Legalization and decriminalizatiopn failed: Proposed B.C. law would make drug use illegal in almost all public spaces

[CdnFox]

https://nationalpost.com/news/local-news/proposed-b-c-law-would-make-drug-use-illegal-in-almost-all-public-spaces/wcm/85de63d5-ae74-4285-9e05-f5336f82125f

Critics say the government is walking back its drug decriminalization policy less than one year into the experiment

Since that policy came into effect, both Eby and Public Safety Minister Mike Farnworth said they’ve heard frustrations from mayors, business owners and citizens about a rise in public drug use, especially in places frequented by children.

Lapointe has been clear that decriminalization alone is unlikely to quell the wave of overdose deaths and said Thursday it’s unfortunate that the government didn’t give the policy more time to play out before changing course.

 

[CdnFox]

Aw gee - and the program was going so well:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/toxic-drug-deaths-july-2023-1.6950922

B.C. sets new record with 1,455 drug deaths in 1st 7 months of 2023

Safe supply doesn't work.

Since the program started, more kids have gotten hooked, more people have died than ever before and it embolden's people to use illegal drugs. 

 

[herbie]

Hate to point out that if you use drugs and where you use them are two different things.

The new legislation fills a different need, without mentioning we're talking about people who's brains are turned to shit and act like pigs even more than the averagel dunderhead. Shooting up and nodding out in front of schools and leaving needles in the playground were not part of either legalization or decriminalization.

But of course some can't discuss that issue on it's own, they have to sensationalize and try to indicate it is some sort of failure on the part of something else.....

[herbie]

As is your dumb assertion that drug overdoses have something to do with safe supply and supervised sites.

Just can't stop with the wrong-wing logic

[CdnFox]

34 minutes ago, herbie said:

Hate to point out that if you use drugs and where you use them are two different things.

Hate to point it out to you but it's all part of the same strategy, and it's failing.

Quote

The new legislation fills a different need, without mentioning we're talking about people who's brains are turned to shit and act like pigs even more than the averagel dunderhead. Shooting up and nodding out in front of schools and leaving needles in the playground were not part of either legalization or decriminalization.

Ahh - these are the same people you hope will make the right choice and give up illegal drugs right? Right?

 

Quote

But of course some can't discuss that issue on it's own, they have to sensationalize and try to indicate it is some sort of failure on the part of something else.....

And some prefer to cover up the failures so they can stick to virtue signalling instead of actually giving a crap about solving the problems.

By every single reasonable metric safe supply and safe injection is failing.  Deaths are up and have been climbing for years - the number of recoveries does not seem to be going up, drug use is spreading, "Safe" hard drugs are being sold to schoolchildren so that addicts can buy 'the good stuff' ....   And now we see that the druggies are taking the attitude that 'oh it's all legal now we can do whatever we want wherever we want."

It's a failed experiment.

[CdnFox]

36 minutes ago, herbie said:

As is your dumb assertion that drug overdoses have something to do with safe supply and supervised sites.

Just can't stop with the wrong-wing logic

What you mean is you know i'm right and can't offer any reasonable rebuttal.   So you resort to childish comments like 'wrong wing".  That's your entire reasoning right there.

OF COURSE overdoses have to do with safe supply and safe injection - THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO HELP WITH!!!!!  That was the entire reason for them! If they're failing that then the entire idea is a colossal failure!!!!

you couldn't have shot your credibility in the foot more than you did with that comment.

[eyeball]

Its failing because addicts can't get a safe supply of what they want, the 'good stuff' ie heroin. They don't want some version of a criminalized drug they want the real thing.

They need a safe supply of heroin that is free of the dangerous shit street dealers add.

They need to put Keith Richards in charge of supplying safer drugs. He's probably consumed pounds of heroin without killing himself.

[OftenWrong]

It makes sense to classify and control it like alcohol. That is, only legally obtainable at state-sanctioned outlets, and not consumable in public spaces.

If it works would reduce hazardous needle waste and maybe overdoses as well.

8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Its failing because addicts can't get a safe supply of what they want, the 'good stuff' ie heroin. They don't want some version of a criminalized drug they want the real thing

Today the real thing IS fentanyl. That is what the addicts really want.

The Liberal government's 'safer supply' is fuelling a new opioid crisis

 

"In this special report, columnist Adam Zivo details how drugs handed out for free are being sold on the black market to fund fentanyl addictions."

[Aristides]

 

Why shouldn't addicts be able to shoot up in places a person can't even smoke a cigarette.

[eyeball]

13 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Today the real thing IS fentanyl. That is what the addicts really want.

Then give them what they really want because whatever it is they're getting isn't it

Otherwise the only real way remedy for addiction will be to address the socio-economic issues that lead to addiction, like making it possible again for the majority of single income earners to support a family, buy a car, put their kids through college and save enough to retire on.

You really want to foot the bill for that or even worse increase taxes on the 1%?

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Its failing because addicts can't get a safe supply of what they want, the 'good stuff' ie heroin. They don't want some version of a criminalized drug they want the real thing.

There is no safe version of what they want.  They want the stuff that's dangerous.

Quote

They need a safe supply of heroin that is free of the dangerous shit street dealers add.

They want the stuff laced with fentynal.  No matter what you give them, they want the strongest stuff.  There is no safe supply of what they want. This is one of the lessons from this experiment.

So stop pretending that such a thing exists. It's a lie.

Quote

They need to put Keith Richards in charge of supplying safer drugs. He's probably consumed pounds of heroin without killing himself.

They aren't interested in cocaine.

This experiment failed because it's NOT POSSIBLE to SAFELY give them what they want. Period.  And instead they make bad decisions and die anyway.

The experiment needs to be shut down and we need to come at it from a different angle. Massively improve treatment options and availablility and make it a crime - get caught and it's your choice to go to jail or accept treatment and stick with it until you're clean.

[ExFlyer]

Decriminalizing something that is illegal (and there is a difference between decriminalization and being legal) is stupid. It only perpetuates addiction.

Safe injection is step 2 to stupidity....allowing and giving safe space to do illegal additive activity so that what can happen?? Oh yeah more illegal activity with no consequences.

Is anyone surprised there are more drug induced deaths??? If you are, you are as stupid as the governments.

[blackbird]

14 hours ago, eyeball said:

Otherwise the only real way remedy for addiction will be to address the socio-economic issues that lead to addiction, like making it possible again for the majority of single income earners to support a family, buy a car, put their kids through college and save enough to retire on.

Therein the difference in ideology between the conservatives and left/liberals.

Liberals and left believe government can solve all problems and create prosperity with taxation and government intervention in the economy and government social programs.

True free enterprise conservatives (not progressive fake conservatives) believe only private enterprise creates wealth and prosperity for society as a whole.

One thing is clear.  Government intervention in everything seems to only create more taxes, increasing size of bureaucracy, and less freedom for everyone.  The size of the federal government has increased by at least 25% since Trudeau took office in 2015.  That would mean a corresponding increase of the cost of government.  

 

[I am Groot]

15 hours ago, eyeball said:

Its failing because addicts can't get a safe supply of what they want, the 'good stuff' ie heroin. They don't want some version of a criminalized drug they want the real thing.

They need a safe supply of heroin that is free of the dangerous shit street dealers add.

They need to go to prison.

[I am Groot]

If passed, the legislation will allow police officers to ask a person using drugs in any of these places to cease the activity and leave the area for another appropriate area, such as an overdose prevention or supervised consumption site. If a person refuses this direction, the police officer may choose to proceed with enforcement measures, if appropriate.

What a joke! Catch a guy shooting up and you can politely ask him to do it somewhere else! Talk about draconian legislation! LOL. 

And if the addict tells the cop to get stuffed what exactly is the cop to do? Arrest is not really an option. And even if you did arrest them they'd be out on no-bail immediately. It's extremely unlikely the BC crown prosecutors' office would okay any charges, and even if they did the judges would just give the addict a pat on the head and send them right back out there to do it again.

[herbie]

Punish! Punish! Punish!
What's the point of law if the punishment is not sever enough!

As I said before you propose:
The less than a year old partially implemented program hasn't already solved everything 100% - we must go back what didn't work for 100 years!

As no one is dying from safe supply drugs or in safe sites, what kind of m0ron keeps insisting they are to blame for overdose deaths? You have the proof that the people who want to participate in them don't die and keep attempting to claim the unacceptable behaviours and death of those who don't or won't use them is some sort of proof they should end those programs.

You got TWO choices
Invent some drug that cures addiction with a single shot and force them to take it, or
get to the root of the problem WHY are they taking drugs they know could kill them and fix it. As poverty and social isolation are most of it, we're simply not willing to.,

[Legato]

The irony. "Safe" drugs. "Safe" sites. That's a whole new level of stupid.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

 

As I said before you propose:
The less than a year old partially implemented program hasn't already solved everything 100% - we must go back what didn't work for 100 years

 

It's made things worse. People are dying even faster and now high school kids are being hooked on the 'safe' drugs at record rates.

Left wing nutbars are the only people in the universe who claim that something failing and making things worse is proof we should do more of it.

 

Quote

As no one is dying from safe supply drugs or in safe sites, what kind of m0ron keeps insisting they are to blame for overdose deaths?

They're using the safe drugs to buy the dangerous ones.

This is Herbie's brain. This is Herbie's brain about drugs. Any questions?

[herbie]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

People are dying even faster and now high school kids are being hooked on the 'safe' drugs at record rates.

And as I pointed out THE TWO THINGS HAPPENING AROUND THE SAME TIME DOES NOT MAKE THEM CONNECTED.
As for the kids being hooked at a record rate - so say you: PROVE IT.

Like FFS you've turned into a frost-bit Reason10 tossing out allegations anyone with Grade 9 level of logic and TV cop show viewing can counter, claiming something is so simply because you say it is so over and over.

[CdnFox]

22 minutes ago, herbie said:

And as I pointed out THE TWO THINGS HAPPENING AROUND THE SAME TIME DOES NOT MAKE THEM CONNECTED.

It does if the sole purpose of one thing was to prevent the other thing.   Sorry.  If you put in a fire supression system specifically meant to stop fires, and the building burns down, you can in fact say the system was a failure.

Sorry - this is a failure.  It was supposed to reduce deaths and help people into the rehab and treatment system nnd instead deaths are growing at an increased rate and the drug problem is spreading. Time to trash it and move to a different model entirely.

[RedDog]

I’ve been on a police ride-a-long in Vancouver. The lower mainland is a drug toilet.

[Nationalist]

17 hours ago, herbie said:

Punish! Punish! Punish!
What's the point of law if the punishment is not sever enough!

As I said before you propose:
The less than a year old partially implemented program hasn't already solved everything 100% - we must go back what didn't work for 100 years!

As no one is dying from safe supply drugs or in safe sites, what kind of m0ron keeps insisting they are to blame for overdose deaths? You have the proof that the people who want to participate in them don't die and keep attempting to claim the unacceptable behaviours and death of those who don't or won't use them is some sort of proof they should end those programs.

You got TWO choices
Invent some drug that cures addiction with a single shot and force them to take it, or
get to the root of the problem WHY are they taking drugs they know could kill them and fix it. As poverty and social isolation are most of it, we're simply not willing to.,

Ok. Round them all up and put them in facilities.

[I am Groot]

17 hours ago, herbie said:

Punish! Punish! Punish!
What's the point of law if the punishment is not sever enough!

As I said before you propose:
The less than a year old partially implemented program hasn't already solved everything 100% - we must go back what didn't work for 100 years!

The program has made things worse, not better. Not just here but everywhere. This permissiveness toward addicts and their crimes has led to burgeoning tent cities of addicts in liberal-run cities across North America. And to the resulting increase in crime and decrease in social order and security.

So yes, punish. Punish the addicts. Force them into rehab. Really punish the drug dealers, especially those dealing with fentanyl. REALLY punish the smugglers. I'd inspect every envelope, every package, every ship coming from China with a hair-tooth comb. And if that means freighters backed up all the way across the Pacific waiting for inspection, well I'm fine with that. Importers will learn to buy their goods from someone else.

Edited October 9, 2023 by I am Groot

[ExFlyer]

10 hours ago, RedDog said:

I’ve been on a police ride-a-long in Vancouver. The lower mainland is a drug toilet.

I am from Vancouver. It has been that way for half a century.

[Army Guy]

On 10/8/2023 at 10:13 PM, herbie said:

And as I pointed out THE TWO THINGS HAPPENING AROUND THE SAME TIME DOES NOT MAKE THEM CONNECTED.
As for the kids being hooked at a record rate - so say you: PROVE IT.

Like FFS you've turned into a frost-bit Reason10 tossing out allegations anyone with Grade 9 level of logic and TV cop show viewing can counter, claiming something is so simply because you say it is so over and over.

It seems the facts are not backing up this new way of providing drugies with free drugs...it is not reducing deaths by any measure, nor is it stopping the fentanyl rage that is infesting our streets...