for nothing. Just my opinion of course. Now STFU. ?

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

Are you sure that the body being dragged down the street is an Israeli? Just asking. Thanks for recognizing that I have the right to my opinion. If i am not on the scene of the crime, then i can only go by what others on the scene have to say. You cannot even prove that the girl being dragged around is an Israeli, now can you? 

Do you not think she was identified by relatives and investigators, she was filmed by Hamas media sources,  and a name put to her face, she was reported taken hostage by Hamas, later she is spotted in the hands of Hamas, dragging her by one leg , most of her cloths ripped away.... i mean come on man this is 2023.

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

quote

This article is adapted from a Hebrew-language version of the same article, which ran earlier this year at the Israeli publication ICE.

Anti-Israel lies have taken such a strong hold in Western college campuses and throughout the media that basic historical truths about the Jewish people's undeniable right to the Land of Israel have been tossed aside and replaced with falsehoods that fuel conflict and ignorance.

These truths, drawn from ancient and modern history, archaeology, and even international and U.S. law, do not simply disprove the Palestinian propaganda depiction of Jewish usurpers who swooped in a century ago to steal Arab land. These truths demonstrate that the Jewish people have a long-standing and exclusive right to the Land of Israel.

Countless archaeological artifacts have been discovered confirming the Bible's descriptions of the ancient Kingdoms of Judea and Israel.

The "Siloam Inscription" is one of the most important of those archaeological discoveries. These are ancient Hebrew engravings on the wall of the Siloam tunnel, which transported water and was built during the reign of Hezekiah, the king of Judea, almost 2,800 years ago.

The Hebrew inscription describes the tunnel's construction, confirming the story of the mining of the Siloam tunnel as described in the Bible. It was unearthed in the ancient City of David in eastern Jerusalem.

The Siloam Inscription. This is a passage of inscribed text found in the Siloam tunnel which brings water from the Gihon Spring to the Pool of Siloam, located in the City of David in East Jerusalem neighborhood of Shiloah or Silwan. The inscription records the construction of the tunnel, which has been dated to the 8th century B.C.E. on the basis of the writing style.CULTURE CLUB/GETTY IMAGES

In the 1st century B.C.E., the Kingdom of Judea was conquered by the Roman Empire. There is no historical dispute that in both the early Roman period and the Greek period, most of the Jewish people lived in the Land of Israel.

After more than a century of Roman rule, the Jews rebelled against the Romans in the Great Revolt of 66 C.E. The Jewish revolt was a resounding failure, resulting in the destruction of the Second Temple. Still, even after the crushing military defeat, many Jews remained in the Land of Israel.

To celebrate their triumph over the Jews, the Romans erected the Arch of Titus, which depicts the scene of the Roman victory procession in Rome after the suppression of the Jewish revolt. This huge marble gate, which dates to the 1st century C.E., shows Roman soldiers hauling off holy vessels from the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, including the Menorah (which is today the official symbol of the State of Israel).

The author at the Arch of Titus in Rome, ItalyCOURTESY OF YAIR NETANYAHU

The Arch of Titus can still be found today in central Rome. Near the arch is the Colosseum, which was partially erected thanks to the money and treasure the Romans plundered from the Second Temple in Jerusalem.

Some Roman coins have also been discovered from this period bearing the inscription "Judaea conquered." The "Judaea Capta" coins were a special edition of Roman currency issued by the Roman Emperor Vespasian to celebrate the quelling of the Jewish rebellion by his son Titus.

One of the two ancient bronze coins, which according to Israel Antiquities Authority archaeologists were struck by the Roman procurator of Judea, Valerius Gratus, in the year 17/18 CE and recently were revealed in excavations beneath the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City are exposed to the media' on November 23, 2011 in Israel.LIOR MIZRAHI/GETTY IMAGES

The last Jewish revolt against the Romans, the Bar Kokhba revolt, broke out in 132 C.E. in response to harsher anti-Jewish persecution by the Roman Empire.

Following the suppression of the revolt, Emperor Hadrian decided to punish the Jews by changing the name of the province from "Judea" to "Palestine."

For the Romans, the name "Palestine" had nothing to do with modern-day Palestinians, who of course did not even remotely exist at the time. The Romans knew the coastal region of the Land of Israel as "Palestine," which was named after the ancient Philistine people who once inhabited the coastal territory of the Land of Israel.

The Philistines were part of the "sea people" who were said to have come from the island of Crete and invaded the eastern Mediterranean 3,200 years ago. The Philistines disappeared from the history books when the Assyrians conquered and exiled them some 700 years before the Roman period.

A 2019 DNA study of skeletons exhumed from Philistine tombs in the coastal Israeli cities of Ashdod and Ashkelon found that the Philistines come from a "southern European gene pool." In other words, the ancient Philistines have no genetic relation whatsoever to the modern Palestinian-Arabs.

The decision of Emperor Hadrian to change the name of the land to Palestine led to the use of that replacement name in the Roman Empire—and from there, to the various languages of the peoples of Europe.

After the Bar Kokhba revolt suppression, a large Jewish settlement remained in the Land of Israel for the next 600 years, throughout the first centuries of the Christian Byzantine period.

The Holy Land was largely emptied of Jews only after the Arab conquest in the 7th century C.E. The Arabs dispossessed the Jews of their farmland, leaving most of them with no choice but to leave. Despite this, the Jews maintained a continual presence in the four cities of Jerusalem, Hebron, Tiberias, and Safed.

Throughout the Ottoman period in the Land of Israel, from 1517 to 1917 C.E., the land was an insignificant part of the Ottoman Empire. It was not even an Ottoman province in its own right, but only a part of the province of Syria. All the historical records of Europeans and Americans who visited the Holy Land during the Ottoman Empire period depicted an empty and abandoned land.

In the mid-19th century, for example, Mark Twain visited the Land of Israel. Twain described it as a "hopeless, dreary, heartbroken land."

The land began to develop again only with the start of the Jewish settlements after the establishment of the Zionist movement, initiating waves of Jewish immigration to the Holy Land.

Significant development came only after the conquest of the land by the British Empire in 1917. This period is when many Arabs from neighboring countries made their way into the Land of Israel as migrant workers. Interestingly, the most popular surnames in the Palestinian Authority and Gaza Strip today include "Hijazi" (a region in Saudi Arabia), "Al-Masri" (which means Egyptian in Arabic), and "Halabi" (which is the city of Aleppo in Syria in Arabic). Other examples abound.

Before the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, the only people who called themselves "Palestinians" were the Jews. Many Zionist and Jewish organizations in Israel even incorporated the name Palestine into their names, such as the Zionist Jewish newspaper Palestine Post, which is now known as The Jerusalem Post.

After the end of World War I, the victorious powers gathered in the city of San Remo, Italy. There, it was decided that the new territories that France and Britain occupied from the Ottoman Empire in the Middle East would be managed as temporary mandates. Turkey officially ceded to Britain all its territory in the Middle East, including Palestine.

A mandate to rule the Land of Israel—the British Mandate for Palestine, from the ancient Roman name—was given to the British (among other areas) by the League of Nations, the organization that preceded the UN. A mandate was given for a limited time, with the aim of preparing the local people for eventual independence and self-rule. With the Mandate for Palestine, Britain officially reiterated all its commitments from the 1917 Balfour Declaration to a national home for the Jewish people in the Land of Israel.

The Mandate for Palestine's founding document explicitly stated that a national home for the Jewish people would be established in its territory. It did not expressly mention a national home for any other people.

The Mandate documented the deep historical connection between the Jewish people and the Land of Israel, from biblical times to the present day. The territory designated for the British Mandate of Palestine included Transjordan (today, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan), Israel, Gaza, and Judea and Samaria (i.e., the West Bank).

The charter of the British Mandate for Palestine has been ratified by the British Parliament, the U.S. Congress, and the League of Nations. When the UN was established, it ratified all the Mandates of the League of Nations, including the British Mandate for Palestine. The Mandate, therefore, is a binding international treaty which has become part of international law, British law, and American law.

The international legal status of the Land of Israel has not changed since the British Mandate, except for Israel's formal renunciation of Transjordan as part of the 1994 peace treaty between Israel and Jordan.

After the declaration of Israeli independence in 1948, the Arab armies invaded with the aim of eliminating every Jew there. They failed in their mission, but the Jordanian army managed to conquer Judea and Samaria and eastern Jerusalem (naming it the "West Bank"), and the Egyptian army seized the Gaza Strip.

The armistice line with the West Bank was, and still is, called the "Green Line." Crucially, this line constituted only a temporary ceasefire line, and attained no formal legal or political validity. Israel appealed to Jordan and Egypt after the 1948 invasion to designate the Green Line as an international border, but the Arab nations did not agree because they did not recognize Israel as a legitimate state at all.

Jews were forced to flee from their communities that fell on the "Arab side" of the Green Line. Immediately after the war, the Jordanian army blew up all the synagogues in the Old City of Jerusalem and chopped up Jewish gravestones to pave roads.

In the 1967 Six-Day War, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan tried again to destroy Israel. The State of Israel won the war and took the Golan Heights, Judea and Samaria (West Bank), the Sinai Peninsula, and the Gaza strip. All the territory occupied in the war (except for the Sinai) belongs to the Jewish people according to international law, in accordance with the Treaty of San Remo and the British Mandate for Palestine. Israel returned the whole of Sinai to Egypt in the peace treaty of 1979, and unilaterally pulled out of Gaza in 2005.

Unfortunately, these facts have been replaced with propagandistic Palestinian lies, which have permeated Western media and academia alike. That narrative must be countered, and the best way to do so is with the cold, hard facts.

Yair Netanyahu is an Israeli radio host and columnist with a M.A. in government. He is the son of former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.   unquote

Why the Jewish People Are the Rightful Owners of the Land of Israel | Opinion (newsweek.com)

Me no read that much.

Humans have been all over the place. My ancestors trekked across Africa, Asia and Europe. Can I claim anything along the way? The DNA record suggests many ancestors of modern Jews were German, French, Arab etc. 

British Palestine is an example of what happens when a tsunami of foreigners arrives in your land; as any First Nations person can tell you, they tend to take over. This Balfour Declaration was like Pope Adrian allegedly handing over Ireland to England; it wasn’t his to give. For internal British political reasons, the governing authority of Palestine betrayed its duty of care to the people already there.

Edited October 20, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Regardless of intent, statistics say Israelis killed a lot more civilians SO FAR already.

I supported Israel and called for their victory and asked for elimination of Hamas murderers on the first few hours as I was emotional and under the influence and now I feel guilty. I feel I am partly responsible for all these civilian deaths caused after that day. So as why I am trying to stop it.

Is that how we solve conflicts now your only allowed to kill as many as the other side has...Palestinian have freely elected a terrorist organization to govern them, think about that for a minute...they put in power an organization who's sole goal is to eliminate all the Jews in the world... do normal people do that, did they think life was going to get better some how . All the Mamas government has done is fuel this hatred ...The people of Palestine have some reasonability in all this.. just as the other Muslim countries that continue to support these terrorist with funding and providing arms...Hamas uses their education system to spread this hate....it is every where, form children to grown ups... the people that just want peace are few , those that support these terrorist are the majority...

This conflict is going to get bigger, in the next couple days, Israel's army will enter into GAZA, which will bring in Hezbollah, and engulf Lebanon... Turkey has vowed to enter the conflict if Israel military forces enter GAZA, and well as IRAN, which of course will drag the US into it, along with the UK and possible other NATO countries...Including perhaps our own...this will get out of control very fast...At that point you feeling guilty is not going to matter...this will make the refugee crises of Syria look like a picnic...imigine what millions of Palestinians rushing into Europe is going to look like...