SpankyMcFarland Posted February 8 Report Posted February 8 On 2/7/2024 at 1:27 PM, I am Groot said: Because I like rule by elected rather than appointed leaders? Then why support the monarchy? Even worse, some foreigner who has no real connection to this country? 1 Quote
I am Groot Posted February 8 Report Posted February 8 5 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Then why support the monarchy? Even worse, some foreigner who has no real connection to this country? It's a constitutional monarchy. Look it up sometime on that Googly thing. 5 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: There’s a difference between valuing one’s history and being a slave to it. What do YOU value about our history? Quote
Black Dog Posted February 8 Report Posted February 8 On 2/7/2024 at 9:57 AM, I am Groot said: Nonsense. I'm all for memorializing the great points of Canada's history. Unfortunately, we don't do that. The last time I went to the National History Museum in Gatineau it had virtually nothing about Canada there other than the natives. Exhibit after exhibit after exhibit on natives but ZERO on how confederation came about. IS that weird and wild or what? Nothing on our prime ministers through the ages. Nothing on the struggle to unite the country, on building the railroad, on incorporating Newfoundland. Lots of natives, though! That place has been decolonized like hell. It's a perfect Liberal museum! That's weird because I just looked at the website and you can do a virtual tour of the whole space and there's an entire gallery on "Canada within the British Empire" spanning from 1763 to 1914 with exhibits on Confederation, the railroad, the RCMP etc. Quote "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." - Francis M. Wilhoit
I am Groot Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 1 hour ago, Black Dog said: That's weird because I just looked at the website and you can do a virtual tour of the whole space and there's an entire gallery on "Canada within the British Empire" spanning from 1763 to 1914 with exhibits on Confederation, the railroad, the RCMP etc. The "Canada hall" was closed for reconstruction when I was there. And I can't say I'm overly impressed with what I can see online. It looks like it's a gallery of big wooden placards. I worked in the museums several decades ago and they were a lot more intimate and colourful in their connection between people and the exhibits. And btw, having one hall in a museum devoted to Canada after confederation, a chunk of which is also devoted to the natives, is hardly enough for a national museum dedicated to Canada's history. 2 Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 7 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Then why support the monarchy? because without the monarchy Canada will simply cease to exist since you don't have an alternate constitution and a constitutional convention to overthrow the British Crown is not in the works at the end of the day, there is no Canada without the Crown you could plausibly stage a revolution to overthrow Canada but I would suggest, the vast majority of Canadians simply do not have the desire nor stomach for the fight moreover, we Loyalists would win that war in the end, hanging the traitors from the yardarm it doesn't take a majority to rule the vast majority of Canadian citizens are sheep only the Loyalists are prepared to go to war for Regiment, Colours & Commander-in-Chief Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 2 hours ago, I am Groot said: What do YOU value about our history? traitors to the Crown are not actually Canadian literally by definition, by the oath of allegiance only Loyalists are brethren from Queenston Heights to Hill One Four Five at Pas de Calais, and beyond Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 (edited) 4 hours ago, I am Groot said: It's a constitutional monarchy. Look it up sometime on that Googly thing. What do YOU value about our history? I’m sure I value many of the things you do. I’m grateful we did not become part of the US. Countries can always be improved and should reflect the times they are in. Edited February 9 by SpankyMcFarland Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 On 5/8/2023 at 1:25 PM, Dougie93 said: I'm a British Protestant Have you ever described yourself that way to an ordinary British person? Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 7 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Have you ever described yourself that way to an ordinary British person? what is an "ordinary" British person ? Quote
Nefarious Banana Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 2 hours ago, Dougie93 said: what is an "ordinary" British person ? You? Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 14 hours ago, Dougie93 said: traitors to the Crown are not actually Canadian literally by definition, by the oath of allegiance only Loyalists are brethren from Queenston Heights to Hill One Four Five at Pas de Calais, and beyond You’re right. Canada is Loyalist by definition. Don’t like it, move to the US. I think about moving to the US, but not because I’m not a Loyalist. It’s because I think our own federal government are traitors and the US is propping up Canada due to our weak leadership. Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 9 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said: You? no greater honour nor privilege to be just another face in the ranks of HM Royal Canadian Infantry Corps with the brothers to the left & right of you for Her Majesty, the Colonel-in-Chief Queen & Empress Mother Canada Ducimus Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 (edited) 21 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: You’re right. Canada is Loyalist by definition. what the average Canadian simply fails to grasp, in their general ignorance of the founding of their state is that the fall of the British Crown is not going to result in a liberal democratic republic the void will rather be filled by collectivist totalitarianism the Glorious Revolution of 1688 saved the Britons from tyranny and associated endless civil war because again, British is not a race, British is not a place British is a Union between mortal enemies, who agreed to make peace so that everyone could get rich beyond their wildest dreams if the Union goes away, the mortal enemies will go back to warring against each other, right away thus how the Dutch Regent was such an Enlightened Commander-in-Chief and tho the Fenians are constantly portraying themselves as the victims in actual fact, the Fenians are simply on the side of the forces of darkness and associated widespread poverty to wit, yes, Marge, the Fenians are in fact the bad guys, and the Prince of Orange is the heroic champion the Confederation of 1867 is literally the Orangemen defending the Enlightenment from the proto-IRA whose purpose was to incite a violent revolution by way of Quebec tho there are many layers of proxy the parties remain the same you've got Protestant British North Ameria vs Romanist French & Indians with the American republic spilling over the ramparts thus how Canada is a giant Ulster the Westminster Parliament in Ottawa was not founded by John MacDonald in 1867 it was founded by William Prince of Orange in 1690 and Queen Elizabeth II was his heir & successor only HM defends the right, when you only two sword lengths apart living in Ulster and it is that which by solemn oath before God Himself every member of HM Canadian Armed Forces is bound to defend, with their lives as neccesary A mare usque ad mari Edited February 10 by Dougie93 1 Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 21 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: I think about moving to the US, but not because I’m not a Loyalist. hence why I don't try to convert you in my Evangelical zeal because we are already brothers in arms Loyalist Jacobites are the Highlanders team of rivals love thine enemies Cuidich 'n Righ Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 21 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Don’t like it, move to the US. well, perhaps to be a 75th Ranger the only British regiment in the United States Army founded as a Loyalist Militia by Leftenant Colonel Robert Rogers in 1755 whom was a Ulster Scot Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 (edited) It’s important to remember though that the roots of the British Parliament are a combination of the Germanic assembly (an ancient form of people’s assembly) and Roman administration, as Rome had an effective administrative hierarchy. Also very importantly, the massive Holy Roman Empire that lasted until the Great Schism of 1054 had reached its height in around the 10th century in the time of Byzantium. The great poet Yates wrote about this civilizational peak. People also forget that Constantine, the first Christian emperor, had been in charge of the quadrant of the Roman Empire centred in York, England, hence why York (later also the centre during Viking occupation) was so significant. It’s why within Britain there was the great rivalry between the north which was under Danes’ law and the counties to the south. In 800 AD the Assembly at Bath took place, usually referred to as the start of Britain under its first King Alfred. Prior to then Britain was basically a neglected Roman jurisdiction, Britannia, which had fallen prey to northern invaders. Later on we have the Norman invasion of 1066, rule from France, and the beginning of hard limits to the monarchy under the Magna Carta of 1215. After that you have many moves that developed a tremendously powerful state over centuries, from the resolution of the conflict between the houses of North and South in the War of the Roses, to the Tudor dynasty and first break from Roman control, to the tremendously powerful reign of Elizabeth the First to the English Civil War and resolution of conflict between the Royalists and Parliamentarians, establishment of the Commonwealth, restoration of the Stuarts, and the repudiation of the Catholic Stuart line through the invitation to William of Orange and the connection made to the House of Hannover. Many Canadians don’t understand that the House of Hannover is embedded in the name of the province New Brunswick. No doubt the British state was largely settled as a Protestant country by the early 18th century, and that’s the Britain that fought and defeated the French in North America then later in Europe defeated Napoleon. The Americans were a break off revolutionary crowd that got a lot of supplies and support from France, the Dutch, and even the Irish. However, largely out of self-protection, the British reconciled with the Catholics/Jacobites in Loyalist Canada. The English Loyalists were vastly outnumbered by the French in Quebec and parts of Nova Scotia (which had included present New Brunswick territory). It’s also important to understand that places like Cape Breton had French speaking communities (still do) and Irish and Scottish of various Christian denominations, including Catholic. The break away US didn’t like the way the English tolerated these French Catholics and they certainly expressed their frustration after the Revolution with Manifest Destiny. Overlaying all of these cultural tensions in North America later on was the ongoing suppression of Catholics in Britain and the work of people like Parnell and British Prime Minister Gladstone to resolve the oppressive tenant rents and Protestant control. The union of the Canadas and the creation of Canada as a state was an achievement because it preserved both the Catholic and Protestant cultures and granted basically the same rights to each for owning land, running for office, religious education, etc. The Fenians from the US got very little support in Canada for their Irish rebellion, because Canada resolved these major religious tensions by the conditions of its founding. It eluded the various Irish troubles in Britain. As slavery had been banned in the British Empire since 1832, Canada also avoided the conflicts over slavery that tore a gaping hole in the US during the Civil War. We didn’t massacre Indians in our westward expansion, unlike the US, largely because British North America needed the Indians onside. Indeed, the Indians helped the Loyalists during the American Revolution and later with Tecumseh with the plan of establishing an Indian territory in the Ohio Valley, a plan scuttled by Yankee Manifest Destiny. The bottom line is that Canada has had a very peaceful and harmonious history compared to just about every other country. We need to celebrate that and remember that it’s the reason why Canada could unify so quickly and get behind humanitarian causes, the defeat of Nazism, defeating Communism, and peacekeeping. It’s also important to understand the roots of our freedom and parliamentary democracy. They didn’t just fall from the sky, so the cultural revolutionaries who want to paint Canada as genocidal and racist really don’t understand history or what an achievement Canada really is. We just need a government that understands this and works for Canadian prosperity and freedom, not external forces that don’t have Canadian interests at heart. Edited February 10 by Zeitgeist Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: The bottom line is that Canada has had a very peaceful and harmonious history compared to just about every other country. except for the French & Indian Wars the Seven Years War The Revolutionary War The War of 1812 The Mackenzie Papineau Rebellion the Fenian Raids The Boer War The First World War The Second World War The Korean War the Suez Crisis the Cypriot Crisis the Gulf War Somalia Haiti Croatia Bosnia Kosovo Afghanistan Iraq Libya Mali statistically, Canada has deployed for a war every 18 years one war for every generation of Canadians therein Shock Troops of the Empire Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: except for the French & Indian Wars the Seven Years War The Revolutionary War The War of 1812 The Mackenzie Papineau Rebellion the Fenian Raids The Boer War The First World War The Second World War The Korean War the Suez Crisis the Cypriot Crisis the Gulf War Somalia Haiti Croatia Bosnia Kosovo Afghanistan Iraq Libya Mali statistically, Canada has deployed for a war every 18 years one war for every generation of Canadians therein Shock Troops of the Empire True. I was thinking domestically. Most of the foreign causes were noble or arguably noble. On Canadian territory how much bloodshed are we talking? The rebellions in Upper and Lower Canada were small time. The Fenian raids were basically bar brawls gone awry. Some of these overseas missions were messy and of questionable clarity or merit, in Africa especially. Then again, there’s work you do for allies sometimes that doesn’t give you an advantage, but if it helps out your allies you make the sacrifice. That’s pretty much WW1. War of 1812 was certainly about Canadian interests, though today I’m not sure our federal government supports Canadian interests. Edited February 10 by Zeitgeist Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: The rebellions in Upper and Lower Canada were small time. not to me as that was the birth of Canadian democracy literally a formation war wherein the British Governors were forced to concede Representation to the colonists or face an outright revolt, perhaps with the colonists siding with the Americans otherwise the Peace of the Canada's was made, in the wake of this brink of catastrophic civil war Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: The Fenian raids were basically bar brawls gone awry. not at all that was the Fenian veterans of the American Civil War come to overrun Toronto and they decimated the Queen's Own Rifles on the way it was not Canada who saved itself then it was only General Ulysses Grant who put the Fenians down, when Canada failed to do so the panic in the wake of this crisis, is the only reason for Confederation just months later in July 1867 Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 12 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Some of these overseas missions were messy and of questionable clarity or merit, HM Royal Canadian Infantry Corps fights for the Vimy Myth Hill One Four Five the best soldiers in the world will win the Great War in a Hundred Days or die trying Ducimus 1 Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 21 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Then again, there’s work you do for allies sometimes that doesn’t give you an advantage, that's not why the Canadian Corps sacrificed as unlike the English, Scots & Irish, the Canadian Corps could not go home on leave the Canadian Crops could only return home again if and when they won the war, by their owns means in the face of allies who had simply failed to do it without Canada 1 Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: not to me as that was the birth of Canadian democracy literally a formation war wherein the British Governors were forced to concede Representation to the colonists or face an outright revolt, perhaps with the colonists siding with the Americans otherwise the Peace of the Canada's was made, in the wake of this brink of catastrophic civil war Well for sure the cause was important. I meant in terms of violence and bloodshed it was minor. Politically it was highly significant. Most Torontonians don’t know that their most significant mayor was a leader of the Rebellion of Upper Canada. He was revolutionary and seriously considered throwing our lot in with the Yanks. That important movement certainly further democratized Ontario and planted roots for Confederation. The Family Compact that ran Upper Canada had basically been landed gentry. Edited February 10 by Zeitgeist Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: I meant in terms of violence and bloodshed is was minor. to an infantryman, there is no difference you can only fight the enemy soldier directly to your front and once you close to bayonet range with him all war is the same Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: not at all that was the Fenian veterans of the American Civil War come to overrun Toronto and they decimated the Queen's Own Rifles on the way it was not Canada who saved itself then it was only General Ulysses Grant who put the Fenians down, when Canada failed to do so the panic in the wake of this crisis, is the only reason for Confederation just months later in July 1867 Well sure. It’s similar to the fact that the Loyalists held forts on the US side at the end of the War of 1812 but gave them up in treaty negotiations. Letting the Fenians reap havoc was bad for business on both sides of the border. British North America had better ways of resolving Irish fervour. The Yanks needed to contain sectarianism for similar reasons of unity. Edited February 10 by Zeitgeist Quote
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