Risk of World War

[sharkman]

On 5/4/2022 at 8:20 PM, August1991 said:

In 1962, Kennedy and his staff understood the risk.

Nowadays, Biden is like Brezhnev in 1982.

If Biden is like Brezhnev, then Trump is like Kennedy.  Biden and NATO are right now supporting Lithuania who is blockading food supply from Kalingrad to Russian ally Belarus, via the Suwalki corridor.

NATO countries are supplying troops all along the Russian borders with Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland.

Once again NATO is trying to goad Russia into war.  I’m telling you, the world government wants to take Russia out.  If this goes into all out war and Russia starts losing, Putin is crazy enough to launch nukes.

And very few people seem to know that Russia now has hypersonic ballistic missiles, nobody else has this technology.

3 times faster and therefore can’t be shot down with Patriot style missile systems.  We are getting closer to a nuclear solution.

[eyeball]

9 hours ago, Aristides said:

 

How do you know how the normal people of the Baltic states feel, they have plenty of reason to be afraid of Russia. Sweden is building up its defences on Gotland, an Island closest to the Baltic States. I would suggest they are more qualified to assess threats to them than we are.

I meant normal people here reacting to news of Russians within 1600 miles of the US. People in Alaska can see Russkies every day from their houses.

I can relate to Baltic people's, Swedes and anyone else who lives next door to an unstable nuclear-armed super-rogue, I don't like it any more than they do.

[Aristides]

9 hours ago, 500channelsurfer said:

Is NATO really more powerful since its expansion to include the Baltic states? I think NATO is spreading out its forces thinner and angering what the west perceives as war-mongering Russia by expanding eastwards. Yes, Britain is powerful militarily, but history teaches us the more you spread out, the less powerful you are. If one is pro-Russia and not pro-west, then one has even more reason to believe NATO is a provocateur as it swallows former Soviet and Soviet satellite states. From either viewpoint, NATO expansion eastward is more likely a step towards war, not peace.

How is NATO spread out, NATO is about European defence. Countries join NATO because Russia threatens their security.

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

I meant normal people here reacting to news of Russians within 1600 miles of the US. People in Alaska can see Russkies every day from their houses.

I can relate to Baltic people's, Swedes and anyone else who lives next door to an unstable nuclear-armed super-rogue, I don't like it any more than they do.

 

They can't really but Elmendorf Richardson in Anchorage is one of the biggest military bases in the US. F-22 Raptors are based at Elmendorf and F-35's are based at Eileson near Fairbanks.

[sharkman]

Here’s a link in addition to my above post:

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/russia-lithuania-kaliningrad-ukraine/2022/06/20/id/1075176/
 

“Russia may resort to tough measures should the situation in the Kaliningrad region aggravate to critical due to the blockade — in terms of food, energy supplies, in social terms,” the senator told Lenta.ru. “If Lithuania continues acting the way it is acting now, causing a very difficult situation to develop in the region, Russia may take very tough actions.”

[Nationalist]

Just a thought but...

I remember a funny looking POTUS who would publicly muse about the USA and Russia becoming allies. 

I have to wonder if this little proxy-war should have even happened?

Globalization justified the nations to buy gas and oil from Russia. In some cases...if not all...the climate freaks made such deals inevitable. 

Wow...ya really do gits wut ya pays fer...eh?

[eyeball]

55 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Globalization justified the nations to buy gas and oil from Russia. In some cases...if not all...the climate freaks made such deals inevitable.

Nonsense, economic growth justified globalization. In some cases...if not all...the lack of principles with regards to who we wheel and deal with only made dictators stronger and us weaker.  It's probably also worsened the likelihood of meaningful climate action going forward.

Quote

Wow...ya really do gits wut ya pays fer...eh?

That's right.

Edited June 26, 2022 by eyeball

[sharkman]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Just a thought but...

I remember a funny looking POTUS who would publicly muse about the USA and Russia becoming allies. 

I have to wonder if this little proxy-war should have even happened?

Globalization justified the nations to buy gas and oil from Russia. In some cases...if not all...the climate freaks made such deals inevitable. 

Wow...ya really do gits wut ya pays fer...eh?

Very true, environmentalism/climate fear has  forced commerce and trade in ways they never would have developed vs a state of true free trade.

[500channelsurfer]

12 hours ago, Aristides said:

How is NATO spread out, NATO is about European defence. Countries join NATO because Russia threatens their security.

Well, NATO's power base is Western Europe: Germany, France, Britain. The countries that have joined NATO in Eastern Europe add much less in military strength, while are much more susceptible to Russian aggression.

Edited June 26, 2022 by 500channelsurfer

[Aristides]

32 minutes ago, 500channelsurfer said:

Well, NATO's power base is Western Europe: Germany, France, Britain. The countries that have joined NATO in Eastern Europe add much less in military strength, while are much more susceptible to Russian aggression.

That's why they joined NATO, they can't hope to defend themselves against Russia alone. The addition of Sweden and Finland will be a significant increase to NATO capability.

[500channelsurfer]

Risk vs. Reward: Yes, maybe Sweden and Finland are worth the risk since they are relatively powerful countries even though they are very close geographically to Russia.

However many countries in Eastern Europe were not worth the risk since they are less powerful and more vulnerable.

Originally NATO was set up to safeguard counties with easy access to the Atlantic Ocean, hence North ATLANTIC Treaty Organization.

Maybe a better debate is what are the goals of NATO for the future.

[taxme]

22 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

?

Putin Apologists truly are ridiculous

BiDumb apologists are truly ridiculous. ?

[taxme]

20 hours ago, 500channelsurfer said:

Remember when America used to be united for the spread of freedom and democracy regardless of Democrat vs Republican? Where is THAT America now that it is needed?

Whatever the cause, internal fighting leading to inability to show international strength results in appeasement and weakening of international institutions and norms.

It all can be blamed on the demonrats. The demonrats have been preaching anarchy and hatred and violence and have been doing so for several decades now. Maxine Waters is now trying to foment an insurrection herself because of what the SC just did. But will she be charged for that?

No way, Jose. She is a lefty demorat and she can say whatever she wants to say without worrying about any consequences for her racist and pro insurrection behavior. America needs Trump today more than ever. ?

[Nationalist]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

Nonsense, economic growth justified globalization. In some cases...if not all...the lack of principles with regards to who we wheel and deal with only made dictators stronger and us weaker.  It's probably also worsened the likelihood of meaningful climate action going forward.

That's right.

Lol...its a failure and its obvious. 

[Nationalist]

5 hours ago, sharkman said:

Very true, environmentalism/climate fear has  forced commerce and trade in ways they never would have developed vs a state of true free trade.

I think the concept of "free trade" is nonsense. Nothing is free. And now we're all paying the price for...green energy IMMEDIATELY and of course...

RUSSIA!!!

man these people are lunatics. 

[Yzermandius19]

3 hours ago, taxme said:

BiDumb apologists are truly ridiculous. ?

both are ridiculous

[Yzermandius19]

On 6/25/2022 at 6:39 PM, 500channelsurfer said:

Spreading out NATO through too many countries (and very unfortunately this means the Baltic states) is weakness: History teaches us the more you spread out, the less powerful you are. Had NATO not been on Ukraine's doorstep, no appeasement would have even been in the question.

false

Russia is just using that as an excuse

if they couldn't use that excuse, they'd use another

if NATO was nowhere near Russia

they'd be even more aggressive

[FurriesRock]

11 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

false

Russia is just using that as an excuse

if they couldn't use that excuse, they'd use another

if NATO was nowhere near Russia

they'd be even more aggressive

This is a false assumption on your part.

 

[Yzermandius19]

6 minutes ago, FurriesRock said:

This is a false assumption on your part.

the false assumption is that Russia is just defending itself from NATO aggression and would be totally peaceful otherwise

[FurriesRock]

6 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the false assumption is that Russia is just defending itself from NATO aggression and would be totally peaceful otherwise

Look, I'm not sorry that I exposed your strawman fallacy for what it is.

Maybe try using real and verifiable facts instead of hysteria driven fairytales to support your arguments.

 

[Yzermandius19]

5 minutes ago, FurriesRock said:

Look, I'm not sorry that I exposed your strawman fallacy for what it is.

Maybe try using real and verifiable facts instead of hysteria driven fairytales to support your arguments.

history verifies

the Russians have never respected weakness, they exploit it by force

they only respect strength

without a major power they fear to keep them in check

like America during the Cold War

they are notorious warmongers and have been for centuries

even when restrained they still start shit, see Afghanistan

Edited June 27, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[Nationalist]

On 6/25/2022 at 11:22 PM, eyeball said:

I meant normal people here reacting to news of Russians within 1600 miles of the US. People in Alaska can see Russkies every day from their houses.

I can relate to Baltic people's, Swedes and anyone else who lives next door to an unstable nuclear-armed super-rogue, I don't like it any more than they do.

"super-rogue"...LOL...what nonsense.

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

history verifies

the Russians have never respected weakness, they exploit it by force

they only respect strength

without a major power they fear to keep them in check

like America during the Cold War

they are notorious warmongers and have been for centuries

even when restrained they still start shit, see Afghanistan

Dude...you're making wild and unsupportable accusations.

If Russia is a warmonger nation...shall we tippy-toe through recent American warmongering? Or is that justifiable to you?

[taxme]

20 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

both are ridiculous

The whole bloody world appears to have become ridiculous. BiDumb and Turdeau being two of the world's most ridiculous leader bimbos. ?

[FurriesRock]

8 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

history verifies

 

This is bullshit