Muslims and Christians unite on the streets of Ottawa, trampling the Gender Ideology Flag

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

When the right of a child to confidentiality is at issue I'd suggest the line that differentiates them from being an adult  gets really blurry.

We're not talking about a crime after all.

There is no right to the child's confidentiality.  Point that out in the charter. The parents under the law have full responsibility for the actions of the child so no information should be kept from them.

Here's the thing. The whole premise is that somehow the child's safety will be compromised if the parents knew the truth about them. That these are dangerous people and dangerous parents.

Well - if that's the case then why are we letting the kid stay with them at all? If theres a serious threat of violence then the kids shouldn't be there.

AND - if they're concerned about violence when the kid tells them what's going on imagine what the threat would be like if the parents find out later that the kid lied to them telling others that they were afraid for their safety if their parents knew.   Do you think they'd be LESS angry?

 Teaching kids to lie to their parents is not the answer here. That is a simple fact. If there's a problem with the parents then the teachers or a councillor or the like should be available to meet on the kid's behalf and teh kid should be monitored to make sure nothing bad happens. Becoming a nation of liars isn't a great solution.

[Moonbox]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

That is literally my precise point.

No, you're misunderstanding the point.  Slavery cannot be a right.  It's the antithesis of "rights" by any reasonable definition, under any circumstances.  Abolishing slavery didn't take away anyone's rights.  It restored basic rights to the enslaved.  

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

The whole 'false equivalency' thing is just a cheap and low brow attempt to dismiss serious concerns.

You literally just compared the emancipation of the slaves to the trans rights debate.  How much more low-brow can you get?  ?‍♂️

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Especially when there IS no right to Pee Pee in the location of your choice.  And especially for trans - at least gays have the legitimate claim that they are a naturally occurring ethnicity that is perfectly healthy in and of itself as a biological group - transgender people are suffering from a mental illness.  We don't generally consider people with a mental illness to be an ethnicity .

If there's no right to pee pee and poo poo in the location of your choice, then what rights are supposedly being violated by the trannies?  

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, myata said:

By that logic, anything can be a "right"? Or only the special topics appointed by the Wisest Ever Central Committee of Social Engineering? Do I have a right to identify as a CEO, and sure do come out to affirm my rights to identity, but don't even,ever think of questioning it!

Sound like a plan?

Sorry @BeaverFever  but he's right and so were the pro-segregationists, wheter you like what they were protesting or not.

Your reply basically says "but if we have the same rules for everyone then people i disagree with will have a voice".   Yep. that's the problem with democracy - that's the whole "disagree with what you say but defend to the death your right to say it" thing.

 

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

No, you're misunderstanding the point. 

Seeing as it was my point that's pretty unlikely.

Quote

Slavery cannot be a right.  It's the antithesis of "rights" by any reasonable definition, under any circumstances.  Abolishing slavery didn't take away anyone's rights.  It restored basic rights to the enslaved. 

Nope. Property ownership is a right. Property has no rights. The slave had no more 'rights' than your cow or rooster had.

That was the law.

What the slaves said was 'your rights don't erase my human rights" and others agreed that human rights attached and they're not property.  That's the same here - "trans" rights don't erase other peoples' rights. And that's what they're attempting to do - claim their rights take precedent over anyone else's. As if their rights should nullify everyone else's.

Quote

You literally just compared the emancipation of the slaves to the trans rights debate.  How much more low-brow can you get?  ?‍♂️

again - stupid argument.  If two things are comparable then they can be compared. I can compare a regular apple to a golden apple even tho they're not the same value. Likewise i can compare the cost of a 50 dollar watch with a 50 dollar pen even tho they're not the same thing.

You're trying to make an argument based on emotion and it's dumb. Ohhhh THE HORROR!!! HE COMPARED SOMETHING TO ANOTHER THING!!!!! WAAAAAAHHHH. 

yeash. Grow up. Nobody is claiming one is better or worse, but the arguments are the same and can be compared. Put your big boy pants on.

Quote

If there's no right to pee pee and poo poo in the location of your choice, then what rights are supposedly being violated by the trannies?  

You are a little confused. The trannies are the ones who claim there's a right to pee pee and poo poo  so the question is what rights of THEIRS are being violated.  And ... good question.

[Moonbox]

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

 

Nope. Property ownership is a right. Property has no rights. The slave had no more 'rights' than your cow or rooster had.

That was the law.

Slavery as a "right" is a contradiction in and of itself.  That it was the law doesn't change that.  It was morally corrupt and utterly indefensible.  

If legal status is all that matters, then when the courts reinterpret things or new statutes/acts are implemented, how can you complain that your rights are being overridden?  Obviously there is a lot more to it than that.  

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

What the slaves said was 'your rights don't erase my human rights" and others agreed that human rights attached and they're not property.  That's the same here - "trans" rights don't erase other peoples' rights. And that's what they're attempting to do - claim their rights take precedent over anyone else's. As if their rights should nullify everyone else's.

That you think they're the same is funny.  Slavery is the denial of (effectively) all rights.  Is that what you figure is happening here?  

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

again - stupid argument.  If two things are comparable then they can be compared. 

Sure, but being able to compare something doesn't mean that you should.  A dumb comparison is a dumb comparison.  

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

When the right of a child to confidentiality is at issue I'd suggest the line that differentiates them from being an adult  gets really blurry.

We're not talking about a crime after all.

I understand you do not believe in the Bible or God, but that does not give you the right to teach your brand of morality to other people's kids.  Parents are the primary guardians of raising their children and teaching them morality, not schools or public officials.  Keep your sexual lessons away from our little ones.  People who believe in the perversions or support that kind of thing have no business trying to groom children. Stick with the three Rs.

Edited June 12, 2023 by blackbird

[Americana Antifa]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

I did answer the question. Your reading comprehension skills are as soft as ever.

Why don't you tell us.  Go ahead and give your opinion and we'll see if it's different.

I think any age is fine for kids to see gay couples in media.

Do you agree?

[Army Guy]

5 hours ago, herbie said:

And if they're in school they should already know. If they don't they should be taught.
Because you failed in your parental duty to teach them.

So the school has the power to decide what is best for your children, is that what your saying ?...is that an unwritten rule that by age 6 one must be fluent in all things that are sexual...Just a question, what got cut off the curriculum to add all these class time to gender studies...and is all of this really a life skill we need to become adults ? i mean i was thinking about classes in money , how to save it, invest it, financial planning for the future, just to mention one life skill we could all use...  

 

[herbie]

4 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

At what age is it ok for kids to see gay couples depicted in media the same way they see straight couples depicted in media?

21 according to these 19th century Puritans. Or more to their real desire, never.
They seem to think a 6 yr old is too young to know where babies come from.

A stork? Mom! Mote like a DORK, what do you think the rabbits, dogs, horses and chickens out there are doing, "wrestling"? You think I'm a child or something?

- my daughter at 7

Her gramma told her we'd put some of our wedding cake in the freezer and when we wanted to make her a brother or sister we'd eat some. She was 4 then and asked us why Gramma would tell her such BS, was she going senile?

[Americana Antifa]

4 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

So the school has the power to decide what is best for your children, is that what your saying ?

Schools already have that power. If a child is being abused by their parents, schools are legally required to intervene.

We also don't take a vote with everything schools teach children. Schools are going to teach that the earth is round, even if most of the parents in your district want them to teach flat earth theory.

[herbie]

7 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

So the school has the power to decide what is best for your children, is that what your saying ?.

No what I'm saying is schools have the responsibility to teach your kid what you won't. And to correct what you've taught them wrong.

Give up on this imaginary "parental rights" bullshit. You don't have any. You only have parental responsibilities.

[Americana Antifa]

2 minutes ago, herbie said:

21 according to these 19th century Puritans. Or more to their real desire, never.
They seem to think a 6 yr old is too young to know where babies come from.

A stork? Mom! Mote like a DORK, what do you think the rabbits, dogs, horses and chickens out there are doing, "wrestling"? You think I'm a child or something?

- my daughter at 7

Her gramma told her we'd put some of our wedding cake in the freezer and when we wanted to make her a brother or sister we'd eat some. She was 4 then and asked us why Gramma would tell her such BS, was she going senile?

Reminds me of how the creators of South Park said the show is about how kids really talk when their parents aren't around. And that was before social media. So yeah, kids have a long history of learning about where babies come from in the schoolyard.

I'm actually pretty sympathetic to parents who just feel uncomfortable with their kids learning sex ed. I disagree, but I get it. But when it comes to these parents who don't want kids learning that LGBT people exist, they're just concern trolling. We already have a ton of children's media with straight couples. Kids know that human sexuality exists. These parents really just don't want kids knowing that not everyone is cishet.

[Army Guy]

8 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Schools already have that power. If a child is being abused by their parents, schools are legally required to intervene.

We also don't take a vote with everything schools teach children. Schools are going to teach that the earth is round, even if most of the parents in your district want them to teach flat earth theory.

Actually anyone has that ability, it is not limited to the school, because it is a crime... Here in NB we having a huge crises with our conservative premier who states that the parents must be notified about their children's change in gender pronouns, or sexual preference... and it is the LGBTQ lobby group that is challenging it, with it endangers the Childs safety...and parents have no RIGHT to informed about anything in this topic... 

When did parents stop having rights to parent their children... 

As for parents having a say in what is taught... ya they do , they have the same rights as anyone to protest what is being taught it is going on all across the US and Canada at this time...and parents are changing the status quo...Thats why they have school board meetings etc...

[TreeBeard]

8 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

 

When did parents stop having rights to parent their children... 

if they’re going to beat, or mentally abuse, their kid for this, then they lose their rights to parent their child.  Because it’s unknown which parents will do this, it’s safer for the child if the school doesn’t rat them out.   Or do you think kids should be endangered for the sake of “parental rights”?

[Army Guy]

12 minutes ago, herbie said:

No what I'm saying is schools have the responsibility to teach your kid what you won't. And to correct what you've taught them wrong.

Give up on this imaginary "parental rights" bullshit. You don't have any. You only have parental responsibilities.

Not sure what the schools are like in your neighborhood, but here school boards have regular public meetings where you can address what you think should or should not be taught in school.  And i'm sure it happens in your area as well , and if the topic becomes a hot issue then yes what is being taught has changed.

It is not the schools responsibility or any groups really to decide what is good parenting or bad parenting unless it falls under abuse be it physicals, or mental.. other than that it is none of their damn business.  The majority of parents are a pretty good judge on what is right or wrong to be teaching their own kids, and this whole gender studies is a waste of time, it really not a valuable life skill, now it might interest you, but i don't delve into the world of fantasy... 

Parental rights are not imaginary, parents have full control over their children,including education one is free to either protest or make changes in what is taught in school or home school them, the school board does not have any control over your children if they are well behaved , and doing well in other classes....

[Americana Antifa]

7 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Actually anyone has that ability, it is not limited to the school, because it is a crime...

Yes, because we as a society accept that the parents don't have 100% control over their own kids. In certain cases, we say no, you can't do that.

So this narrative that it's somehow shocking or unprecedented that schools think they know better than certain parents is just phony outrage.

Quote

Here in NB we having a huge crises with our conservative premier who states that the parents must be notified about their children's change in gender pronouns, or sexual preference... and it is the LGBTQ lobby group that is challenging it

That makes sense. If a child is uncomfortable with their parents knowing that they might be gay or bi, the school shouldn't tell their parents anyway. If anything, it might put the child in danger if they have really homophobic parents.

With the pronoun thing, it's a bit more complicated. If a child has gender dysphoria, the parents should be informed so that they can get help. Though there is also the issue of the parents possibly being transphobic. So yeah, it's complicated and I don't pretend there is a black or white answer here. But when it comes to sexual orientation, it's pretty clear that should be up to the kid.

Quote

As for parents having a say in what is taught... ya they do , they have the same rights as anyone to protest what is being taught it is going on all across the US and Canada at this time...and parents are changing the status quo...Thats why they have school board meetings etc...

Yeah, that's always been a thing, but parents never had full say in the lesson plans. We never took a vote on if we should teach math.

[Zeitgeist]

27 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Actually anyone has that ability, it is not limited to the school, because it is a crime... Here in NB we having a huge crises with our conservative premier who states that the parents must be notified about their children's change in gender pronouns, or sexual preference... and it is the LGBTQ lobby group that is challenging it, with it endangers the Childs safety...and parents have no RIGHT to informed about anything in this topic... 

When did parents stop having rights to parent their children... 

As for parents having a say in what is taught... ya they do , they have the same rights as anyone to protest what is being taught it is going on all across the US and Canada at this time...and parents are changing the status quo...Thats why they have school board meetings etc...

Yes exactly.  What’s alarming is this assumption that most parents don’t have their kids’ best interests in mind.  The state assumes that parents are more harmful towards their own children than good.  It’s the Brave New World dystopian idea of putting the state in charge of reproduction and raising kids.

There’s a simple fix to this, which is to inform parents unless there’s reason to suspect abuse.  Also, there’s a difference between listening to a child say he thinks he should be a she at some point and he wants to be referred to officially now as a she.  In the latter case the permission has to go through parents for a name change, which would be on report cards, transcripts, etc. Nicknames are relatively harmless and can change. Parents aren’t always aware of their kids’ nicknames and it’s no big deal.

Also, consider that a child who wants to take on another gender can do so as an adult.  Countries are banning child sex changes because children often change their minds and it’s possible to saddle someone with an identity they don’t want for the rest of their lives.  Giving time to such considerations is critical.  Educators affirming a non-biological gender is risky and could make the educator liable.  I don’t understand how any of this isn’t obvious.  

Edited June 13, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

There is no right to the child's confidentiality.  

What about the 'child's' right to confidentiality?

Edited June 13, 2023 by eyeball

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

What about the 'child's' right to confidentiality?

Which adults apart from parents should have the right to your child’s confidences?  That sounds like an opportunity for child abuse.  

[Army Guy]

2 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

if they’re going to beat, or mentally abuse, their kid for this, then they lose their rights to parent their child.  Because it’s unknown which parents will do this, it’s safer for the child if the school doesn’t rat them out.   Or do you think kids should be endangered for the sake of “parental rights”?

If parents take it to this point then the it becomes a law matter does it not... not the schools problem, at no time should the school be keeping info away from the parents... Who is the first one they phone when they expel a student, the parents... who is the first persons contacted if they get injured, or hurt... or don't do well in certain topics, or all topics or when they are missing to much school... all of these could make a parent mad...even pissed off... I remember getting punished for  missing a couple days of school.... they do it for all of the above but can't tell the parents if their child changed pronouns or sexual preferences...thats a huge reach...

Your endangering a student augment does not hold much water...The parents are the Childs LEGAL guardian or did we all forget that...The school is not mentioned any where in that guardianship. 

It boils down to this the parents are responsible to ensure the kid grows up, healthy,  in a safe environment, gets an education, becomes a productive member of society... No where does it say the public schools system MUST provide that education. 

 

[herbie]

9 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

regular public meetings where you can address

Yes, and sometimes you have to go to them. Like when the local Jesus crew stacked a meeting tried to ban sex ed in high schools. And ensure there aren't enough of them seated on the Board it has enough sense to table it an publicize it for a future meeting. Had to attend one such in 2003.

The biggest town in our District is nicknamed JesusLand or Churchville.

[Army Guy]

12 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Yes, because we as a society accept that the parents don't have 100% control over their own kids. In certain cases, we say no, you can't do that.

So this narrative that it's somehow shocking or unprecedented that schools think they know better than certain parents is just phony outrage.

That makes sense. If a child is uncomfortable with their parents knowing that they might be gay or bi, the school shouldn't tell their parents anyway. If anything, it might put the child in danger if they have really homophobic parents.

With the pronoun thing, it's a bit more complicated. If a child has gender dysphoria, the parents should be informed so that they can get help. Though there is also the issue of the parents possibly being transphobic. So yeah, it's complicated and I don't pretend there is a black or white answer here. But when it comes to sexual orientation, it's pretty clear that should be up to the kid.

Yeah, that's always been a thing, but parents never had full say in the lesson plans. We never took a vote on if we should teach math.

This is not one of those cases, this is not a useful life skill, and it is not one of those cases where parents do not have control... if a parent wishes his child do not attend those classes then that wish is normally granted...

When it comes down to this topic, yes...i as a parent know better... please tell me how this info or action is going to make my Childs life better, is it going to limit him from getting a job, functioning in normal society ?  

I wonder how big this problem is going to be....how many children are effected by this homophobic parenting thing... 1 % maybe 5 %, how many ? That being said, life does get busy, and sometimes lose touch with children, do to work etc... but i would say a vast majority of parents are not going to over react, beat their children, they might struggle with that at first but this is their own flesh and blood... and if i found out that the school had been holding this info from me i would be upset...It comes down to this the parents should be the first to get this conversation, it should be the parents letting the school know of the issue ... the school has not control over my child at school other than discipline.

Well people and parents are becoming more vocal about this subject, all across this nation and the US, and things are changing in some places... keeping parents in the dark is never a good tactic...

  

[Army Guy]

23 minutes ago, eyeball said:

What about the 'child's' right to confidentiality?

when does that apply, when getting a tattoo, going to the liquor store, smoking, changing sexual preferences, starting taking drugs for sexual reassignment... at what point did you give your kids full confidentiality? 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

I understand you do not believe in the Bible or God, but that does not give you the right to teach your brand of morality to other people's kids.  Parents are the primary guardians of raising their children and teaching them morality, not schools or public officials.  Keep your sexual lessons away from our little ones.  People who believe in the perversions or support that kind of thing have no business trying to groom children. Stick with the three Rs.

Just because you believe doesn't give you the right to diddle with their minds any more than their bodies. My concern is also about the rights of the 'child' as it pertains to confidentiality. Stick with the topic or go back to the stone age you brought your's from.

[West]

For all you perverts calling people names for speaking out against the queer perversions, research the father of the gender insanity John Money. The guy engaged in child abuse and controversial "experiments" to "prove" his research that boys can be girls. The man is sick and did harm to kids. 

Thats who you worship and idolize