Trucker's Convoy

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’m sorry to hear that.

Meh...

Quote

Nevertheless, murdering the unvaccinated isn’t peachy.

Probably not but it's certainly how I feel when I'm left trying to process the fear I see in my wife's eyes, the concern I hear in her kid's voices and my own angry helplessness.

I have zero sympathy for anti-vaxxers. The number of people with legitimate medical reasons for not vaccinating is miniscule. Everyone else should have two options, get vaccinated or stay at home and isolate. If you people need to be compensated for that then fine...whatever it takes to keep society safe from you.  

It's obviously too late for COVID but the next time this happens it should never ever be forgotten that trying to accommodate and pander to stupidity and paranoia costs unnecessary and avoidable death and sickness for hundreds of thousands if not millions of people. They've made this entire shitty deal far shittier than it ever needed to be and what really rankles is that is was obvious from the beginning it would. And why? For no better or apparent reason than being dutiful on-message partisans for the most part. COVID's favourite transmission vector bar none.

[Zeitgeist]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

Meh...

Probably not but it's certainly how I feel when I'm left trying to process the fear I see in my wife's eyes, the concern I hear in her kid's voices and my own angry helplessness.

I have zero sympathy for anti-vaxxers. The number of people with legitimate medical reasons for not vaccinating is miniscule. Everyone else should have two options, get vaccinated or stay at home and isolate. If you people need to be compensated for that then fine...whatever it takes to keep society safe from you.  

It's obviously too late for COVID but the next time this happens it should never ever be forgotten that trying to accommodate and pander to stupidity and paranoia costs unnecessary and avoidable death and sickness for hundreds of thousands if not millions of people. They've made this entire shitty deal far shittier than it ever needed to be and what really rankles is that is was obvious from the beginning it would. And why? For no better or apparent reason than being dutiful on-message partisans for the most part. COVID's favourite transmission vector bar none.

First off, I’m triple vaccinated and I pushed hard to get the people who report to me access to vaccines as soon as possible, including providing them with letters.  I was upset at our government’s delays procuring the vaccine and wrote at length about the importance of having domestic vaccine manufacturing capacity.

 I also saw friends who resisted getting the vaccine panic over the possibility of job loss.  Their concerns were legitimate given the fast-tracked approval of vaccines, which was unprecedented.  Of course as the variants changed to the milder Omicron, it became clear that vaccination was largely only a mitigation.  Most people could fight that variant fairly easily, even the unvaccinated.  What’s more, vaccination didn’t make people less contagious, though it probably speeded their recovery.

My position today is that, like the flu shot, Covid vaccines are a protective measure that should be available to those who want them.  If you’re medically vulnerable, it’s a good idea to avail yourself of this mitigation.  That’s it though.  This vaccine isn’t like a smallpox vaccine that prevents one from getting it and spreading it.

 My whole family has had Covid and we all recovered quite quickly.  It was three days for me back in March.

The protests were about fighting government overreach, which has pushed people in unreasonable ways, making it hard for some to earn a living, hold certain political views (such as opposing mandates), and have the psychological well-being necessary to manage daily life.

The costs to businesses and taxpayers of our four lockdowns in Ontario haven’t been reconciled.  Our inflationary and economic woes will be with us for some time.  The gaps in student learning and social emotional development are huge.  The non-Covid health damages are enormous of all the restrictions and mandates.

For the first half of the pandemic, until vaccines became available to the vulnerable, I supported these Covid measures.  What we saw in 2022 in Canada, however, was a federal government acting arbitrarily and unscientifically to impose and maintain drastic measures against citizens, to the extent that protesting mandates could destroy your career, reputation, and finances.

Despite having the most dysfunctional airports in the world and massive passport and immigration processing backlogs, our government spitefully and ignorantly maintains mandates and processes like the ArriveCan app that discriminates against those who can’t afford cell phones or work technology.

Americans and Brits got access to vaccines faster than us and their governments didn’t shove them down people’s throats to the same degree that ours did.  Either we have constitutional rights or we don’t, whether you agree with how people choose to exercise them.  We have the right to protest, earn a livelihood, move and speak freely, etc.

We’ve heard too many justifications for too long about why these rights should be watered down or suspended because of a public health emergency.  We have to live with Covid and take what precautions we deem necessary based on our unique medical profiles.  We aren’t all the same and personal discretion has value.  If it doesn’t count anymore, then expect all manner of abuses from government.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

First off, I’m triple vaccinated and I pushed hard to get the people who report to me access to vaccines as soon as possible, including providing them with letters.  I was upset at our government’s delays procuring the vaccine and wrote at length about the importance of having domestic vaccine manufacturing capacity.

 I also saw friends who resisted getting the vaccine panic over the possibility of job loss.  Their concerns were legitimate given the fast-tracked approval of vaccines, which was unprecedented.  Of course as the variants changed to the milder Omicron, it became clear that vaccination was largely only a mitigation.  Most people could fight that variant fairly easily, even the unvaccinated.  What’s more, vaccination didn’t make people less contagious, though it probably speeded their recovery.

My position today is that, like the flu shot, Covid vaccines are a protective measure that should be available to those who want them.  If you’re medically vulnerable, it’s a good idea to avail yourself of this mitigation.  That’s it though.  This vaccine isn’t like a smallpox vaccine that prevents one from getting it and spreading it.

 My whole family has had Covid and we all recovered quite quickly.  It was three days for me back in March.

The protests were about fighting government overreach, which has pushed people in unreasonable ways, making it hard for some to earn a living, hold certain political views (such as opposing mandates), and have the psychological well-being necessary to manage daily life.

The costs to businesses and taxpayers of our four lockdowns in Ontario haven’t been reconciled.  Our inflationary and economic woes will be with us for some time.  The gaps in student learning and social emotional development are huge.  The non-Covid health damages are enormous of all the restrictions and mandates.

For the first half of the pandemic, until vaccines become available to the vulnerable, I supported these Covid measures.  What we saw in 2022 in Canada, however, was a federal government acting arbitrarily and unscientifically to impose and maintain drastic measures against citizens, to the extent that protesting mandates could destroy your career, reputation, and finances.

Despite having the most dysfunctional airports in the world and massive passport and immigration processing backlogs, our government spitefully and ignorantly maintains mandates and processes like the ArriveCan app that discriminates against those who can’t afford cell phones or work technology.

Americans and Brits got access to vaccines faster than us and their governments didn’t shove them down people’s throats to the same degree that ours did.  Either we have constitutional rights or we don’t, whether you agree with how people choose to exercise them.  We have the right to protest, earn a livelihood, move and speak freely, etc.

We’ve heard too many justifications for too long about why these rights should be watered down or suspended because of a public health emergency.  We have to live with Covid and take what precautions we deem necessary based on our unique medical profiles.  We aren’t all the same and personal discretion has value.  If it doesn’t count anymore, then expect all manner of abuses from government.

there's no point in trying to reason with the left

these people are utterly totalitarian

if you are not an adherent to their orthodoxy

never mind having no rights, they simply want to destroy you, because you are infidel

that being said, almost all the Gen Z males I encounter are already on the right

I don't have to convince them, they are telling me how Canada has become totalitarian

the younger males are being driven to the right by the lunacy of the Millennials

the future is right wing, the pendulum has already begun to swing back

I've made so many new friends, who are so young

I have these 21 year old men hanging out on my deck, talking about John Locke & Milton Friedman

I wouldn't encourage anyone to join the Woke Canadian Forces

none the less, all these men would make great soldiers

I admire them, it took me many years to figure out what they already know at 21

when I was their age, I was just drinking & partying & dating girls

while these lads are plotting how they are going to become millionaires

there is a right wing counterculture, and it is very young

Edited August 6, 2022 by Dougie93

[ExFlyer]

16 hours ago, Goddess said:

Riiiiiiggghhhht.

That's why 98% of your posts are just insults, devoid of information.

Oh, you say insult and I say calling them as I see them.

So, you don't like what I have to say but your insults and demeaning posts are OK??? Or are you just calling them as you see them?

[ExFlyer]

16 hours ago, Nationalist said:

It not a marginal few though.

What I find interesting is those who care seem to be less "urbanized". Less apt to be swayed by the "in" thing. The truckers, the red-necks and now...the farmers.

Ya mean city dwellers care less than country folk??

[ExFlyer]

12 hours ago, West said:

Lol... so your going with the clip from Madcow is doctored? 

WTF is a mad cow besides a pissed off bovine?? LOL

[ExFlyer]

13 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I sympathized with the truckers

but I believe that vaccine mandates are in fact constitutional

but when the government invoked martial law against a protest under false pretenses

then seized property without court order

that was treason

no quarter, no mercy, no succour for traitors against our Crown

 

Me too. I sympathized with the truckers.

If only the debacle in February were truckers, it would have been a purposeful event. Fact was, the truckers association detached themselves form what  went on. 95% of truckers 9as was state din the news) were working and did not participate.

No one seized any property. Vehicles were towed. they were given 24 hours warnings and many moved the vehicles, those that did not had them towed under existing laws and bylaws.

Banks froze some accounts by their own volition and doing so to prevent what they considered may be government actions, which did not occur. So, the banks restored the accounts.

[ExFlyer]

13 hours ago, PIK said:

Agree. If i remember Trudeau said he could do nothing about the horns, but yet a 21 yr old student went to court and stopped it. If Tru, makes you wonder if he wanted it to continue to blame it on the right.

 

The 21 year old went to court to stop the constant noismaking in the area she lived.

Trudeau did not live there and had no grounds for court action.

[Dougie93]

14 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Me too. I sympathized with the truckers.

If only the debacle in February were truckers, it would have been a purposeful event. Fact was, the truckers association detached themselves form what  went on. 95% of truckers 9as was state din the news) were working and did not participate.

No one seized any property. Vehicles were towed. they were given 24 hours warnings and many moved the vehicles, those that did not had them towed under existing laws and bylaws.

Banks froze some accounts by their own volition and doing so to prevent what they considered may be government actions, which did not occur. So, the banks restored the accounts.

there is no point in arguing with you about it

we have totally divergent views as to the nature of the constitution

but I feel no need to convince you of anything

you are entirely welcome to your views where I come from

[Dougie93]

it is not in my nature to protest

I have never attended a protest before the Freedom Convoy

the only reason being, the veterans were protesting

I didn't answer the call of the truckers

I was summoned by Veterans 4 Freedom Canada, upon them issuing a stand to

Edited August 6, 2022 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

19 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

it is not in my nature to protest

I have never attended a protest before the Freedom Convoy

the only reason being, the veterans were protesting

I didn't answer the call of the truckers

I was summoned by Veterans 4 Freedom Canada, upon them issuing a stand to

What was so remarkable to me about the protests that I saw was how friendly and multicultural they were.  I was also astonished to see pro-choice women and Christian farmers walking side by side.  I realized that our very constitutional freedoms were at stake.  This movement was not just about the disenfranchised pushing back either.  There was tremendous support from civil liberties groups and intellectuals, but supporting the movement presented real risks, as the government and state-funded media painted it as radical right wing, Trumpian, unscientific, etc.  The American left was more tuned in and knew this was no January 6 rehash.

[Dougie93]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

What was so remarkable to me about the protests that I saw was how friendly and multicultural they were.  I was also astonished to see pro-choice women and Christian farmers walking side by side.  I realized that our very constitutional freedoms were at stake.  This movement was not just about the disenfranchised pushing back either.  There was tremendous support from civil liberties groups and intellectuals, but supporting the movement presented real risks, as the government and state-funded media painted it as radical right wing, Trumpian, unscientific, etc.  The American left was more tuned in and knew this was no January 6 rehash.

indeed, it was the most unifying Canadian event in my lifetime

I had written Canada off : f*ck Canada

but Veterans 4 Freedom has restored my faith

tho, unlike the truckers, I still don't fly the Liberal Party of Canada flag

nor sing the Liberal Party of Canada song

Red Ensign & Maple Leaf Forever

GSTQ

 

[Dougie93]

and in terms of the Liberal narrative that it was all staged by Republicans

that is total nonsense

I am a Republican

all my American family & friends are Republicans

and we never saw it coming

we were inspired by it, no doubt

but also Amazed, that the Canadians would put us to shame, leading the way

[Zeitgeist]

30 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

and in terms of the Liberal narrative that it was all staged by Republicans

that is total nonsense

I am a Republican

all my American family & friends are Republicans

and we never saw it coming

we were inspired by it, no doubt

but also Amazed, that the Canadians would put us to shame, leading the way

Well as you know I was a member of the Liberal party in the Chrétien era and I had always thought the Democrats were the progressives until I saw in recent history how oppressive and elitist they are in reality.  They use progressive rhetoric but are primarily about self-preservation and squelching individual expression and freedom in general.  They have become parties of suppression.  They have empowered extreme left perspectives at the expense of the masses.  I knew we were in trouble when professors were being heckled for using the term women to refer to women, when pronouns began appearing under signature titles in my workplace and our equity officer more or less said, “Do it or else”.   When I asked whether our organization supported the statement in the land acknowledgment we were handed that demands reparations, I was told, “The elders gave us this.”   Our leaders aren’t taking stands because of fear of reputational reprisal or worse, losing their jobs.   I believe that this cowardice and social pressure has been green lighted at the top.  Trudeau is obsessed with appearing woke and progressive, but he has no clear principles guiding his views.  The rainbow flags and unquestioned support for gender transitioning are simply assigned to us.  Even religious institutions are cowed into submission.  Merit has become a secondary consideration to privileging newly appointed favoured groups.  None of this is really constitutional, but of course our PM’s government doesn’t appear to understand or respect constitutional rights.  Its reaction to the vaccine mandate protests proved this.

I see many Republicans standing up for the constitution and some conservatives in Canada and Britain doing it.  The left are mostly falling in line with an oppressive orthodoxy on climate change and woke ideas that may kill our economy and meritocracy.  The poor will fare the worst in this, as the consumption carbon taxes hit them hardest.

The Liberals and NDP are farcical hypocrites who no longer stand up for the workers they claim to support.  In fact, by and large they look down their noses at them and won’t even talk to them. 

Edited August 6, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well as you know I was a member of the Liberal party in the Chrétien era and I had always thought the Democrats were the progressives until I saw in recent history how oppressive and elitist the are in reality.  They use progressive rhetoric but are primarily about self-preservation and squelching individual expression and freedom in general.  They have become parties of suppression.  They have empowered extreme left perspectives at the expense of the masses.  I knew we were in trouble when professors were being heckled for using the term women to refer to women, when pronouns began appearing under signature titles in my workplace and our equity officer more or less said, “Do it or else”.   When I asked whether our organization supported the statement in the land acknowledgment we were handed that demands reparations, I was told, “The elders gave us this.”   Our leaders aren’t taking stands because of fear or reputational reprisal or worse, losing their jobs.   I believe that this cowardice and social pressure has been green lighted at the top.  Trudeau is obsessed with appearing woke and progressive, but he has no clear principles guiding his views.  The rainbow flags and unquestioned support for gender transitioning are simply assigned to us.  Even religious institutions are cowed into submission.  Merit has become a secondary consideration to privileging newly appointed favoured groups.  None of this is really constitutional, but of course our PM’s government doesn’t appear to understand or respect constitutional rights.  Its reaction to the vaccine mandate protests proved this.

I see many Republicans standing up for the constitution and some conservatives in Canada and Britain doing it.  The left are mostly falling in line with an oppressive orthodoxy on climate change and woke ideas that may kill our economy and meritocracy.  The poor will fare the worst in this, as the consumption carbon taxes hit them hardest.

The Liberals and NDP are farcical hypocrites who no longer stand up for the workers they claim to support.  In fact, by and large they look down their noses at them and won’t even talk to them. 

I am deeply entrenched in the American Republican Party

no exaggeration, all my Republican brethren view you as a being an heroic figure

Canadian freedom fighters are legendary in Republican ranks now

they fly the Canadian flag right beside Old Glory, in the Reddest of Red State Counties now

you will never pay for your drinks again, at the bar with Republicans

I pass to you their message : God bless you

 

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

I see many Republicans standing up for the constitution

just talking to an American Republican brother right now

he sends this to you

it's the anthem in Red State America right now

apparently some video game was making fun of Red Staters

but they've taken it on as a badge of honour

this is THE hot track with Republicans at the moment, no doubt

 

[WestCanMan]

On 8/5/2022 at 10:05 AM, ExFlyer said:

Problem? I understand the problem, it is you Ha Ha Ha.

Cannot get out from under the past. Live by yesterday.

The only thing in your life is some minor disputable event from  6 months ago.

You already, constantly, talked about it, now you can just stop boring people with your zibi crusade LOL

The problem is people like you who get sucked in by hollow MSM bullshit.

You were lied to ef.

Getting 80% 'vaxed' won't get us to herd immunity.

It won't stop you from getting infected.

Therefor it won't stop you getting sick. 

Therefor it won't stop you getting hospitalized.

Therefor it won't stop you getting sent to ICU.

Therefor it won't stop you dying. It actually didn't stop over 7,000 Canadians from dying, and that was a while ago.

Therefor it doesn't really accomplish anything, aside from maybe giving you some dangerous side effects.

Therefor people shouldn't be forced to take it.

Therefor the people who protested against pseudovax mandates were actually doing the right thing, peacefully.

Even if they were wrong, and protesting peacefully, they shouldn't have been beaten up.

But they were beaten up for peacefully protesting against a harmful pseudovax that's being forced upon Canadians by our fascist government, and that's gonna be a big deal until there's no longer a Canada.

Quote

You interjected when West was asked to prove is statement  "They said the vaxx would stop transmission which was why they forced folks out of work for being unvaxxed. " he came with an American Fox News article.

You stepped in for whatever reason and went on and on and we all know you know nothing except a mini clip of a zibi guy.

Don't help others because they can do  a lot better defending their points than you can. You only screw things up.

You are 100% wrong again ef. The discussion above was just between you and I going a long way back, and when I interjected it was actually about something that D93 said a long time ago. You can see for yourself just by clicking the back arrow in the top right corner of each quotation box. 

This new debate is apparently a merger of the two topics which were were discussing concurrently, but separately, within this thread.

When I interjected about West's Fox article in the other, separate discussion that we were having, the article was not about "They said the vaxx would stop transmission which was why they forced folks out of work for being unvaxxed ", that's a very idiotic misinterpretation of the whole story.

The Fox article said that "people on social media were angry [true] that Rachel Maddow made a bunch of claims about the pseudovax [verified by a video in his link] which turned out to be completely bogus". People want an apology or an update from Maddow on vax efficacy. That's it.

Your response to West's post basically boiled down to "Fox is poopy"; you had no counterpoints to speak of aside from that.

So where we stand on that debate is "Fox News was absolutely correct and everything that they said was verified" and your ad hominem argument was infantile and worthless. I eagerly await your next sandbox insult.

[Nationalist]

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Ya mean city dwellers care less than country folk??

I mean they have different perceptions. Public acquiescence is easier the denser the population is.

[Dougie93]

I'm both city boy & country boy

raised in Hants County Nova Scotia as a young boy

then moved to Toronto and became a 6ix God

then posted to Petawawa to become a Renfrew County Redneck

I'm perfectly comfortable in both worlds

House, Hip-Hop, Bluegrass, Country & Western

I like it all

inner city trailer park boy

 

[ExFlyer]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The problem is people like you who get sucked in by hollow MSM bullshit.

.... I eagerly await your next sandbox insult.

What a chunk of nonsensical blather. The problem is with people like you that fully accept snippets without knowing the full story as long as it fits your ideals..

You are yesterdays news, old, stale and no longer relevant.

No matter how much you try or how long the blather, it is still old and useless.

Not intended to be an insult in any way. Just take it for what it is, you are obsessed with old useless crap that has no more relevance..

But all in all, still very happy you care so much about what I think to keep responding. So touching that you care 

Edited August 6, 2022 by ExFlyer

[ExFlyer]

33 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I mean they have different perceptions. Public acquiescence is easier the denser the population is.

For sure city and country folks have different perspectives. Primarily as a result of their daily environment.

Not so sure that acquiescence is easier in a city, it is perhaps that vibrancy of the city is more immediate?

 

[Nationalist]

16 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

For sure city and country folks have different perspectives. Primarily as a result of their daily environment.

Not so sure that acquiescence is easier in a city, it is perhaps that vibrancy of the city is more immediate?

 

Perhaps I'm not sure. Here's a great article discussing this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/05/why-are-urban-rural-areas-so-politically-divided/

I suppose I use the word 'acquiescence' is that I see people in urban centers making ridiculous decisions. Take Toronto...

Traffic from hell...but we got bike lanes everywhere. 

A crosstown train line that never goes into operation. 

Shootings and stabbings nightly...but cops tell me there's not enough of them by at least half.

Our Pride Parade is an exhibition of indecent exposure and leud acts...with no cops allowed.

Regular references to 'colonialists' and 'White oppressors' in reference to rural folk and their proud heritage. 

And just how do these asinine issues arise? Because urban folk obviously think this is all OK because they keep voting for it.

 

 

[ExFlyer]

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

Perhaps I'm not sure. Here's a great article discussing this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/05/why-are-urban-rural-areas-so-politically-divided/

I suppose I use the word 'acquiescence' is that I see people in urban centers making ridiculous decisions. Take Toronto...

Traffic from hell...but we got bike lanes everywhere. 

A crosstown train line that never goes into operation. 

Shootings and stabbings nightly...but cops tell me there's not enough of them by at least half.

Our Pride Parade is an exhibition of indecent exposure and leud acts...with no cops allowed.

Regular references to 'colonialists' and 'White oppressors' in reference to rural folk and their proud heritage. 

And just how do these asinine issues arise? Because urban folk obviously think this is all OK because they keep voting for it.

 

 

Hey, you are describing Ottawa, not Toronto

I think it occurs because exurbanites are less apt to confront and publicly speak their minds less they get called out.

[Nationalist]

4 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Hey, you are describing Ottawa, not Toronto

I think it occurs because exurbanites are less apt to confront and publicly speak their minds less they get called out.

I live in Toronto. I have learned to keep my personal opinions quiet in public and at work.

It's a very sad situation for exruralites and conservatives like myself. 

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

I live in Toronto. I have learned to keep my personal opinions quiet in public and at work.

not me

I wear my heart, and my politics on my sleeve

people in Toronto never mess with me

I'm the 6ix God in their ranks

Aubrey Drake Graham just plays me on tv

so they know to part the way for me

if they hold my gaze

the down home Canadians get a friendly nod

the weak look away in the face of me