Liberal government destroyed the Crown

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 2/7/2024 at 1:27 PM, I am Groot said:

Because I like rule by elected rather than appointed leaders?

Then why support the monarchy? Even worse, some foreigner who has no real connection to this country? 

[I am Groot]

5 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Then why support the monarchy? Even worse, some foreigner who has no real connection to this country? 

It's a constitutional monarchy. Look it up sometime on that Googly thing. 

5 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

There’s a difference between valuing one’s history and being a slave to it. 

What do YOU value about our history?

[Black Dog]

On 2/7/2024 at 9:57 AM, I am Groot said:

Nonsense. I'm all for memorializing the great points of Canada's history. Unfortunately, we don't do that. The last time I went to the National History Museum in Gatineau it had virtually nothing about Canada there other than the natives. Exhibit after exhibit after exhibit on natives but ZERO on how confederation came about. IS that weird and wild or what? Nothing on our prime ministers through the ages. Nothing on the struggle to unite the country, on building the railroad, on incorporating Newfoundland. Lots of natives, though! 

That place has been decolonized like hell. It's a perfect Liberal museum!

That's weird because I just looked at the website and you can do a virtual tour of the whole space and there's an entire gallery on "Canada within the British Empire" spanning from 1763 to 1914 with exhibits on Confederation, the railroad, the RCMP etc.

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

That's weird because I just looked at the website and you can do a virtual tour of the whole space and there's an entire gallery on "Canada within the British Empire" spanning from 1763 to 1914 with exhibits on Confederation, the railroad, the RCMP etc.

The "Canada hall" was closed for reconstruction when I was there. And I can't say I'm overly impressed with what I can see online. It looks like it's a gallery of big wooden placards. I worked in the museums several decades ago and they were a lot more intimate and colourful in their connection between people and the exhibits.

And btw, having one hall in a museum devoted to Canada after confederation, a chunk of which is also devoted to the natives, is hardly enough for a national museum dedicated to Canada's history.

[Dougie93]

7 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Then why support the monarchy?

because without the monarchy Canada will simply cease to exist

since you don't have an alternate constitution

and a constitutional convention to overthrow the British Crown is not in the works

at the end of the day, there is no Canada without the Crown

you could plausibly stage a revolution to overthrow Canada

but I would suggest, the vast majority of Canadians simply do not have the desire nor stomach for the fight

moreover, we Loyalists would win that war in the end, hanging the traitors from the yardarm

it doesn't take a majority to rule

the vast majority of Canadian citizens are sheep

only the Loyalists are prepared to go to war for Regiment, Colours & Commander-in-Chief

[Dougie93]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

What do YOU value about our history?

traitors to the Crown are not actually Canadian

literally by definition, by the oath of allegiance

only Loyalists are brethren

from Queenston Heights to Hill One Four Five at Pas de Calais, and beyond

[SpankyMcFarland]

4 hours ago, I am Groot said:

It's a constitutional monarchy. Look it up sometime on that Googly thing. 

What do YOU value about our history?

I’m sure I value many of the things you do. I’m grateful we did not become part of the US. Countries can always be improved and should reflect the times they are in. 

Edited February 9 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 5/8/2023 at 1:25 PM, Dougie93 said:

I'm a British Protestant

Have you ever described yourself that way to an ordinary British person? 

[Dougie93]

7 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Have you ever described yourself that way to an ordinary British person? 

what is an "ordinary" British person ?

[Nefarious Banana]

2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

what is an "ordinary" British person ?

You?

[Zeitgeist]

14 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

traitors to the Crown are not actually Canadian

literally by definition, by the oath of allegiance

only Loyalists are brethren

from Queenston Heights to Hill One Four Five at Pas de Calais, and beyond

You’re right.  Canada is Loyalist by definition.  Don’t like it, move to the US.  I think about moving to the US, but not because I’m not a Loyalist.  It’s because I think our own federal government are traitors and the US is propping up Canada due to our weak leadership.

[Dougie93]

9 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

You?

no greater honour nor privilege

to be just another face in the ranks

of HM Royal Canadian Infantry Corps

with the brothers to the left & right of you

for Her Majesty, the Colonel-in-Chief

Queen & Empress

Mother Canada

Ducimus

[Dougie93]

21 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re right.  Canada is Loyalist by definition.

what the average Canadian simply fails to grasp, in their general ignorance of the founding of their state

is that the fall of the British Crown is not going to result in a liberal democratic republic

the void will rather be filled by collectivist totalitarianism

the Glorious Revolution of 1688 saved the Britons from tyranny and associated endless civil war

because again, British is not a race, British is not a place

British is a Union between mortal enemies, who agreed to make peace

so that everyone could get rich beyond their wildest dreams

if the Union goes away, the mortal enemies will go back to warring against each other, right away

thus how the Dutch Regent was such an Enlightened Commander-in-Chief

and tho the Fenians are constantly portraying themselves as the victims

in actual fact, the Fenians are simply on the side of the forces of darkness and associated widespread poverty

to wit, yes, Marge, the Fenians are in fact the bad guys, and the Prince of Orange is the heroic champion

the Confederation of 1867 is literally the Orangemen defending the Enlightenment from the proto-IRA

whose purpose was to incite a violent revolution  by way of Quebec

tho there are many layers of proxy

the parties remain the same

you've got Protestant British North Ameria vs Romanist French & Indians

with the American republic spilling over the ramparts

thus how Canada is a giant Ulster

the Westminster Parliament in Ottawa was not founded by John MacDonald in 1867

it was founded by William Prince of Orange in 1690

and Queen Elizabeth II was his heir & successor

only HM defends the right, when you only two sword lengths apart living in Ulster

and it is that which by solemn oath before God Himself

every member of HM Canadian Armed Forces is bound to defend, with their lives as neccesary

A mare usque ad mari

Edited February 10 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

21 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

 I think about moving to the US, but not because I’m not a Loyalist.

hence why I don't try to convert you in my Evangelical zeal

because we are already brothers in arms

Loyalist Jacobites are the Highlanders

team of rivals

love thine enemies

Cuidich 'n Righ

[Dougie93]

21 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

 Don’t like it, move to the US. 

well, perhaps to be a 75th Ranger

the only British regiment in the United States Army

 founded as a Loyalist Militia by Leftenant Colonel Robert Rogers in 1755

whom was a Ulster Scot

[Zeitgeist]

It’s important to remember though that the roots of the British Parliament are a combination of the Germanic assembly (an ancient form of people’s assembly) and Roman administration, as Rome had an effective administrative hierarchy.  Also very importantly, the massive Holy Roman Empire that lasted until the Great Schism of 1054 had reached its height in around the 10th century in the time of Byzantium.  The great poet Yates wrote about this civilizational peak.

People also forget that Constantine, the first Christian emperor, had been in charge of the quadrant of the Roman Empire centred in York, England, hence why York (later also the centre during Viking occupation) was so significant.  It’s why within Britain there was the great rivalry between the north which was under Danes’ law and the counties to the south.  In 800 AD the Assembly at Bath took place, usually referred to as the start of Britain under its first King Alfred.  Prior to then Britain was basically a neglected Roman jurisdiction, Britannia, which had fallen prey to northern invaders.

Later on we have the Norman invasion of 1066, rule from France, and the beginning of hard limits to the monarchy under the Magna Carta of 1215.  After that you have many moves that developed a tremendously powerful state over centuries, from the resolution of the conflict between the houses of North and South in the War of the Roses, to the Tudor dynasty and first break from Roman control, to the tremendously powerful reign of Elizabeth the First to the English Civil War and resolution of conflict between the Royalists and Parliamentarians, establishment of the Commonwealth, restoration of the Stuarts, and the repudiation of the Catholic Stuart line through the invitation to William of Orange and the connection made to the House of Hannover.  Many Canadians don’t understand that the House of Hannover is embedded in the name of the province New Brunswick.

No doubt the British state was largely settled as a Protestant country by the early 18th century, and that’s the Britain that fought and defeated the French in North America then later in Europe defeated Napoleon.

The Americans were a break off revolutionary crowd that got a lot of supplies and support from France, the Dutch, and even the Irish.

However, largely out of self-protection, the British reconciled with the Catholics/Jacobites in Loyalist Canada.  The English Loyalists were vastly outnumbered by the French in Quebec and parts of Nova Scotia (which had included present New Brunswick territory).  It’s also important to understand that places like Cape Breton had French speaking communities (still do) and Irish and Scottish of various Christian denominations, including Catholic.

The break away US didn’t like the way the English tolerated these French Catholics and they certainly expressed their frustration after the Revolution with Manifest Destiny.

Overlaying all of these cultural tensions in North America later on was the ongoing suppression of Catholics in Britain and the work of people like Parnell and British Prime Minister Gladstone to resolve the oppressive tenant rents and Protestant control.

The union of the Canadas and the creation of Canada as a state was an achievement because it preserved both the Catholic and Protestant cultures and granted basically the same rights to each for owning land, running for office, religious education, etc.

The Fenians from the US got very little support in Canada for their Irish rebellion, because Canada resolved these major religious tensions by the conditions of its founding. It eluded the various Irish troubles in Britain.  As slavery had been banned in the British Empire since 1832, Canada also avoided the conflicts over slavery that tore a gaping hole in the US during the Civil War.  We didn’t massacre Indians in our westward expansion, unlike the US, largely because British North America needed the Indians onside.  Indeed, the Indians helped the Loyalists during the American Revolution and later with Tecumseh with the plan of establishing an Indian territory in the Ohio Valley, a plan scuttled by Yankee Manifest Destiny.

The bottom line is that Canada has had a very peaceful and harmonious history compared to just about every other country.  We need to celebrate that and remember that it’s the reason why Canada could unify so quickly and get behind humanitarian causes, the defeat of Nazism, defeating Communism, and peacekeeping.  It’s also important to understand the roots of our freedom and parliamentary democracy.  They didn’t just fall from the sky, so the cultural revolutionaries who want to paint Canada as genocidal and racist really don’t understand history or what an achievement Canada really is. We just need a government that understands this and works for Canadian prosperity and freedom, not external forces that don’t have Canadian interests at heart.

Edited February 10 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The bottom line is that Canada has had a very peaceful and harmonious history compared to just about every other country. 

except for the French & Indian Wars

the Seven Years War

The Revolutionary War

The War of 1812

The Mackenzie Papineau Rebellion

the Fenian Raids

The Boer War

The First World War

The Second World War

The Korean War

the Suez Crisis

the Cypriot Crisis

the Gulf War

Somalia

Haiti

Croatia

Bosnia

Kosovo

Afghanistan

Iraq

Libya

Mali

statistically, Canada has deployed for a war every 18 years

one war for every generation of Canadians therein

Shock Troops of the Empire

[Zeitgeist]

50 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

except for the French & Indian Wars

the Seven Years War

The Revolutionary War

The War of 1812

The Mackenzie Papineau Rebellion

the Fenian Raids

The Boer War

The First World War

The Second World War

The Korean War

the Suez Crisis

the Cypriot Crisis

the Gulf War

Somalia

Haiti

Croatia

Bosnia

Kosovo

Afghanistan

Iraq

Libya

Mali

statistically, Canada has deployed for a war every 18 years

one war for every generation of Canadians therein

Shock Troops of the Empire

True.  I was thinking domestically.  Most of the foreign causes were noble or arguably noble.  On Canadian territory how much bloodshed are we talking?  The rebellions in Upper and Lower Canada were small time. The Fenian raids were basically bar brawls gone awry. Some of these overseas missions were messy and of questionable clarity or merit, in Africa especially.  Then again, there’s work you do for allies sometimes that doesn’t give you an advantage, but if it helps out your allies you make the sacrifice.  That’s pretty much WW1. War of 1812 was certainly about Canadian interests, though today I’m not sure our federal government supports Canadian interests.

Edited February 10 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

  The rebellions in Upper and Lower Canada were small time. 

not to me

as that was the birth of Canadian democracy

literally a formation war

wherein the British Governors were forced to concede Representation to the colonists

or face an outright revolt, perhaps with the colonists siding with the Americans otherwise

the Peace of the Canada's was made, in the wake of this brink of catastrophic civil war

[Dougie93]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

  The Fenian raids were basically bar brawls gone awry.

not at all

that was the Fenian veterans of the American Civil War come to overrun Toronto

and they decimated the Queen's Own Rifles on the way

it was not Canada who saved itself then

it was only General Ulysses Grant who put the Fenians down, when Canada failed to do so

the panic in the wake of this crisis, is the only reason for Confederation just months later in July 1867

 

[Dougie93]

12 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 Some of these overseas missions were messy and of questionable clarity or merit,

HM Royal Canadian Infantry Corps fights for the Vimy Myth

Hill One Four Five

the best soldiers in the world will win the Great War in a Hundred Days

or die trying

Ducimus

 

[Dougie93]

21 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 Then again, there’s work you do for allies sometimes that doesn’t give you an advantage,

that's not why the Canadian Corps sacrificed

as unlike the English, Scots & Irish, the Canadian Corps could not go home on leave

the Canadian Crops could only return home again

if and when they won the war,

by their owns means

in the face of allies who had simply failed to do it without Canada

[Zeitgeist]

29 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

not to me

as that was the birth of Canadian democracy

literally a formation war

wherein the British Governors were forced to concede Representation to the colonists

or face an outright revolt, perhaps with the colonists siding with the Americans otherwise

the Peace of the Canada's was made, in the wake of this brink of catastrophic civil war

Well for sure the cause was important.  I meant in terms of violence and bloodshed it was minor.  Politically it was highly significant.  Most Torontonians don’t know that their most significant mayor was a leader of the Rebellion of Upper Canada.  He was revolutionary and seriously considered throwing our lot in with the Yanks.  That important movement certainly further democratized Ontario and planted roots for Confederation. The Family Compact that ran Upper Canada had basically been landed gentry.

Edited February 10 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I meant in terms of violence and bloodshed is was minor. 

to an infantryman, there is no difference

you can only fight the enemy soldier directly to your front

and once you close to bayonet range with him

all war is the same

[Zeitgeist]

25 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

not at all

that was the Fenian veterans of the American Civil War come to overrun Toronto

and they decimated the Queen's Own Rifles on the way

it was not Canada who saved itself then

it was only General Ulysses Grant who put the Fenians down, when Canada failed to do so

the panic in the wake of this crisis, is the only reason for Confederation just months later in July 1867

 

Well sure.  It’s similar to the fact that the Loyalists held forts on the US side at the end of the War of 1812 but gave them up in treaty negotiations.  Letting the Fenians reap havoc was bad for business on both sides of the border. British North America had better ways of resolving Irish fervour.  The Yanks needed to contain sectarianism for similar reasons of unity.  

Edited February 10 by Zeitgeist